Pope Wants Sunday As Day of Rest Starting in 2011

[TruthWave]

:yawn: Same old, same old with you SDAs.

There’s plenty of scripture that shows why the Lord’s day for Christians is Sunday and not Saturday, not the least of which is that we are no longer Jews, and haven’t been for 2,000 years. SDA are pretty much the modern judaizers.

But hey, let’s just take a look at the scriptures that will show you are dead wrong.

Matthew 28:[1] Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Mag’dalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulchre.

Mark 16:[2] And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen.

and [9] Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

Luke 24:[1] But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had prepared.

John 20:[1] Now on the first day of the week Mary Mag’dalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

and 19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

What is it that Christians celebrate on the Lord’s day and Jews do not? That’s right, the resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ, not the Jewish sabbath.Typical anti-Catholic SDA propaganda. Nothing new there. The bad news is that no one is “lobbying” any such thing in the EU or anywhere else, though you SDAs dearly wish we would. It is a teaching, and nothing more and no one anywhere has even hinted that we seek any such laws, though as I said before, the SDAs desperately wish we would, so their false prophecies might appear to have some validity. It hasn’t happened and it’s not gonna happen, so you guys wasted your effort trying to make that Zenit article work for you.

While we’re on the subject of SDA false prophets and their prophecies…How many times now have you guys predicted the day and time of Christ’s return and been dead wrong?

Is it 2…or 3 times now?

Let’s take a look at what the Word of God actually says about such false prophets and their prophecies, shall we?

Deuteronomy 18:21] And if you say in your heart, `How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ –
22] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.

You probably don’t wanna read verse 20 of that chapter.

(Cont’d)

What explodes all of the texts that you quoted is the fact that the Roman Catholic Church admits that the change of the Sabbath was based on church tradition, not Scripture. If you look at the Catholic Catechism it clearly points out that the 10 Commandments are binding on Catholics and for that matter every human being. Therefore, it that be the case then all 10 Commandments are still in force including the Sabbath Commandment, as it is moral in nature dealing with our relation to God himself. The texts that you quoted contain no “smoking gun” text that does away with the Sabbath Commandment. If God were to change his holy law, he would make it clear in no uncertain terms, not leave the change to fickleness of churchmen. The fact is that the disciple kept the Sabbath after Jesus was crucified, if there was a change it didn’t come from Jesus or the Apostles because they continued to keep the Sabbath as recorded in the scores of Sabbath worship events noted in the book of Acts.

 

[Shiranui117]

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but IIRC, the Church has always held that the Sabbath is Saturday. The Sabbath did not change. What DID change was the day of worship, as we celebrate Christ’s Resurrection on Sunday. St. Paul made it quite clear that no Resurrection=no Christianity.

That being said, can someone point a newbie Catholic to where it says the Sabbath changed? I don’t recall the modern Catechism saying it did; the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are two entirely different entities, and neither was replaced.

 

[clmowry]

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but IIRC, the Church has always held that the Sabbath is Saturday. The Sabbath did not change. What DID change was the day of worship, as we celebrate Christ’s Resurrection on Sunday. St. Paul made it quite clear that no Resurrection=no Christianity.

You would be correct.

That being said, can someone point a newbie Catholic to where it says the Sabbath changed? I don’t recall the modern Catechism saying it did; the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are two entirely different entities, and neither was replaced.

It hasn’t changed, the Sabbath starts Firday at sunset and continues until Saturday at sunset. Always has, always will.

Chuck

 

[pnewton]

Oral tradition doesn’t trump the holy law of God, the 10 Commandments. Since the 10 Commandments were issued by God himself he has not added or subtracted any of the 10. Therefore, we can only conclude that they still stand in force defining what sin is.

Understand if I am skeptical of your logic since your thread title is not found anywhere in the article. I hope all can see that your are just making this up to fit a pre-conceived SDA point.

In any case, I do not are as I no longer live under the Law of Moses.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I know the Pope and his army of Jesuits are very well read and highly educated, and I did not misunderstand the Pope’s article. My point is that it is not theologically logical to take the command to rest on the 7th day and and apply that to the 1st day. When the Pope referred back to Genesis 2, that was obviously talking about the 7th day Sabbath not Sunday. What the Pope that the EU Bishops are lobbying for is to make Sunday a legal day of rest in the EU and next will be the world. **Seventh Day Adventists have long predicted this would happen in the future, and now the future is here! ** I do give Catholics credit for being at least honest when it comes to admitting that Sunday was based on the tradition of the church, and not on a Bible command, while Evangelicals as a whole try to do away with the 10 Commandments in their entirety in an attempt to do away with the Sabbath.

Predictions are about a future event, yes.

Why is at least one of your church’s predictions involving a Church that is not compelling you or anyone else to change or abandon the beleif system you hold now?

Do people who follow your type of religion fear that the Catholic Church will force them to sin by staying home on Sunday? Assuming it is a sin to stay home on Sunday for your faith community.

Do SDA’s have to stay home on Saturday?

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

In the USA I see stone tablets of the 10 Commandments at Court Houses and in front of churches all over the USA. In fact, there is a stone monument of the 10 Commandments at the local Catholic Church where I live.

Then there’s one courthouse the ACLU hasn’t caught up with yet. Churches aren’t “public” buildings in the sense that municipal buildings are. Churches are privately owned. It’s not exactly news that a church could have a religious monument on its property. We’ve seen Nativity scenes purged from municipal spaces, “Merry Christmas” forbidden even in private commercial establishments, and childred forbidden from bringing religiously-themed lunchboxes to school. A mandatory Sunday “day of rest” law isn’t going to happen.

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a manila folder somewhere on an ACLU’s attorney’s desk discussing a legal initiative where “sight lines” are declared to be “public space,” so that a court (the 9th Circuit most likely) could declare that anything one could see from “public space” would have to be purged of religious symbols, so that someone could go down a street - i.e., be on public property - without being “assaulted” by religious imagery, even if that imagery is on private land. No religious symbols on churches, no more lawn statues, even on private land. They would get around the First Amendment by arguing that “freedom of speech” also means “freedom from speech,” and seeing religious symbols on private land represents an involuntary forced engagement with religion.

 

[Church_Militant]

What explodes all of the texts that you quoted is the fact that the Roman Catholic Church admits that the change of the Sabbath was based on church tradition, not Scripture.

Really? Where is the actual authentic and authoritative Catholic document stating that? I don’t think you can provide it since it doesn’t exist.

If you look at the Catholic Catechism it clearly points out that the 10 Commandments are binding on Catholics and for that matter every human being. Therefore, it that be the case then all 10 Commandments are still in force including the Sabbath Commandment, as it is moral in nature dealing with our relation to God himself.

Show me where you find that.

There is no contest that we consider the 10 commandments valid but you try to impugn the early church, even when the scriptures I have already showed you prove that we began Sunday worship even before the New Testament was completed. Now, were the early believers and apostles who did that grave sinners in your opinion?

The texts that you quoted contain no “smoking gun” text that does away with the Sabbath Commandment. If God were to change his holy law, he would make it clear in no uncertain terms, not leave the change to fickleness of churchmen.

God does whatever He pleases.The Sabbath applies to the Jews and Christians worship in celebration of the resurrection.

Like I said before…you’re a judaizer.

The fact is that the disciple kept the Sabbath after Jesus was crucified, if there was a change it didn’t come from Jesus or the Apostles because they continued to keep the Sabbath as recorded in the scores of Sabbath worship events noted in the book of Acts.

Riiiiight…Ignoring the fact that the majority of Acts is Luke’s account of following Paul’s conversion and departure from Judaism and his conflicts and problems there. Paul says it plainly in his own testimony in Acts 22 when he says, “[21] And he said to me: Go, for unto the Gentiles afar off, will I send thee.”

					[Sabbath or Sunday](http://www.catholic.com/library/Sabbath_or_Sunday.asp) (Fathers*)

(Seventh-Day Adventism)

 

[Ignatius]

Note the ZENIT Web news link below:

zenit.org/article-30476?l=english

Sunday is the weekly celebration and memorial of Christs Resurrection and the day of the Lord. It is appropriate that the New Testament people of God honor Him and the day by refraining from work.

 

[p155]

Hasn’t sunday ALWAYS been a day of rest???

 

[StrawberryJam]

Hasn’t sunday ALWAYS been a day of rest???

What do you mean by always?

 

[rwoehmke]

Did not Christ say that the Sabbath was created for man, and not man for the Sabbath? In the ancient world there was no day of rest for the Gentiles. The Church in her wisdom has declared Sunday, the day if the Sun, to be a day of rest and recuperation as well as a day of worship of the God who rose from the dead ion Sun day.

 

[edwest2]

I agree with the Pope. I was there when stores were closed. You went to Church and spent the rest of the day in simple relaxation.

I encourage all Catholics to do this.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Then there’s one courthouse the ACLU hasn’t caught up with yet. Churches aren’t “public” buildings in the sense that municipal buildings are. Churches are privately owned. It’s not exactly news that a church could have a religious monument on its property. We’ve seen Nativity scenes purged from municipal spaces, “Merry Christmas” forbidden even in private commercial establishments, and childred forbidden from bringing religiously-themed lunchboxes to school. A mandatory Sunday “day of rest” law isn’t going to happen.

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a manila folder somewhere on an ACLU’s attorney’s desk discussing a legal initiative where “sight lines” are declared to be “public space,” so that a court (the 9th Circuit most likely) could declare that anything one could see from “public space” would have to be purged of religious symbols, so that someone could go down a street - i.e., be on public property - without being “assaulted” by religious imagery, even if that imagery is on private land. No religious symbols on churches, no more lawn statues, even on private land. They would get around the First Amendment by arguing that “freedom of speech” also means “freedom from speech,” and seeing religious symbols on private land represents an involuntary forced engagement with religion.

Don’t worry about the ACLU. I was there when stores did close on Sundays. It was like that. So, law or no law, every Catholic should follow what the Pope is telling us.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I know the Pope and his army of Jesuits are very well read and highly educated, and I did not misunderstand the Pope’s article. My point is that it is not theologically logical to take the command to rest on the 7th day and and apply that to the 1st day. When the Pope referred back to Genesis 2, that was obviously talking about the 7th day Sabbath not Sunday. What the Pope that the EU Bishops are lobbying for is to make Sunday a legal day of rest in the EU and next will be the world. Seventh Day Adventists have long predicted this would happen in the future, and now the future is here! I do give Catholics credit for being at least honest when it comes to admitting that Sunday was based on the tradition of the church, and not on a Bible command, while Evangelicals as a whole try to do away with the 10 Commandments in their entirety in an attempt to do away with the Sabbath.

Since you are making a theological argument here may I ask what your credentials are as a theologian?

Just so that I and weigh your thoughts against those of the Holy Father’s.

Sunday has been a day of rest in the Catholic Church for a long time, as well as most of the Christian world, so I know you have already misread what the Pope was saying.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Then there’s one courthouse the ACLU hasn’t caught up with yet. Churches aren’t “public” buildings in the sense that municipal buildings are. Churches are privately owned. It’s not exactly news that a church could have a religious monument on its property. We’ve seen Nativity scenes purged from municipal spaces, “Merry Christmas” forbidden even in private commercial establishments, and childred forbidden from bringing religiously-themed lunchboxes to school. A mandatory Sunday “day of rest” law isn’t going to happen.

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a manila folder somewhere on an ACLU’s attorney’s desk discussing a legal initiative where “sight lines” are declared to be “public space,” so that a court (the 9th Circuit most likely) could declare that anything one could see from “public space” would have to be purged of religious symbols, so that someone could go down a street - i.e., be on public property - without being “assaulted” by religious imagery, even if that imagery is on private land. No religious symbols on churches, no more lawn statues, even on private land. They would get around the First Amendment by arguing that “freedom of speech” also means “freedom from speech,” and seeing religious symbols on private land represents an involuntary forced engagement with religion.

If you want nativity scenes on municipal property, just pay for it and you may get it. Tax dollars should not pay for it. Keep in mind all religions or lack of would be able to display anything they want to also when they pay for it.
No one is taking anyone’s right to display scenes they pay for themselves on their property they get tax free.

 

[TruthWave]

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but IIRC, the Church has always held that the Sabbath is Saturday. The Sabbath did not change. What DID change was the day of worship, as we celebrate Christ’s Resurrection on Sunday. St. Paul made it quite clear that no Resurrection=no Christianity.

That being said, can someone point a newbie Catholic to where it says the Sabbath changed? I don’t recall the modern Catechism saying it did; the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are two entirely different entities, and neither was replaced.

The change is that majority of professed Christians don’t honor the Sabbath by worshiping and ceasing from secular labor on the 7th day, according the Sabbath commandment in the 10 Commandments. And this is inconsistent with the statements on the Catholic Catechism that say that the Law of God is binding.

 

[TruthWave]

Since you are making a theological argument here may I ask what your credentials are as a theologian?

Just so that I and weigh your thoughts against those of the Holy Father’s.

Sunday has been a day of rest in the Catholic Church for a long time, as well as most of the Christian world, so I know you have already misread what the Pope was saying.

Did Jesus and John the Baptist and the 12 disciples have “credentials”? I have simply studied the Bible and History for the last 30 years. The most important things in the Bible can be understood by a born again 12 year old child. For example, the 10 Commandments can be understood by a 12 year old child.

I know that the Catholic Church has kept Sunday for over a thousand years. May point is that the news article shows how the Papacy using the theological underpinnings of the Sabbath to bolster Sunday observance.

 

[TruthWave]

Did not Christ say that the Sabbath was created for man, and not man for the Sabbath? In the ancient world there was no day of rest for the Gentiles. The Church in her wisdom has declared Sunday, the day if the Sun, to be a day of rest and recuperation as well as a day of worship of the God who rose from the dead ion Sun day.

Did you understand what you said? When Jesus said that he mankind that included Jew and Gentile alike. Why is there a need for a “new Sabbath” when God never created one, and the the 7th day Sabbath Commandment still stands as part of the 10 Commandments? The duty of the church is not to substitute its man made laws in place of God’s laws, but to preach truth.

 

[TruthWave]

Understand if I am skeptical of your logic since your thread title is not found anywhere in the article. I hope all can see that your are just making this up to fit a pre-conceived SDA point.

In any case, I do not are as I no longer live under the Law of Moses.

Oh really? The Catholic Catechism says otherwise: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P79.HTM

075 “What good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” - “If you would enter into life, keep the commandments” (⇒ Mt 19:16-17).

2076 By his life and by his preaching Jesus attested to the permanent validity of the Decalogue.

 

[JM3]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Article 3

THE THIRD COMMANDMENT

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.90

The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.91

90 ⇒ Ex 20:8-10; cf. ⇒ Deut 5:12-15.
91 ⇒ Mk 2:27-28.

I. The Sabbath Day

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93

2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord’s day a memorial of Israel’s liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94

2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.

2172 God’s action is the model for human action. If God “rested and was refreshed” on the seventh day, man too ought to “rest” and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97

2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. **But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.”**99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102​

92 ⇒ Ex 31:15.
93 ⇒ Ex 20:11.
94 ⇒ Deut 5:15.
95 Cf. ⇒ Ex 31:16.
96 ⇒ Ex 31:17; cf. ⇒ 23:12.
97 Cf. ⇒ Neh 13:15-22; ⇒ 2 Chr 36:21.
98 Cf. ⇒ Mk 1:21; ⇒ Jn 9:16.
99 ⇒ Mk 2:27.
100 Cf. ⇒ Mk 3:4[ETML:C/].
101 Cf. ⇒ Mt 12:5; ⇒ Jn 7:23.
102 ⇒ Mk 2:28.

II. The Lord’s Day

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people

103 ⇒ Ps 118:24.
104 Cf. ⇒ Mt 28:1; ⇒ Mk 16:2; ⇒ Lk 24:1; ⇒ Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. ⇒ Mk 16:1; ⇒ Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.
107 Cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II 122, 4.