Pope warns Catholic politicians who back abortion

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GreenJeans said:
If a Catholic legialator chose to represent the pope’s views rather than his constituents’ views, I doubt he would be a legialator very long. I also suspect the voters would then be wary of electing Catholics.
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What should happen is that the politicians who claim to be Catholic and promote abortion stop fooling themselves and everyone else that they are Catholic. The long term damage they do (other than the obvious) is make other Catholics believe that abortion is ok.
 
aaronjmagnan said:
There needn’t be a document prepared nor an announcement that the person is excommunicated. From what I understand it happens immediately, irregardless of a bureaucratic process, and thus they are in grave sin and apostasy until they make ammends for their action. That is, whether or not the clergy is conscious of the person’s actions, they have been tacitly excommunicated.

Correct me please if I’m wrong.

Their salvation is a personal matter at that point that should concern us, but doesn’t require public humiliation. All it requires is God’s recognition that the Church has bound them on earth to stay away from abortion, and if they don’t…presto.

Now of course the clergy should know this and not allow them to receive the body of Christ, but whether or not this happens, and whther or not the Church creates a “blacklist,” the people are no longer considered part of the team.

Pray for them so that they may no longer harm the Body of Christ in their sin. Pray for their salvation. Pray for their conversion.

Is my theology off here? Corrections are welcome.

God bless
Aaron
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The problem is that these politcians continue to sin publicly and they continue to receive communion. This creates an enormous scandal in the Church. The politicians in question are essentially “daring” the Church to do something.
 
A poorly formed conscience is in regard to the gravity of sin, not canon law. That is, someone knows the gravity of the sin of participating in abortion. It doesn’t require too much reasoning to understand that as a Catholic. The Church, since the beginning in Rome, has spoken out against abortion.

I forget who said it, but a Church father wrote something like “It is abominable to kill a child whether born or in the womb, although some have taken this as a ritual practice.”

God bless
Aaron
 
aaronjmagnan said:
There needn’t be a document prepared nor an announcement that the person is excommunicated. From what I understand it happens immediately, irregardless of a bureaucratic process, and thus they are in grave sin and apostasy until they make ammends for their action. That is, whether or not the clergy is conscious of the person’s actions, they have been tacitly excommunicated.

Correct me please if I’m wrong.

Their salvation is a personal matter at that point that should concern us, but doesn’t require public humiliation. All it requires is God’s recognition that the Church has bound them on earth to stay away from abortion, and if they don’t…presto.

Now of course the clergy should know this and not allow them to receive the body of Christ, but whether or not this happens, and whther or not the Church creates a “blacklist,” the people are no longer considered part of the team.

Pray for them so that they may no longer harm the Body of Christ in their sin. Pray for their salvation. Pray for their conversion.

Is my theology off here? Corrections are welcome.

God bless
Aaron
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The key to this would the clergy not allow them to receive the Body of Christ.
 
aaronjmagnan said:
A poorly formed conscience is in regard to the gravity of sin, not canon law. That is, someone knows the gravity of the sin of participating in abortion. It doesn’t require too much reasoning to understand that as a Catholic. The Church, since the beginning in Rome, has spoken out against abortion.

I forget who said it, but a Church father wrote something like “It is abominable to kill a child whether born or in the womb, although some have taken this as a ritual practice.”

God bless
Aaron
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No, a conscience is to be conformity with Catholic teachings (Canon Law has nothing to do with this).
 
Thanks Tom.

I agree except that the excommunication being latae sententiae is a canon law matter.

Here’s my point:

One does not need to know the canon law to know that abortion is a grave sin on the part of all participating. One doesn’t need to know the gravity (punishable by excommunication) to know it is grave.

And a poorly formed conscience is the exception to the culpability in a sin. That is, if we told them “Oh, you have a poorly formed conscience” they might be under the impression that they are not culpable for the sin.

God bless
Aaron
 
GreenJeans said:
If a Catholic legialator chose to represent the pope’s views rather than his constituents’ views, I doubt he would be a legialator very long. I also suspect the voters would then be wary of electing Catholics.
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Or more inclinded to vote for Catholics. 👍

It would mean more honest politicians, after all, a politician who says they are Catholic and that they support abortion is lying about one of them.
 
aaronjmagnan said:
Thanks Tom.

I agree except that the excommunication being latae sententiae is a canon law matter.

Here’s my point:

One does not need to know the canon law to know that abortion is a grave sin on the part of all participating. One doesn’t need to know the gravity (punishable by excommunication) to know it is grave.

And a poorly formed conscience is the exception to the culpability in a sin. That is, if we told them “Oh, you have a poorly formed conscience” they might be under the impression that they are not culpable for the sin.

God bless
Aaron
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I agree with all points.

I will add that when grave sins go withut any consequence, and when those are extremely public sins, there is a scandal that is produced as a result. Habitual public sins must be addressed privately at first, yet if the public sin continues, there must be a public rebuke of that sin, it is only just.
 
Right on Tom! That’s the way I see it too. Jesus made public his rebukes. So should we.

The sad thing is, the Democratic party has strayed from its roots in Democracy, and become a totalitarian clique, while the Republicans have become less and less concerned with charity. And while a Catholic party sounds good, it might just be better to overwhelm the parties already in place with good, strong Catholics. So much so that no one would be able to really deny their place.

Aw man. That brings us back to the beginning–where the heck are the good, strong Catholic politicians?

God bless
 
Tom317 said:
ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE (Reuters) - Pope Benedict on Wednesday warned Catholic politicians they risked excommunication from the Church and should not receive communion if they support abortion. It was the first time that the Pope, speaking to reporters aboard the plane taking him on a trip to Brazil, dealt in depth with a controversial topic that has come up in many countries, including the United States, Mexico, and Italy.

The Pope was asked whether he supported Mexican Church leaders threatening to excommunicate leftist parliamentarians who last month voted to legalize abortion in Mexico City.

“Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon (church) law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ,” he said.

reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0956318820070509?feedType=RSS&rpc=22
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Amen! 😃

The mouth of Peter has spoken. You can’t be both Catholic and pro-abortion.
 
aaronjmagnan said:
Right on Tom! That’s the way I see it too. Jesus made public his rebukes. So should we.

The sad thing is, the Democratic party has strayed from its roots in Democracy, and become a totalitarian clique, while the Republicans have become less and less concerned with charity. And while a Catholic party sounds good, it might just be better to overwhelm the parties already in place with good, strong Catholics. So much so that no one would be able to really deny their place.

Aw man. That brings us back to the beginning–where the heck are the good, strong Catholic politicians?

God bless
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The biggest mistake the pro-life movement ever made was aligning itself with a political party. We must pray that God’s will be done and not man’s.
 
bones_IV said:
Amen! 😃

The mouth of Peter has spoken. You can’t be both Catholic and pro-abortion.
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Very true! 🙂

I just hope people start putting this together. Cardinal Ratzinger used to speak against politcians who supported abortion, and then people said it does not matter because he is now the Pope. Well, now the Pope, who was the previous Cardinal, has spoken strongly.
 
bones_IV said:
The biggest mistake the pro-life movement ever made was aligning itself with a political party. We must pray that God’s will be done and not man’s.
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I have to disagree. To be a democratic politician you have to be pro abortion. The democratic platform very cleary states it is pro abortion.

The Republican platform clearly states that it is pro life.

It is such a huge contradiction to be pro life yet for a pro abortion party.
 
I’ve come to the conclusion that liberal Catholics – by that I mean Catholics who support the Democrats despite their pro-abortion stance – are in some ways thankful for the Iraq War.

I have now read so many debates on these boards, and invariably, it is the war that liberal Catholics hide behind as their justification for voting for the pro-abortion party. It’s given them an excuse to support democrats and to obey their idealogy rather than their faith.

I am highly sympathetic to many democratic causes in terms of social justice – at least the ones that are genuine and not just power-grabs. That doesn’t change the fact that Democrats such as Nancy Pelosi are completely culpable in an atrocity beyond imagining.

I’m glad Pope Benedict is being forthright in this manner. Now if only the American Bishops would actually stand up for a matter of faith instead of trying to get involved in matters such as illegal immigration which are prudential judgments not within their purview.
 
dmelosi said:
I have to disagree. To be a democratic politician you have to be pro abortion. The democratic platform very cleary states it is pro abortion.

The Republican platform clearly states that it is pro life.

It is such a huge contradiction to be pro life yet for a pro abortion party.
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The Republican Party is simply not pro-life. I will only be satisfied if the Court defines the human person as someone deserving of the total protection of the law from the first instant his life begins at fertilization. To simply overturn Roe and Doe by telling each state to make its own laws about abortion is totally unacceptable. dmelosi, this is something we must realize. The fact of the matter is that the word pro-life has lost it’s meaning.

So-called pro-lifer Senator John McCain said: “I believe that we need to fund embryonic stem cell research. This is a tough issue for those of us in the pro-life community.”
 
bones_IV said:
The Republican Party is simply not pro-life. I will only be satisfied if the Court defines the human person as someone deserving of the total protection of the law from the first instant his life begins at fertilization. To simply overturn Roe and Doe by telling each state to make its own laws about abortion is totally unacceptable. dmelosi, this is something we must realize. The fact of the matter is that the word pro-life has lost it’s meaning.

So-called pro-lifer Senator John McCain said: “I believe that we need to fund embryonic stem cell research. This is a tough issue for those of us in the pro-life community.”
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The term pro life originally meant against abortion. Pro choice meant for abortion. People with guilty conciouses expanded that to include the other issues (you have mentioned above) and I agree with you completely on their importance.
BUT
I do not know what party you affiliate yourself with, but republicans as a party are pro life (according to orignal meaning) and democrats are anti life (according to original meaning)
SO
the Republican party is pro life
the Democratic party is anti life
 
dmelosi said:
The term pro life originally meant against abortion. Pro choice meant for abortion. People with guilty conciouses expanded that to include the other issues (you have mentioned above) and I agree with you completely on their importance.
BUT
I do not know what party you affiliate yourself with, but republicans as a party are pro life (according to orignal meaning) and democrats are anti life (according to original meaning)
SO
the Republican party is pro life
the Democratic party is anti life
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After 34 years all pro-lifers have to celebrate is a Supreme Court decision that literally invites the pro-abortion side to come back and challenge them again.
 
All the desicion in the Supreme Court did was outlaw one form of murdering an unborn child. Yet the same number of babies are murdered daily.
 
Bravo. Now it is time for the Bishops of the United States to aggressively denounce Catholic policitions and all elected officials who support abortion and gay marriages and they should do so daily in a public forum.
 
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