Pope Warns Against New Colonialism: Corporations, Loan Agencies, and Austerity Measures That Hurt Poor

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philipl said:
Can you point out some of the created “needs”? Can you be somewhat specific?
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I am really curious as to what things you see as “needs” and “wants”? Why do you think there is a difference?
 
graciew said:
Why ??? We would miss you.
We all have different gifts to share.
Our dear Jesus never asked for " just another brick in the wall".
You eould love our Pope ,he is a lovable simple person.
Consider staying !!!🙂
Ps I see I am.typing like a monkey with a razor. Excuse mu mistakes.
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My comments were totally tongue-in-cheek … an extension of others’ comments about the Pope being a socialist.

However, as an anthropologist I have no problem with communism, per se, since it was likely the economic system of 99% of our human history – generalized reciprocity or “primitive communism” or “caring and sharing” as we have in monasteries.
 
lynnvinc said:
My comments were totally tongue-in-cheek … an extension of others’ comments about the Pope being a socialist.

However, as an anthropologist I have no problem with communism, per se, since it was likely the economic system of 99% of our human history – generalized reciprocity or “primitive communism” or “caring and sharing” as we have in monasteries.
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Monasteries are voluntary associations.

That’s the difference between capitalism and socialism. There is nothing to prevent individuals from living in a community under a capitalist government. Under a socialist government, your choices are limited and there are many activities that the government won’t permit.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Monasteries are voluntary associations.

That’s the difference between capitalism and socialism. There is nothing to prevent individuals from living in a community under a capitalist government. Under a socialist government, your choices are limited and there are many activities that the government won’t permit.
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As mentioned some 99% of human history societies (not voluntary orgs within them) were communistic. It was a strategy to increase chances for survival. Without ability to store and horde, people “invested” and “stored” in good human relations by caring and sharing.

However, it is interesting that one anthropologist, Pospisil, found a tribal society in New Guinea (one out of the very many) that practiced “primitive capitalism” and didn’t really have a religion to speak of, going against the stereotype of tribal societies.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Poverty can be a result of these things, however there are other causes of poverty as well. For example, I have a friend who works hard and makes $250 a month in a developing country. He doesn’t drink nor does he squander his money, but he is likely to be poor for most of his life, because he lacks access to education and other factors that contribute to higher incomes. There are two basic reasons why people are poor: first, people do stupid things, second, bad things happen (i.e. born in the wrong country) or lack of opportunity. We don’t really know what percentage of poor people come from each cause.
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Which country is this? Is the government corrupt?
 
lynnvinc said:
As mentioned some 99% of human history societies (not voluntary orgs within them) were communistic. It was a strategy to increase chances for survival. Without ability to store and horde, people “invested” and “stored” in good human relations by caring and sharing.

However, it is interesting that one anthropologist, Pospisil, found a tribal society in New Guinea (one out of the very many) that practiced “primitive capitalism” and didn’t really have a religion to speak of, going against the stereotype of tribal societies.
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Living in community is not communism.

Under a capitalist system you can choose to live communally.

You can’t choose to start your own business under a socialist government unless the government approves.

Freedom is better than slavery. Capitalism is better than socialism.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Living in community is not communism.

Under a capitalist system you can choose to live communally.

You can’t choose to start your own business under a socialist government unless the government approves.

Freedom is better than slavery. Capitalism is better than socialism.
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Right.
Caring and sharing is NOT COMMUNISM. Any “ism” that subordinates human flourishing and dignity to an “ism” is harmful, including capital"ism" and communi"ism".
 
clem456 said:
Right.
Caring and sharing is NOT COMMUNISM. Any “ism” that subordinates human flourishing and dignity to an “ism” is harmful, including capital"ism" and communi"ism".
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Capitalism does no such thing.

Capitalism is human freedom. All other forms of state sponsored economics involve coercion.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Capitalism does no such thing.

Capitalism is human freedom. All other forms of state sponsored economics involve coercion.
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Capitalism is not “human freedom” any more than communism. Capitalism can coerce just like any other system. Human beings are not subject to isms, we are children of God FIRST.
 
clem456 said:
Capitalism is not “human freedom” any more than communism. Capitalism can coerce just like any other system. Human beings are not subject to isms, we are children of God FIRST.
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That’s not true. Under capitalism, all transactions are voluntary.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
That’s not true. Under capitalism, all transactions are voluntary.
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All? Every single one?

Come on, you know that’s ridiculous.

I have to engage in quite a few transactions that are less than voluntary. I suppose I could refuse to do so, and let my daughter starve, and not have a roof over her head. If that’s what you mean by “voluntary,” I suppose you’re right.
 
Inisfallen said:
All? Every single one?

Come on, you know that’s ridiculous.

I have to engage in quite a few transactions that are less than voluntary. I suppose I could refuse to do so, and let my daughter starve, and not have a roof over her head. If that’s what you mean by “voluntary,” I suppose you’re right.
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All transactions under capitalism are voluntary. No one forces you to buy or sell anything.

However, with state controls, your decisions are mandated. We don’t get to choose whether or not to buy what the government is making. For example, if we don’t pay our taxes, men with guns will come knocking on our doors, whereas if we choose not to patronize McDonalds, no one will bother us.
 
lynnvinc said:
My comments were totally tongue-in-cheek … an extension of others’ comments about the Pope being a socialist.

However, as an anthropologist I have no problem with communism, per se, since it was likely the economic system of 99% of our human history – generalized reciprocity or “primitive communism” or “caring and sharing” as we have in monasteries.
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Ok. There are " literary devices " I miss sometimes in the threads:)
Anthropology is so interesting…
 
Inisfallen said:
All? Every single one?

Come on, you know that’s ridiculous.

I have to engage in quite a few transactions that are less than voluntary. I suppose I could refuse to do so, and let my daughter starve, and not have a roof over her head. If that’s what you mean by “voluntary,” I suppose you’re right.
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You can choose to shop from grocery store A or from grocery store B, or from the local market C, or from restaurant D, etc, etc, etc, etc.

No one forces you to buy the food. And you can always buy a plot of land and grow your own food and pay no one if you choose.

You DO understand that “voluntary” doesn’t mean that human physical needs disappear, right?
 
clem456 said:
Right.
Caring and sharing is NOT COMMUNISM. Any “ism” that subordinates human flourishing and dignity to an “ism” is harmful, including capital"ism" and communi"ism".
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What about Catholic"ism"?
 
zz912 said:
What about Catholic"ism"?
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Well gee, this is what I wrote:
Originally Posted by clem456 View Post
Right.
Caring and sharing is NOT COMMUNISM. Any “ism” that subordinates human flourishing and dignity to an “ism” is harmful, including capital"ism" and communi"ism".
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What do you think? Do you still have a question?
 
clem456 said:
Well gee, this is what I wrote:

What do you think? Do you still have a question?
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Yes. Because I don’t see anything inherent to capitalism that subordinates human dignity or flourishing. In fact I see the opposite.
 
zz912 said:
For 99% of human history, people were not free. You’ve proven against your own point.
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They were a whole lot freer than people today in either capitalistic or communistic societies, and in the most democratic societies of today.

You know not of what you speak.

Band-level peoples are free to do what they want, even to join other more accommodating bands.

What killed freedom was the rise of civilization. Modern democracy was supposed to be an antidote to that, but in recent decades our freedoms here in America have been grossly eroded. But even at the height of American freedom, it didn’t come even close to the greater freedom band-level peoples had.
 
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