Pope under attack already!

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I don’t have a good answer. My father is not Catholic…I would like to share my faith with him, however, this issue of the sex abuse scandal is a impassable roadblock. I’m sure this issue is a roadblock to countless other Catholics who want to share our faith with others.

I would like to hear how others deal with this.
 
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shockerfan:
I don’t have a good answer. My father is not Catholic…I would like to share my faith with him, however, this issue of the sex abuse scandal is a impassable roadblock. I’m sure this issue is a roadblock to countless other Catholics who want to share our faith with others.

I would like to hear how others deal with this.
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The so-called leader of the Jews dying a humiliating and gruesome death on the cross and all His apostles except John being martyred was an impassable roadblock. This issue is just like all other media attacks on the Church. Hey, what do you know? The Church has sinners. The Church is not about being sinless. It is about providing a way for sinners to become saints. No other church, organization, or philosophy provides this way and all of them have equal or more levels of sin and depravity.
 
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shockerfan:
I don’t have a good answer. My father is not Catholic…I would like to share my faith with him, however, this issue of the sex abuse scandal is a impassable roadblock. I’m sure this issue is a roadblock to countless other Catholics who want to share our faith with others.

I would like to hear how others deal with this.
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My simple, short, but effective response is this:

“Are you following man or are you following Christ?”
 
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Brad:
My simple, short, but effective response is this:

“Are you following man or are you following Christ?”
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Brad, I like your responses. I have used the one above before. Do you think its possible to address the issue of sex abuse in a forthright, upfront manner, and be able to move on to faith related issues? Or do you think its better to just address it with the responses you have provided. I just don’t want to seem like I’m avoiding the issue with people who bring it up.

Thanks,

Shockerfan
 
For my non-Catholic family, the abuse scandle slammed the door on any reasonable discussion of my faith. Now, I seldom ever bring it up but yesterday, when I told one that I’d been invited to join the pastoral council at my parish, she, whom I love with my entire heart, said, “so how do you like your nazi Pope?”.
When I began explaining PBXVI to her, she became more aggressive saying, “you think you know everything from your “inside” Catholic view, but you don’t!” There was more in that nasty vein but she cut me off and hung up.
She breaks my heart.
I feel so blindsided and sad today.
 
This article sounds bad, but I just don’t trust the media on church related issues, since most are secular leftists out to attack the Catholic Church at every opportunity.
 
People will say anything…and this document (which is supposedly an internal one) does not IMO attempt to hide anything but speaks of a church seeking (just like the early church in almost all of the epistles) to deal with sin among its members.

Those who have such “serious issues” with the church over this scandal (and I am not attempting to minimize it at all) willfully choose to ignore the rest of the 47,000 priests that are doing it right 24/7/365. It’s a very narrow minded “roadblock” IMO because they choose to allow it to separate them from the church which has the fullness of truth.

I don’t care what human failings surface in the church…I am a Catholic heart and soul, and I follow it because I KNOW that it’s teachings are true and that all the rest are not. I follow Truth at all costs and not the other humans who may or may not be the best examples of that faith. If Catholicism is true then once a person realizes that they have a moral obligation to follow and adhere to that truth or else they are not honest seekers of truth. Jesus is the truth. And the church that He founded is the pillar and ground of that truth. Anything else is error…it’s really that simple.

This article on the CA ma(name removed by moderator)age should be printed out and handed to every soul who feels they have this insurmountable roadblock. It’s important that we speak the truth in love about this mess and know why we carry on as faithful Catholics. When the enemy comes in like a flood…
Pax vobiscum,
catholic.com/library/A_Crisis_of_Saints.asp
 
this man has been under attack for the past 20 years, i am sure he has strong enough shoulders to carry the burden, obviously the Holy Ghost thought he did…👍
 
It asserted the church’s right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors and keep the evidence confidential for up to 10 years after the victims reached adulthood. The letter was signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected as John Paul II’s successor last week.
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Is this excerpt taken out of context? We don’t know. This letter was not intended for the general public. Since it is not clear how they “obtained” this letter and we are only seeing the parts of it they want us to see, I think that is a distinct possibility. I would imagine it was more intended to protect victims’ identities than obstruct justice. It would also give the Church time to investigate matters and make sure that the allegations were warranted.

Besides, how do we know that *all * the accusations are true? The Church should be able to look into these matters internally without being overrun by secular institutions who are only too happy to jump on board the “bash the catholic church” wagon. Perhaps some parents fabricated reports after they heard about the scandal, and jumped on board. Waiting until a child is legally an adult would give them time to recant their parents’ accusations once they are finally able to represent themselves. It would also protect the victims from media scrutiny and from subjecting kids to a media circus.
The letter, ‘concerning very grave sins’, was sent from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican office that once presided over the Inquisition and was overseen by Ratzinger.
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Do you see how these people work? They had to insert the word “inquisition” to bias people against the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Ratzinger’s letter states that the church can claim jurisdiction in cases where abuse has been ‘perpetrated with a minor by a cleric’.
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People hate to admit that the Catholic Church might have the authority to look into matters that pertain to itself.
If you can manage to keep it secret for 18 years plus 10 the priest will get away with it,’ Shea added.
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So now there were victims of abuse before birth? Resulting in 18 + 10 years of secrecy? Stupid statements like this point to the agenda of the author.
 
The Church has always investigated such matters behind closed doors to protect both the accuser and the accused from civil authorities that might hostile to the Church or from scandal for all concerned. Such cases have always been considered an internal matter.

Cardinal Ratzinger did not tell the bishops to reassign priests to other dioceses nor not listen to claimants nor break any laws. If people took it outside the Church in order to sue the Church for all they could get, the Church has no other recourse than to hire lawyers to defend itself.
 
From what I recall, those so-called documents that the Church released concerning the order to remain secret about sex abuse claims only had to do with claims made known through the SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION, where no matter what, the priest was bound to secrecy of the confessor and Cardinal Ratzinger and the Church insisted that anything related to this sacrament remain secret and handled by the Church. It’s a very hard position to maintain in this respect but that’s the problem. The Guardian reported about this too in a statement by a vatican official concerning the documents. Unless I’m mistaken…
 
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shockerfan:
Brad, I like your responses. I have used the one above before. Do you think its possible to address the issue of sex abuse in a forthright, upfront manner, and be able to move on to faith related issues? Or do you think its better to just address it with the responses you have provided. I just don’t want to seem like I’m avoiding the issue with people who bring it up.

Thanks,

Shockerfan
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I would address it if it comes up. I’d use the faith responses first. The reason being is that faith transcends humanity and it’s sinfulness. None of us can deny sin exists in us and around us.

However, if it comes up, I always recommend forthrightness. The scandal is a terrible thing. Sexual abuse is always a terrible thing, a crime and a terrible sin. There is no excusing such behavior or any covering up thereof. Be careful to distinguish between pedophilia and homosexuality of which the latter made up more than 80%. Also, be careful to note that the level of abuse is less than what you would find in any other organization of similar size that connects adults and young adults and children.

The bottom line is that this issue can easily be used as an “out” in considering the Church. It’s important to keep the focus on faith. It is either the one true Church or it is not. The fact that there are sinners in the Church has no bearing on this question. The fruits of Satan exist in all parts of the world and he will attack those that stand for truth the most.
 
I did some searching in an effort to see if I could find a copy of Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter. I gave up after a few minutes when I found the following

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_36_39/ai_106914815

I only read it quickly and someone else can post the entire article if they’d like. Two points that show how biased this article is:
  1. The requirement of secrecy was not Cardinal Ratzinger’s own doing. He cited as a footnote the existing requirement established in 1962!
  2. There are legitimate reasons for the secrecy that are not mentioned in the original article cited in the orignal post of this thread. For instance…
…secrecy in canonical cases serves three purposes. First, it is designed to allow witnesses and other parties to speak freely, knowing that their responses will be confidential. Second, it allows the accused party to protect his good name until guilt is established. Third, it allows victims to come forward without exposing themselves to publicity. The high degree of secrecy in Crimen Sollicitationis was also related to the fact that it dealt with the confessional.
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The Guardian biased? Be still my beating heart. HarveyC thanks for the clarification. Journalism or what passes for journalism these days is getting more and more disgraceful. People used to joke about the Russian newspaper that was called “Truth” as everyone knew it was mostly propaganda. I don’t suppose the Guardian will expand on the facts that get in the way of a good story.

Lisa N
 
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harveyc:
I did some searching in an effort to see if I could find a copy of Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter. I gave up after a few minutes when I found the following
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That’s great Harvey thanks! 👍
 
Of course these things should be investigated in secret. This protects both the accused and accuser.

The Church did suffer some credibility by keeping priests known to have abused. These should have been removed. It’s nearly impossible to justify these actions, but as has already been said, the vast majority of priests don’t commit these sins.

No group, or religion, would survive if everyone is guilty of the crimes/sins of the worst members.
 
New Rules Give Vatican Responsibility For Certain Clerical Discipline

Jan. 07, 2002

VATICAN, Jan 7, 02 (CWNews.com) - Pope John Paul II has issued a new policy document, giving the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith responsibility for handling the discipline of priests who commit “grave offenses” against the sacraments or the sexual abuse of children.

The policy is set out in a “motu proprio,” which was published today in Acta Apostolica Sedes, the official annals of the Holy See. The four-page document, written in Latin and entitled “Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela,” is dated May 19, 2001, and has already been conveyed to all the world’s bishops by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The motu proprio has the effect of changing certain aspects of Canon Law, giving new authority to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. That Congregation is authorized to respond to cases in which priests commit any of certain specific offenses. The offenses listed-- eight in number-- concern the Eucharist, the sacrament of Penance, and immoral behavior.

The listed offenses against the Eucharist include disrespectful treatment of the sacred species, “concelebrating” with an individual who is not an ordained Catholic priest, or celebrating Mass for sacrilegious purposes. Offenses against Penance include using the sacrament as a pretext for soliciting sexual partners, and violating the seal of confession. Another category of “grave offenses” is “sin against the 6th Commandment committed with a minor of less than 18 years.”

When these offenses are reported, Cardinal Ratzinger informs the world’s bishops and religious superiors that they should conduct an investigation of the charges, and also notify the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The disciplinary response is reserved to that Vatican body. The Vatican will maintain records of all such disciplinary cases for 10 years, except in pedophilia cases, for which the files will remain open for 18 years. The purpose of the new disciplinary policy, Cardinal Ratzinger explains in a letter accompanying the motu proprio, is “not only to avoid these grave sins but also to protect the sanctity of the clergy and the faithful through the necessary sanctions and pastoral care.”

Source : cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=17156
 
Observe This!

(Jimmy Akin)

The British “newspaper” The Observer tells us the following:

Pope ‘obstructed’ sex abuse inquiry

*Confidential letter reveals Ratzinger ordered bishops to keep allegations secret *

Jamie (“I’m too unqualified to hold my job”) Doward, religious affairs correspondent

Sunday April 24, 2005

Pope Benedict XVI faced irresponsible know-nothing claims last night he had ‘obstructed justice’ after it emerged he issued an order ensuring the church’s investigations into child sex abuse claims be carried out in secret. The order was made in a confidentialpublicly available letter, obtained in a death-defying feat of investigative journalism by The Observer by downloading it from the Vatican’s web site where it has been available for years HERE, YOU MORONS], which was sent to every Catholic bishop in May 2001 before the U.S. sex scandal even broke out.

It asserted the church’s right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors (gasp! next they’ll be wanting grand juries to do that!) and keep the evidence confidential for up to 10 years after the victims reached adulthoodwhereas what we all know they should do is put the inquiries on CourtTV and hold regular press conferences and put all the humiliating charges and counter-charges out in public so we can sell more newspapers and have a media feeding frenzy and ruin the reputations of all involved by humiliating both innocent victims and priests who have been falsely accused. The letter was signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected as John Paul II’s successor last week. (Dum! Dum! Dum!)

Please pay no attention to the fact that the document was part of the implementation effort for a set of norms that Pope John Paul II *himself *had just enacted nineteen days earlier in a letter HERE/TRANSLATION WITH NORMS APPENDED], so Ratzinger was just doing what his boss told him to do. That shouldn’t get in the way of a good smear on the new pope.

Ambulance-chasing Lawyers acting for abuse victims claim without any foundation it was designed to prevent the allegations from becoming public knowledge or being investigated by the police. They accuse Ratzinger of committing a ‘clear obstruction of justice’. Yes! By saying that the Church’s own internal investigation is to be secret, that totally prevents victims from contacting the police and reporting what happened to them. It stops them from obtaining their own civil legal representation. And it stops them from holding press conferences and explaining what happened. You can’t have both a closed-door internal Church investigation and a civil investigation at the same time. Everybody knows that.

The letter, ‘concerning very grave sins’, was sent from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican office that once presided over the Inquisition</irrelevant historical smear> and was overseen by Ratzinger.

to be continued…
 
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