Pope voices hopes for change in another lengthy interview [CWN]

[Abba]

Stop doing what in the Pro-Life movement? Elaborate.

Clarification: Are there any Pro-Lifers to speak out there? This question is for those actively currently involved in the Pro-Life efforts in the Catholic Faith.

Actually, Bro JR works in pro-life. He has established a Franciscan apostolate ( I think that is what it is called, well, an organization) that is dedicated to pro-life. He has written some wonderful posts on this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11261406#post11261406 You may want to read them.

Peace

 

[KrazyKat]

Hi,
Well, I am not going to speculate about what Pope Francis is going to do exactly but we don’t need to jump the gun and consider that because he was a colleague of Martini that he is considering what Martini wrote. I humbly think, KrazyKat, that the fact the Pope said he is not going to make the focus of his papacy the pro-life movement and homosexuality, it does not necessarily follow that he may do all the sorts of things people are speculating about. Such as, for instance, what Martini wrote. Let’s relax and pray the Holy Spirit guides our Pope. Keep in mind that a lot of people are criticizing him and feeding the frenzy for their own reasons.

Our faith teaches us that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit. Pope Francis is not being guided by the spirit of Martini. Yes, he is a man and he has been influenced by other men in his thoughts and actions just like every other human being. However, he is also the Pope and I trust and have GREAT faith that he is being guided by the Holy Spirit.

I would not focus so much in the things of this world, I would not think that Martini is the influence of our Pope. We have to rise above that and consider how he is living and implementing the Gospel not the ideologies of someone called Martini.

Matthew 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[a] I will build my church, and the gates of hell** shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[c] in heaven.”**

Thanks for your concern. I dislike quotes that are taken from Wikipedia, we all know how quotes get twisted. As for Pope Francis I do not have a problem understanding his message, I was elated when he was elected Pope and that has not changed.

 

[sisblessed]

A lot of the criticism about the Pope is coming from those that worked in Pro-life. It only demonstrates that the Pope is right. I for one will follow the Pope, even if he tells me to stop doing something I find enriching and fulfilling. And, I will most certainly with God’s help not go around criticizing him because he took my candy away.

He is not Pro-Abortion or Pro-homosexuality and he has not said for people to stop working on making others aware of how wrong abortion is. What he has said is that he is going to focus on other things. And, yes, something about an ‘obsession’ which I agree with also.

Actually, Bro JR works in pro-life. He has established a Franciscan apostolate ( I think that is what it is called, well, an organization) that is dedicated to pro-life. He has written some wonderful posts on this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11261406#post11261406 You may want to read them.

Peace

Peace also. The part about “candy” you wrote concerning Pro-Life hurt and was divisive.

I just came from Mass and Christ quietly spoke to me that He, Christ Jesus, is the Head of the Holy Catholic Church. (as you know also) This was very comforting. I will be watching closely that the Holy Catholic Church stays true to Her Christian Teachings. The Holy Spirit protects Her.

Does anyone know of some Pro-Life Catholic websites discussing Catholic news?

• Please provide links. Thanks!

 

[JReducation]

Original article:
repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/

Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
“Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. **We have to encourage people **to move towards what they think is Good.” by Pope Francis

Does this sound like relativism? What about Absolute Truth?

Regardless of what people think, Christ who is God and the ultimate Good is the only answer.

There are some important details here. The first is that this statement is not contrary to doctrine. If you look in the CCC, you’ll find that
**
1777 Moral conscience, present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil. It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.**

To direct someone to conscience is really to point him in a direction where he can hear God.

In addition, the reported has already said that he wrote his article from memory. He did not take notes and did not record the conversation. If this is true, this explains some other details that seem strange. The other point that we must remember is that the Holy Father did not invite this man in order to convert him. He invited this man, because the man said that he would like to meet the Holy Father. From the beginning, this was an informal conversation, not a rewriting of the CCC.

Why is it always someone else’s fault they don’t understand Pope Francis? Can he articulate clearly enough? hmmm.

Why are you jumping all over everyone? If you’re that hostile, then you need to back away from this whole discussion. It would seem that the enemy is taking advantage of your feelings. This can happen to the best of us. We we are truly silent in the inner most part of our soul, nothing that we read in a journal or hear on TV can shatter that silence or disturb that peace. I know this from experience as well.

The controversy and confusion is out of control.

There are individuals who are out of control. I deal with hundreds of Catholics every week. Only one person has brought this up. I clarified for him as I am clarifying for you. He left in peace. Today is Respect Life Sunday. We have had activities from 7:00 AM until 7:00 PM tonight. No one seems concerned about this. Everyone is focussing on the present moment.

A lot of the criticism about the Pope is coming from those that worked in Pro-life. It only demonstrates that the Pope is right.

Let’s make a distinction here. A lot of this criticism may be coming from people who work in pro-life ministries, but it is not coming from a lot of people, just a few who are rather loud.

He is not Pro-Abortion or Pro-homosexuality and he has not said for people to stop working on making others aware of how wrong abortion is. What he has said is that he is going to focus on other things. And, yes, something about an ‘obsession’ which I agree with also.

This man has a history of fighting the culture of death. For anyone to think that he woke up and changed his mind is insane. He told the Jesuit newspaper that he is aware that he speaks very little on this subject; but that everyone knows that the Church has spoken clearly on this. He said that he is a son of the Church. In simple words, “Don’t ask me for answers that the Church has already given you; because as a son of the Church I have nothing new to add.” That would be my understanding if someone said that to me.

 

[JReducation]

Stop doing what in the Pro-Life movement? Elaborate.

Clarification: Are there any Pro-Lifers to speak out there? This question is for those actively currently involved in the Pro-Life efforts in the Catholic Faith.

I am the coordinator of a diocesan ministry to expectant father for a very large Archdiocese. How can I help you?

Those of us who run pro-life ministries are not rattled at all by the Holy Father’s words.

I’m also the superior of a small Franciscan community, Franciscan Brothers of Life. We’re not rattled by this at all. We sat at our last community meeting reading all of the negative comments being made about this and we were in awe. None of our brothers could find what people were seeing. All of our brothers have advanced degrees in theology and secular sciences. They’re not dumb men. They know how to read.

The worse that they could find was that the Holy Father’s statement was not well planned not that it had anything contrary to the pro-life message or contrary to the faith. It was the kind of statement that one makes when one is blindsided with a question.

Just for the record, we brothers agree that some people are obsessed with abortion, contraception and gay-marriage. Here’s our reasoning. If you look at the press, very little of what the Church says about the hungry, the homeless or about peace is important to the media. If the Church speaks on these issues, it makes headlines.

If we look at the extreme right wing Catholic, anything that has to do with hunger, homelessness, violence, immigration, human trafficking or ecumenism is dismissed as not important or as temporal. But when these subjects come up, these Catholics are all over it. They don’t stop to think that to save the life of an unborn child so that you can blow his head off with shrapnel is inconsistent. We have to speak about the welfare of man from the womb to the tomb.

The extreme liberal Catholic is only concerned about “bringing the Church up to speed” on these issues in order to “help her catch up with the times” Speak to them about dogma, virtue, worship, contemplation and they’re too busy with social service.

Anyone who falls into any of these three groups is obsessing over these three issues and missing out on the wonder of Catholicism.

Does anyone know of some Pro-Life Catholic websites discussing Catholic news?

• Please provide links. Thanks!

Everyone should check this one out.

priestsforlife.org/library/4786-no-the-pope-is-not-diluting-the-anti-abortion-focus-of-the-church

and

priestsforlife.org/library/4787-i-am-not-alarmed-by-the-popes-interview

 

[StMartinTours]

I have just read the original Italian of the interview, and I wanted to point out another mistranslation. Where the English has Pope Francis’ reply as:

“Yes, that is the purpose of our mission: to identify the material and immaterial needs of the people and try to meet them as we can.”

“Mission” should have been translated as “missions” (missioni in the Italian). Thus, the pope was clearly talking of the missionary activity of the Church, and not the Church’s overall “mission”.

 

[Abba]

Does anyone know of some Pro-Life Catholic websites discussing Catholic news?

• Please provide links. Thanks!

This is a Pro-Life Catholic website in where Catholic news is discussed. Are you looking for a group of Pro-life advocates who feel the Pope does not appreciate them (due to their own misunderstanding) and are ready to form some kind of group to attack the Pope throughout his Papacy or create a schismatic group? You are not going to find that at least not within the Church. You are not going to find that in this website because it would not be tolerated from what I have experienced here.

sisblessed, I think that you are misunderstanding the Pope. You know, I watch the Angelus this morning (it was in Italian and I only caught abut 60% of what he said) but it was quite a contrast from how he is being presented by some as a relativist, confusing etc…

What I find confusing is the position of some people against the Pope as there is no logic behind it and no serious reason. I also watched the video of his visit to Assisi and he is a wonderful Pope. Don’t miss out on the joy and blessing God has given us with this Pope.

Already, he has me working hard and question my own way of life and my priorities with the guidance of Pope Francis I hope to continue to grow in my faith and spiritually.

Peace

P.s. A reporter asked Father Pavone something about if he felt that he was going to be eliminated (seriously paraphrasing here) and Father Pavone said that he had given a presentation at the Vatican and he had no problem nor was he forbidden to do so. The question does not even have to be asked. The Pope is not saying that abortion is okay and to each his own. He is just not going to make it a focus of his papacy. He wants to address other issues.

 

[JReducation]

This is a Pro-Life Catholic website in where Catholic news is discussed. Are you looking for a group of Pro-life advocates who feel the Pope does not appreciate them (due to their own misunderstanding) and are ready to form some kind of group to attack the Pope throughout his Papacy or create a schismatic group? You are not going to find that at least not within the Church. You are not going to find that in this website because it would not be tolerated from what I have experienced here.

sisblessed, I think that you are misunderstanding the Pope. You know, I watch the Angelus this morning (it was in Italian and I only caught abut 60% of what he said) but it was quite a contrast from how he is being presented by some as a relativist, confusing etc…

What I find confusing is the position of some people against the Pope as there is no logic behind it and no serious reason. I also watched the video of his visit to Assisi and he is a wonderful Pope. Don’t miss out on the joy and blessing God has given us with this Pope.

Already, he has me working hard and question my own way of life and my priorities with the guidance of Pope Francis I hope to continue to grow in my faith and spiritually.

Peace

P.s. A reporter asked Father Pavone something about if he felt that he was going to be eliminated (seriously paraphrasing here) and Father Pavone said that he had given a presentation at the Vatican and he had no problem nor was he forbidden to do so. The question does not even have to be asked. The Pope is not saying that abortion is okay and to each his own. He is just not going to make it a focus of his papacy. He wants to address other issues.

Just to piggyback on what you said, I provided two links to Priests for Life, the largest Catholic Pro Life organization in the US, maybe the world. Coincidentally, there is a letter by Father Frank Pavone. He was with the Holy Father when the Holy Father made that comment. Father explains why he agrees with the comment. It’s the same reason that the rest of us in pro-life work agree with it. I don’t expect to find orthodox Catholics opposing the pope.

If one goes to the Vatican’s website www.vatican.va there is a section where one can find the pope’s talks. There is a talk that he gave to the Catholic Medical Association in late September. It was about the association’s moral obligation to defend life.

 

[anthonymarie]

I don’t know why people are making such a big deal over contradicting a pope over something. He’s not a re-incarnation of Christ, he’s a fallible man. In his book Jesus of Nazareth, Pope Benedict said:

It goes without saying this book is in no way an exercise of the magisterium, but is solely an expression of my personal search “for the face of the Lord” (cf. Ps 27:8). Everyone is free, then, to contradict me.

Pretty sure Pope Benedict’s book was better thought out than many of Pope Francis’ comments and we are “free … to contradict” it so I’m pretty sure we are “free … to contradict” these comments if we so choose (in fact, I would argue, “it goes without saying”).

St Paul talks openly to the Galatians about how he contradicted Peter over something and Bishop Challoner comments (in his notes) that it is not only ok but sometimes right to contradict a pope.

The biggest danger in the coming months (in my opinion) is good (although perhaps a little scrupulous) Catholics falling into the trap of thinking: a pope couldn’t possibly say anything wrong, and yet he has, so we have arrived at a sort of reductio ad absurdum. I know a Catholic who is already thinking of leaving the Church because he thinks the whole belief system is about to collapse from a theoretical standpoint.

The pope CAN make mistakes. The self appointed swiss guard who feel the need to defend anything and everything the pope says have the potential to cause harm to a person’s faith. We are seeing reports now that the vatican has claimed elements of the interview were exaggerated as Scalfari never took a recording or even notes! That could mean that numerous self appointed defenders of the pope have been defending comments that even the vatican (quite possibly the pope himself) would not defend. How ironic is that?

 

[Oren]

I don’t know why people are making such a big deal over contradicting a pope over something. He’s not a re-incarnation of Christ, he’s a fallible man. In his book Jesus of Nazareth, Pope Benedict said:

Pretty sure Pope Benedict’s book was better thought out than many of Pope Francis’ comments and we are “free … to contradict” it so I’m pretty sure we are “free … to contradict” these comments if we so choose (in fact, I would argue, “it goes without saying”).

St Paul talks openly to the Galatians about how he contradicted Peter over something and Bishop Challoner comments (in his notes) that it is not only ok but sometimes right to contradict a pope.

The biggest danger in the coming months (in my opinion) is good (although perhaps a little scrupulous) Catholics falling into the trap of thinking: a pope couldn’t possibly say anything wrong, and yet he has, so we have arrived at a sort of reductio ad absurdum. I know a Catholic who is already thinking of leaving the Church because he thinks the whole belief system is about to collapse from a theoretical standpoint.

The pope CAN make mistakes. The self appointed swiss guard who feel the need to defend anything and everything the pope says have the potential to cause harm to a person’s faith. We are seeing reports now that the vatican has claimed elements of the interview were exaggerated as Scalfari never took a recording or even notes! That could mean that numerous self appointed defenders of the pope have been defending comments that even the vatican (quite possibly the pope himself) would not defend. How ironic is that?

Yeah, I’m getting really tired of it. Not everything a Pope does and says is good! Him declaring himself humble is not a good thing.

 

[Brendan]

There are some important details here. The first is that this statement is not contrary to doctrine. If you look in the CCC, you’ll find that
**
1777 Moral conscience, present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil. It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.**

To direct someone to conscience is really to point him in a direction where he can hear God.

In addition, the reported has already said that he wrote his article from memory. He **did not take notes and did not record the conversation. If this is true, this explains some other details that seem strange. ** The other point that we must remember is that the Holy Father did not invite this man in order to convert him. He invited this man, because the man said that he would like to meet the Holy Father. From the beginning, this was an informal conversation, not a rewriting of the CCC…

That is my hope as well. I fully understand the point about conscience, but that is not what came across in the interview. Without an explanation of conscience being a function of the intellect (and thus the reference to thought), the statement “We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good.” has definite implications of moral relativity to a secular audience.

In the context of a discussion with those with the necessary philosophical knowledge, the statement is fully in accord with Church teaching, but I really questioned the wisdom of using such terminology in an informal conversation.

Perhaps it is both the engineer and the Dominican in me, but I do like to clarify terms when I am discussing the finer points of a topic, especially when there is a disparity of depth of knowledge in the subject.

I had sincerely hoped the statement involved a translation error of some type, but the revelation that the interview transcript relied solely on the memory of the journalist reassured me.

 

[Abba]

Benedict wrote the first draft of it, and Francis completed it. This completed the trilogy on the virtues that Benedict started with encyclicals Deus Caritas Est and Spe Salvi.

Here’s an article, an overview, that explains.
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/07/05/lumen-fidei-an-overview-of-pope-franciss-first-encyclical/

Thanks for the link, I’ll read it and the three encyclicals.

 

[Origen52]

That is my hope as well. I fully understand the point about conscience, but that is not what came across in the interview. Without an explanation of conscience being a function of the intellect (and thus the reference to thought), the statement “We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good.” has definite implications of moral relativity to a secular audience.

In the context of a discussion with those with the necessary philosophical knowledge, the statement is fully in accord with Church teaching, but I really questioned the wisdom of using such terminology in an informal conversation.

Perhaps it is both the engineer and the Dominican in me, but I do like to clarify terms when I am discussing the finer points of a topic, especially when there is a disparity of depth of knowledge in the subject.

** I had sincerely hoped the statement involved a translation error of some type, but the revelation that the interview transcript relied solely on the memory of the journalist reassured me**.

I don’t want to encourage this thread, or fan the flames of people’s apprehension about what Pope Francis has said or not said. But I strongly believe that the facts of any situation must be respected. Mr. Scalfari’s article might not have been based on tapes, or transcripts, but it is still posted on the Vatican site, under the heading “speeches” for October. This leads one to assume that his holiness and Vatican personnel are satisfied with the article’s veracity. I did notice that it is provided only in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese.

 

[Slaney]

I’m fine with this interview, and I know what he means when he says he’s uncomfortable with clericalism.

Mark 10:41 And the ten hearing it, began to be much displeased at James and John. [42] But Jesus calling them, said to them: You know that they who seem to rule over the Gentiles, lord it over them: and their princes have power over them. [43] But it is not so among you: but whosoever will be greater, shall be your minister. [44] And whosoever will be first among you, shall be the servant of all. [45] For the Son of man also is not come to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a redemption for many.