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Pope Warns Against New Colonialism: Corporations, Loan Agencies, and Austerity Measures That Hurt Poor
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Birdpreacher
Guest
Isn’t this basically his view from the encyclical? How he questions the morality of our current economic system?
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antihippy79
Guest
Our Holy Father is vaguely conspiratorial in his rhetoric denouncing “loan agencies” and “free trade”. His use of scare quotes is even more bizarre. The language is socialistic and indefensible. I just don’t understand how cardinals who elected two amazing Popes have elected a man sympathetic to the causes of the most destructive forces of the past 100 years, namely atheistic communism.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
This is patently false. The language is in no way socialist and it is certainly no different than the language that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict used. I think that the one thing we learn is how wonderful the Holy Spirit is in giving us such wonderful popes.
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triumphguy
Guest
He’s right.
I agree.
And you could go all the way back to Pope Leo XIII in 1891 and his encyclical Rerum novarum on “Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor” for similar language.
The opening sentence is :
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mikekle
Guest
I agree with him, far too many people, especially in the US, are worshiping money as their ‘god’, they may not realize that or admit to it, but that is their main concern on a daily basis, all our huge corporations, no matter how much they make, its never enough, they always want MORE, MORE. Greed is running rampant here, it has been for a long time now, people are so concerned with driving the latest greatest cars, living in HUGE homes, having all kinds of pricey electronic devices.
I really think when Jesus comes back, hes not going to be too happy with all this materialism, consumerism, I think he will throw a wrench into their world and see how they react.
I should mention, I work as a corporate rep for a large gas station/convenience store chain, I see first hand, how all this works, Im constantly amazed how much people worship the almighty $$. Do we really need 250 different varieties of soda, chips, gum, cigarettes, etc etc? LOL Do we really need umpteen different mega stores open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Heck, now with the internet, people can shop ANYTIME, day or night, as easy as typing in your credit card number, companies are constantly coming up with ideas so people can get rid of their money quicker.
Not too long ago, when a soda company introduced a new drink, it was a HUGE deal, it could make or break the company…nowadays, they all introduce new flavors, varieties about every 6 months…?? They regularly re-organize the entire section to accommodate this, I can honestly say, people will buy almost anything you put in front of their faces. LOL.
Not to mention, all the people that going to serious debt, just so they can be seen driving the latest cars, there are many lots out there, catering to people who have bad credit, they are charging these people up to 28% interest!!! The bad thing is, they are doing great, people are buying left and right??? Im sorry, but 28% is nothing but greed, they could probably get a better deal borrowing money from the mafia!
Didnt Jesus instruct us to loan money to people most likely NOT to pay it back instead of people who will pay it back? I dont think many people are obeying this, even financial groups that claim to be christian based or claim to care about people.
I really think when Jesus comes back, hes not going to be too happy with all this materialism, consumerism, I think he will throw a wrench into their world and see how they react.
I should mention, I work as a corporate rep for a large gas station/convenience store chain, I see first hand, how all this works, Im constantly amazed how much people worship the almighty $$. Do we really need 250 different varieties of soda, chips, gum, cigarettes, etc etc? LOL Do we really need umpteen different mega stores open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Heck, now with the internet, people can shop ANYTIME, day or night, as easy as typing in your credit card number, companies are constantly coming up with ideas so people can get rid of their money quicker.
Not too long ago, when a soda company introduced a new drink, it was a HUGE deal, it could make or break the company…nowadays, they all introduce new flavors, varieties about every 6 months…?? They regularly re-organize the entire section to accommodate this, I can honestly say, people will buy almost anything you put in front of their faces. LOL.
Not to mention, all the people that going to serious debt, just so they can be seen driving the latest cars, there are many lots out there, catering to people who have bad credit, they are charging these people up to 28% interest!!! The bad thing is, they are doing great, people are buying left and right??? Im sorry, but 28% is nothing but greed, they could probably get a better deal borrowing money from the mafia!
Didnt Jesus instruct us to loan money to people most likely NOT to pay it back instead of people who will pay it back? I dont think many people are obeying this, even financial groups that claim to be christian based or claim to care about people.
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Brendan
Guest
“Our current economic system” Do you meant the US, the UK, northern Europe, Russia, China, Japan, the various African economies, India?
They all have different economic systems.
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triumphguy
Guest
The Pope no doubt means the global system of multi-billion, transnational/global corporations who operate for maximum profit regardless of the consequences for the countries they get involved in.
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edwest2
Guest
Only a relatively small number of people among the global populace control most of the money. And control loans. The World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, to name a few.
In the US, one can drive north on a street called Jefferson and see buildings in Detroit that look like they had been bombed, burned out, partially scavenged and boarded up, but a hundred feet from the border, flowers, modest but expensive to large and expensive homes in a community that resembles a movie scene. The street signs are made of wood. People walk their dogs and are well dressed. Once you pass ‘the barrier,’ you see the stark contrast.
Sometimes, aid is tied to the people also being required to accept “new ideas” as well, which can be bad to very bad.
ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-warns-west-over-ideological-colonization
Cheap labor, a lack of humane working conditions, all in the name of profits. There is no such thing as too much money, and moving “product” is a driving force, along with obtaining valuable resources for as little money as possible. For the average man who can afford to buy what would be considered luxuries in other countries, years of studies in packaging design and the use of certain words to sell something have established the criteria to help something sell more. Just using the word “new” on a product has been shown to increase sales. And for the young, that ‘new thing,’ whether it is an electronic gadget or new flavor, reinforces the “I’ve got to have what’s new.” mindset.
Ed
In the US, one can drive north on a street called Jefferson and see buildings in Detroit that look like they had been bombed, burned out, partially scavenged and boarded up, but a hundred feet from the border, flowers, modest but expensive to large and expensive homes in a community that resembles a movie scene. The street signs are made of wood. People walk their dogs and are well dressed. Once you pass ‘the barrier,’ you see the stark contrast.
Sometimes, aid is tied to the people also being required to accept “new ideas” as well, which can be bad to very bad.
ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-warns-west-over-ideological-colonization
Cheap labor, a lack of humane working conditions, all in the name of profits. There is no such thing as too much money, and moving “product” is a driving force, along with obtaining valuable resources for as little money as possible. For the average man who can afford to buy what would be considered luxuries in other countries, years of studies in packaging design and the use of certain words to sell something have established the criteria to help something sell more. Just using the word “new” on a product has been shown to increase sales. And for the young, that ‘new thing,’ whether it is an electronic gadget or new flavor, reinforces the “I’ve got to have what’s new.” mindset.
Ed
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Thomas_White
Guest
Exactly. And as Pope Francis points out in Laudato Si, political corruption has resulted in corporations gaining the political power to operate beyond the laws with impunity. In the U.S., this unquestionably has occurred as the result of corporate lobbying and the vast amount of money now in politics and in the electoral process.
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Hazen_Pingree
Guest
Edwest,
I know Detroit quite well. I’ve lived in and around the city all of my life. I’ve been up and down Jefferson quite a few times – ever since I was a little boy, and I’m over 60 now. At one point, Jefferson Avenue south of the “Pointes” was no different than the Jefferson of the Pointes. Detroit, at one time, was quite a lovely city. It didn’t collapse because the money controllers refused to make loans, it collapsed because the people living south of the Pointes didn’t have the credit they needed to secure a loan – that, plus a lack of ambition for them to even consider asking for a loan. The people south of the border you write about weren’t starting new businesses, repairing their homes, becoming doctors and lawyers and scholars. They didn’t look to the future. Instead, they became slaves of the government and the government’s party. They lived on welfare. They made babies and didn’t father-up (or mother-up for that matter). They sold and did lots of drugs. They killed each other with such impunity that Detroit south of the Pointes became the “Murder Captiol of the World.” They went to prison. They aborted their babies at rates that were five times the rates of abortions in the Pointes. They blamed The Man. They voted in politicians who also blamed The Man. And those same politicians robbed them blind – for years! They burned their own houses to the ground every Devil’s Night (the night before Halloween) for years.Their schools became cesspools of drugs and promiscuity – but not knowledge; knowledge was disdained as being something respected by The Man – but not by them. Graduation rates plummeted. Functional illiteracy became the norm. They were incapable of being hired because they were totally unprepared and unqualified. Businesses closed down and left the city – not because the money controllers wouldn’t make funds available, but because the risks entailed for making a loan in that godforsaken city were so bad that the money controllers would be fools to make a loan in such a depressed and crime-ridden area. It wasn’t a need for cheap labor, inhumane working conditions or an unbridled capitalism that put “profit over people” that caused the problems of Jefferson Avenue south of the Pointes. And it wasn’t “dung of the devil” capitalism that the pope talked about today. It was the failure of personal responsibility, a failure of community, a collapse of virtue, and an absurdly childish notion that someone else owes them a living that caused the problem that is Jefferson Avenue south of the Pointes.
I know Detroit quite well. I’ve lived in and around the city all of my life. I’ve been up and down Jefferson quite a few times – ever since I was a little boy, and I’m over 60 now. At one point, Jefferson Avenue south of the “Pointes” was no different than the Jefferson of the Pointes. Detroit, at one time, was quite a lovely city. It didn’t collapse because the money controllers refused to make loans, it collapsed because the people living south of the Pointes didn’t have the credit they needed to secure a loan – that, plus a lack of ambition for them to even consider asking for a loan. The people south of the border you write about weren’t starting new businesses, repairing their homes, becoming doctors and lawyers and scholars. They didn’t look to the future. Instead, they became slaves of the government and the government’s party. They lived on welfare. They made babies and didn’t father-up (or mother-up for that matter). They sold and did lots of drugs. They killed each other with such impunity that Detroit south of the Pointes became the “Murder Captiol of the World.” They went to prison. They aborted their babies at rates that were five times the rates of abortions in the Pointes. They blamed The Man. They voted in politicians who also blamed The Man. And those same politicians robbed them blind – for years! They burned their own houses to the ground every Devil’s Night (the night before Halloween) for years.Their schools became cesspools of drugs and promiscuity – but not knowledge; knowledge was disdained as being something respected by The Man – but not by them. Graduation rates plummeted. Functional illiteracy became the norm. They were incapable of being hired because they were totally unprepared and unqualified. Businesses closed down and left the city – not because the money controllers wouldn’t make funds available, but because the risks entailed for making a loan in that godforsaken city were so bad that the money controllers would be fools to make a loan in such a depressed and crime-ridden area. It wasn’t a need for cheap labor, inhumane working conditions or an unbridled capitalism that put “profit over people” that caused the problems of Jefferson Avenue south of the Pointes. And it wasn’t “dung of the devil” capitalism that the pope talked about today. It was the failure of personal responsibility, a failure of community, a collapse of virtue, and an absurdly childish notion that someone else owes them a living that caused the problem that is Jefferson Avenue south of the Pointes.
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triumphguy
Guest
Or the 85 richest people who have more wealth than 3,500,000,000 of the world’s poorest people.
[Oxfam: 85 richest people as wealthy as poorest half of the world | Davos | The Guardian
](Oxfam: 85 richest people as wealthy as poorest half of the world)
And I agree with you that anti-life agendas are forced upon peoples when they seek help from the World Bank.
I would imagine the Pope would hold both these groups to task, wouldn’t you?
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Thomas_White
Guest
Having taught for some years in the inner-city public schools of a large Midwestern city located not so distant from Detroit, I have to ask this question: How does this happen? Is it nature or is it nurture, heredity or environment?
There were profound differences between the behavior and attitudes of the students at the public school where I taught and those of the students of a closeby Catholic school which I often visited and became quite familiar with from assisting with various programs. The differences were startling, and they were very evident as soon as one entered that Catholic school and walked along its main hallway. It seems to me one ought to ask why was there this huge difference among students from the same neighborhood and environment?
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esieffe
Guest
It is amazing to watch people throw around and vilify the term “socialism.” Social Security, unemployment insurance, public schools, healthcare for retired Americans who have worked their entire lives a.k.a. Medicare are all forms of Socialism.
Is it the fault of the beneficiaries that the government raided the Social Security “lockbox,” that Medicare abuse has run rampant? These programs were intrusted to those charged with protecting these them against people who worship the false gods of money and consumerism.
There are several countries who have similar protections who manage not to succumb to the problems of misuse, misappropriation, and outright theft that our systems do. Why have our systems failed when others succeed? I believe the answers to be greed and lazy apathetic bureaucrats. Again, other countries succeed using these systems where we fail.
No country can last indefinitely under the tyranny of pure capitalism. Anyone who believes this is possible is grasping for just another version of a Utopia. You may be wondering about now if I applaud the rampant moral decay running through the west. I do not.
What I do think is that we need to better understand why we tolerate greed and corruption found in most levels of business and government. How can a world that has within it’s grasp the ability to one day colonize Mars allow the utter exploitation of poor countries and ours, all in the name of a ticker symbol? There is something wrong with this picture.
There is nothing wrong with the desire to provide your family with a nice home, financial security, if that is how you choose to spend your life. There is something wrong with one who builds an empire at the expense of those who toil most of their lives, living in poverty with little hope of providing anything that approaches the basic standard of comfort for them and their families.
Way too many people toil and fight for the basics all their lives, from cradle to grave. It is our duty in my mind as Christians and Catholics to do what we can for these people. Even small things, like buying someone cold a cup of coffee and being kind. Making an effort to drop off gifts or clothing for someone in a nursing home.
I am very grateful to the Holy Father. I feel his example will shine for all to see in the line of Popes. Earth is blessed to have him, a message of hope during a time of global war and moral abdication.
Is it the fault of the beneficiaries that the government raided the Social Security “lockbox,” that Medicare abuse has run rampant? These programs were intrusted to those charged with protecting these them against people who worship the false gods of money and consumerism.
There are several countries who have similar protections who manage not to succumb to the problems of misuse, misappropriation, and outright theft that our systems do. Why have our systems failed when others succeed? I believe the answers to be greed and lazy apathetic bureaucrats. Again, other countries succeed using these systems where we fail.
No country can last indefinitely under the tyranny of pure capitalism. Anyone who believes this is possible is grasping for just another version of a Utopia. You may be wondering about now if I applaud the rampant moral decay running through the west. I do not.
What I do think is that we need to better understand why we tolerate greed and corruption found in most levels of business and government. How can a world that has within it’s grasp the ability to one day colonize Mars allow the utter exploitation of poor countries and ours, all in the name of a ticker symbol? There is something wrong with this picture.
There is nothing wrong with the desire to provide your family with a nice home, financial security, if that is how you choose to spend your life. There is something wrong with one who builds an empire at the expense of those who toil most of their lives, living in poverty with little hope of providing anything that approaches the basic standard of comfort for them and their families.
Way too many people toil and fight for the basics all their lives, from cradle to grave. It is our duty in my mind as Christians and Catholics to do what we can for these people. Even small things, like buying someone cold a cup of coffee and being kind. Making an effort to drop off gifts or clothing for someone in a nursing home.
I am very grateful to the Holy Father. I feel his example will shine for all to see in the line of Popes. Earth is blessed to have him, a message of hope during a time of global war and moral abdication.
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SWolf
Guest
Paradoxically, foreign aid from governments have probably done more harm than all of the forces he mentioned combined.
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triumphguy
Guest
The Marshall Plan did a lot of good.
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Hazen_Pingree
Guest
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edwest2
Guest
Sir,
I lived in the Detroit you know. My classmates wanted to be doctors, lawyers, autoworkers and other skilled trades. No, if I wrote a book, it would be titled, The Planned Destruction of the City of Detroit.
I lived in a beautiful neighborhood, with many good neighbors. NO, it was not perfect but we had what we needed. Most of us lived in wood-frame homes. Most of us listened to our parents and teachers. Yes, there was crime and other problems but we did not lock our doors at night. We had something a lot of people today don’t remember or know about: We were content with what we had. People sat on their front porch. Most drove affordable cars. The police could be counted on. Busses were used by my dad to go to work and come home. The same for my mom before I was born. She saved and did without and paid cash for our house. My dad worked hard because he liked working hard. Our parents, teachers and neighbors encouraged us to get a good education, to have respect for ourselves and others. You called your elders Mister or Missus. You knew at least one other language. I wanted to be a chemist.
What happened? Every year, the Detroit City Council looked at tax revenues, they looked at unemployment figures for the city, they looked at schools because in the 1970s till today, parents were concerned about good schools. As the decades passed, very little was done to stop the flow of things going downhill, to attract new business and to hold people accountable. To really get involved in schools - a popular campaign promise. No one can say they didn’t know. No one. The Pointes remained untouched. Grosse Pointe Farms, Grosse Pointe Woods, really? How about Grosse Pointe Shores? The location of the Edsel and Eleanor Ford House, which is a mansion. I’ve been there.
No, the city of Detroit had to sink so low that it’s being sold for pennies on the dollar - to the wealthy, most of whom don’t live in the city. I recall the articles about unnamed buyers purchasing land and buildings around the Masonic Temple. The owners had to sign a secrecy agreement to not reveal who the buyers were.
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
He is. He’s not naming names but when money/profits become more valued than people, and when the poor become “invisible,” he points out, as he has in other statements about poverty, that, as Jesus said, “He who has more should give to he who has less.” No, Socialism is not the goal, but our neighbor, especially the poorest, need to be on the minds of the wealthy and on our minds, wealthy or not.
The wealthy are just as vulnerable to bad influences as much as the average person, but imagine the temptation when “I can literally get almost anything I want.” Like the nobles of days past, they have access and influence among world leaders. Their peers can be influenced by others who may, in some cases, erode their ideas of right and wrong. There are a few people who are publicly doing that to the peasants.
Make no mistake. We still live in feudal times. The King or Queen, their court and sons and daughters, the nobility on down to us. The other problem is the so-called “only superpower” in the world, the United States. No, I’m not saying good things cannot happen but we need to know what’s going on. I have no animosity toward the people of the US or its government in general, but the common man does not have lobbyists.
There was a think tank that was called Project for the New American Century. Like the ancient Roman Empire, once you have one, you don’t let it go. You plan to keep it. Their goals are outlined in a “White Paper produced in September of 2000 entitled ‘Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century.’”
But have hope. Pope Francis is a wise man.
Ed
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ProVobis
Guest
This is not directed at you but do I detect a tone of envy in this discussion? I thought there was a commandment against that.
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