Pope turns back on congregation in old mass ritual

[Polaris]

Is there any culture that worships with their back to God?

Im not sure and I will look into it for you. I could however understand if they did because they do not feel worthy to look at God or face him.

Its all a matter of the context of the culture.

 

[DJgang]

youtube.com/watch?v=oUNfbgRJOe8

Where there is a will… there is a way.

FSSP, coming soon to a Parish near you. No excuses!

 

[Polaris]

There is a branch of the Army - astonishingly enough it is the infantry - where young officers are taught not only to turn their backs on their men but to run away from them as well. This incredible behavior is celebrated in their motto: “Follow me!”

I really don’t think we have entirely forgotten what leadership means.

Ender

This is not forgetting leadership. Leadership takes all forms. I do not think one form is superior to the other. Also the military culture is an example of a different culture.

Also this give me a wonderful example of my own cultural bias view of that comment In my mind: ( What is that leader leading them to? A place where death and destruction will occur. The lowest form of humantiy, That is at the center of conflict in my mind. To me this is the exact opposite of what will occur in the Eucharisict sacrafice. Why would they use that as an example.)

I seperate myself from those thoughts, and think (For them its honourable and good to fight in Wars and die.) I can understand why they want a leader like that and you should have access to that.

Please let me have access to my version of leader, however flawed you believe it to be because my leader is the best version I can give to my God in my culture.

 

[lizaanne]

Is there any culture that worships with their back to God?

I might be misunderstanding you - but when the priest faces the altar with his back to the congregation, he IS facing God! The priest never puts his back toward God.

Or am I confused?

~Liza

 

[didymus]

I might be misunderstanding you - but when the priest faces the altar with his back to the congregation, he IS facing God! The priest never puts his back toward God.

Or am I confused?

~Liza

the whole “priest turning his back to the people” thing is bogus"

From Catholic World News

Pope celebrates Mass ad orientem, speaks on Baptism

baptized 13 infants, the children of Vatican employees, in keeping with a Vatican tradition on the feast of the Baptism of Christ.
The Holy Father used the ad orientem posture, facing in the same direction as the congregation, using the magnificent altar of the Sistine Chapel rather than portable altar that had been set up in previous years. This provoked widespread comment, with many journalists reporting that the Pope had revived an old liturgical tradition. (In fact, the ad orientem posture was never abolished.)

 

[Joans_Soldier]

I agree with didymus. It is bogus. SIMPLE AS THAT! When a priest is praying to God, in the Old Rite, he faced God. Why? I believe that you look at someone when you talk to them. I do that to everyone I talk to. When you want to insult someone when talking to them, you turn your back on them. This is common in MY culture. And I know that it is common in others. When I go to church to pray to God, I face the alter, not to face the priest, but to face God. I have zero interest in the priest facing me or me facing him as I know that he is praying to God. He is leading us in prayer. It’s been rumored that God is in the Tabernacle which used to be located over the Alter where the Sacrifice took place. I say rumored because the New Rite does not manifest it’s philosophy in practice concerning God and the Tabernacle with it’s current practice of the priest having his back to the God. The Tabernacle is usually located off to the side somewhere away from the center where the priest is now located. I DO NOT buy into this kind of behavior. It was stuff like this that made me push away from the church when I was a kid. I have never felt insulted when the priest turns his back to me BECUASE HE IS NEVER TALKING TO ME! I"M NOT GOD! In the times that the priest is talking to the congregation in the Old Rite, the priest faces the people as when he says “Dominus Vobiscum”. May the Lord be with you. Then when he is praying to God, he faces the tabernacle which is over the alter which is where the sacrifice takes place. HE IS NOT FACING ME! As you can tell I am and and Old Rite Catholic in communion with Rome. One can argue back and forth concerning the legality of whether this is correct or not, but in the end if you cannot practice what you preach towards your fellow man, then the argument is bogus. God is a sentient being that demands our respect. If I show more respect to a perfect stranger by facing them when I talk to them but I don’t show that same courtesy towards God when talking to him, then I’m a hypocrite. And I DO NOT believe that my culture has the answer as to how I am to reference God. This is essentially wrong. My God is my God. Just like I do not greet and treat my Father the same way I do my friends, I do not treat my God the same way I do anyone else on Earth. Everyone has their way of being treated according to what their place is in our lives. God in my life demands my respect, attention and SUBMISSION. And even if this were true, then the priest has to face the Alter in most Western Cultures since having your back to the person you are facing is an insult.

 

[Joans_Soldier]

I apologize if my last post seemed angry or insulting. I get a bit worked up sometimes. Again, I apologize.

 

[manualman]

Polaris, what culture are you a part of? What cultural need or value makes the priest facing the congregation superior?

You mentioned the image of the Eucharist held high in the center as a superior image, but I can’t agree? The center of WHAT? Only the priest is on the other side. Is the image intended to reinforce the separation of the priest from the layman? How is one man on one side and 800 on the other placing the host in the “center?” IMO, it’s not.

Turning the priest around was a bad idea rooted in the narcissitic individualism that plagues our culture (Western). In the AO liturgy, the priest is clearly one of us (if at the head), leading us and with us as we face God together. True, we can’t see his face when he prays the words of consecration. How appropriate! A much needed reminder that we are not the center of the universe, not an audience at a show and not the customers being served by the priest. If people in our culture are offended by the priest turning his back on them, I think that offense stems not from an objective cultural norm, but a prevailing character flaw in our culture! Namely pride.

How sad that the very time when microphones and sound systems finally removed the ONE legitimate objection to AO (can’t hear him!), it was abandoned in favor of a symbolically much inferior method. I hope the example catches on!

For the record, I’m not exactly a Traditionalist. I LIKE the use of vernacular (though I wish that every mass retained SOME latin elements), I LIKE receiving in both species, I even like (gasp) some guitar music at mass! I just think liturgy ought to convey the proper message and emphasis. And the current practice turns mass into theater.

 

[Leopard]

Oh, yeah? My cathedral was one of the first to be renovated after V II. The altar is thrust quite forward in the sanctuary and the bishop’s cathedra is directly behind the altar. The pre-V II gothic altar was ripped out. I doubt if there is sufficent room in front of the altar to celebrate Mass ad orientum.

I would concur with this. In my parish, while there is room in front of the altar for the celebrant to stand, it would not be advisable for altar servers, deacons or other persons to try to move around there with him, or else it is very possible that somebody will trip down the sanctuary steps.

 

[surfinpure]

I can picture an old headline:

"Pope Turns Back on God in New Mass Ritual"