Pope's call for interfaith day of prayer provokes debate

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gurneyhalleck1 said:
What still bugs me about Catholicism, and it’s another thing that makes it hard for me to “adapt,” is the inconsistency at times. Take a gay wedding. If a Catholic calls into Catholic Answers Live and says “My brother is gay and is asking me to come to his wedding? Should I?” Jimmy Akin and company would give the resounding reply: NO WAY. It is a sign that you affirm the validity of the gay “marriage” and that you give tacit support to the whole thing. It’s a positive acknowledgement of it. Or if someone calls in and says, “Should I attend a Baptist service my friend invited me to? I really like the music and enthusiasm of the parish!?” The Catholic response again would be NOPE. And if a caller asked, should I go to a house-warming party for my sister-in-law who is cohabitating with a guy? We know what the response would be.

So why, after all that being said, is it ok to do the deepest, most meaningful, contemplative, and active action of all that we can take toward God—pray, with people who doubt or flat out reject our God but are praying to their false god? This is far more grave a sin to acknowledge and pray along with someone to a false god than to enter the home of a cohabitating couple I would think. This gets down to an acknowledgement of deity whether the participants actively believe that or not. Why would we have the True God and pray along with non-believers to their god?

I don’t think this is much ado about nothing. I think it follows a dangerous highway that the catechism set forth with things like CCC841, etc. It’s a murky pond they’re swimming through and I find it terrifying.
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I’ve read in the book “Witness to Hope” by George Weigel, which is a biography of Pope JP2, that the way they did that interfaith prayer meeting at Assisi, when Pope JP2 initiated it, was like this: people representing the various faiths prayed with their own groups. In other words, the various faiths prayed separately, there was no joint prayer, but apart from the prayer, they came together and spent time together. Thus, the representatives of animist and traditional tribal faiths would go and pray for peace, and the Catholics would also pray, separately with their own groups. Then, after finishing their prayers, they would spend the rest of the day together. According to Weigel’s book, it was understood that actually praying together would be “syncretism” - and they chose not to do that. But the positive side of the prayer meeting was that various faiths were gathered in the city of Assisi, and they prayed for peace at the same time, although the various groups did not pray together.

Maybe, Pope B16 is going to organize this exactly the same way it was done during Pope JP2’s time?
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
So why, after all that being said, is it ok to do the deepest, most meaningful, contemplative, and active action of all that we can take toward God—pray, with people who doubt or flat out reject our God but are praying to their false god? This is far more grave a sin to acknowledge and pray along with someone to a false god than to enter the home of a cohabitating couple I would think. This gets down to an acknowledgement of deity whether the participants actively believe that or not. Why would we have the True God and pray along with non-believers to their god?
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I don’t see it as our God and their god or true God and false gods but rather as different perspectives of God. These perspectives can range from completely false to completely true but if people of different faiths join together in a respectful search and celebration of their common perspectives whilst meditating on different perspectives than that is a good thing. I don’t see it as giving up Catholicism but sharing Catholicism and better understanding others through mutual respect.
 
Above all else we must live by the greatest commandments, and the lawyer challenged Jesus, by saying who is my neighbour? Within a mile radius of where I live, there are Christians of many denominations, Muslims, Sikh, Jews, Hindu atheists and others. These are my neighbours Jesus commanded me to love, I should even pray for my enemies.

We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers despite all our differences. Centuries ago where I live Christians were killing each other for wrong beliefs. Now it is a great joy that Christians of many denominations can pray together, and pray for each other, we just need to tear down the barriers in our own heart

Every blessing

Eric
 
1 Corinthians 10:18-22*(New International Version, ©2011)

*18 Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

I believe that when other gods are worshipped, then a demon is being worshipped.

Daniel 10:12-14*(New International Version, ©2011)

*12 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

Daniel 10:20-21*(New International Version, ©2011)

*20 So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
 
In the past, I was quite involved in interfaith activities. I do understand the peril of relativism, and I have special affection for Pope Shenouda III (being the only Pope who ever threw holy water at me). What happens in the intefaith movement is that interfaith becomes almost a second religion. One acts in the movement as a member of one’s own “faith tradition”, but inevitably with each “faith tradition” having its own claims to its truthfulness, one, out of charity and love, drops these claims in favor of working together. This is as true for Jews, Muslims, Baha’is, Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, as it is for Christians. We all believe in the “correctness” of our beliefs.

What you end up with is a bunch of liberal Christians, Muslims and Jews talking to a bunch of liberal Buddhists, HIndus, and Jains, etc.

I attended the Parliament of the World’s Religions in 1993, in Chicago. I was a Baha’i at the time. All the people I knew there were people from the Bay Area who were part of the interfaith movement, and none were Baha’is. I really enjoyed the friendship and fellowship of that movement, but we must, all of us, be aware of compromising our beliefs.

And we must remember that the goal of the ecumenical movement is Christian unity. The goal of the interfaith movement is not unity.
AngloCatholic1 said:
I support the Pope’s action whole-heartedly. This is NOT an event which asks Christians to “compromise” their theology or their creed. It’s an event hosted by Christians who wish to invite others to pray for WORLD PEACE. This is a beautiful message to a world torn apart by hate, violence, capitalist greed and religious fanaticism. If you are a Christian then you will KNOW, as St. Francis of Assisi did, that Christ is the AUTHOR of all life. He is also LOVE itself. So we have nothing to fear by associating with others who recognize the importance of learning to get along with each other in peace and harmony!

Pray for Benedict XVI, and ask St. Francis to pray for him too. Amen! 🙂
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gentle_atheist said:
I am not blaming God for a man’s character. I am blaming God for not making it clear to man which religion is the true religion. For example, the Resurrection is supposed to prove that Christianity is the true religion. But the Ascension destroyed all proof of the Resurrection. Why provide proof and then destroy that proof?
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The Resurrection was Christ’s victory over Death and the Devil. The Resurrection also confirmed that everything Jesus said would happen to himself had been fulfilled. The Apostle Thomas, who did not see the Resurrected Christ at first, had to see with his own eyes. Christ before Thomas says, blessed are those who do not see yet believe. So, there is a degree to which Christ’s Resurrection is accepted in faith, apart from scientific verification.

Christ, however, does not leave the Apostles without proof: He gives them the Holy Spirit and the power to heal the sick and perform miracles. He also institutes the Eucharistic Sacrifice in memorial of his own death and resurrection.

Even if Jesus were to remain on earth in the same manner as He did the 40 days after the Resurrection, it would not be proof to many people today. They would argue, for example, that his wounds were self-inflicted and that He never died in the first place. They would ask for a notarized death certificate.
 
I read this:
ddarko said:
I don’t understand. Lets say a group or a nation has a religion where they worship a tree. Do you think it right to ask them to pray for world peace? What ever happened to the fact that these people are engaged in idolatry?

What about polytheist? Those who love to use occult practices etc? Do you think its still ok?

While I think the Pope’s intentions are nice in a movie, but what he is saying is not consistent and really carries no weight other than an emotional dimension. You can’t just ask people to do their own thing. It automatically implies that those who worship a tree, worship through occult practices for an example are also actually speaking to God :confused:

Now I love our Pope but I think this is a bit of a mistake.
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Then I read this:
Joseph_L_Varga said:
I’ve read in the book “Witness to Hope” by George Weigel, which is a biography of Pope JP2, that the way they did that interfaith prayer meeting at Assisi, when Pope JP2 initiated it, was like this: people representing the various faiths prayed with their own groups. In other words, the various faiths prayed separately, there was no joint prayer, but apart from the prayer, they came together and spent time together. Thus, the representatives of animist and traditional tribal faiths would go and pray for peace, and the Catholics would also pray, separately with their own groups. Then, after finishing their prayers, they would spend the rest of the day together. According to Weigel’s book, it was understood that actually praying together would be “syncretism” - and they chose not to do that. But the positive side of the prayer meeting was that various faiths were gathered in the city of Assisi, and they prayed for peace at the same time, although the various groups did not pray together.

Maybe, Pope B16 is going to organize this exactly the same way it was done during Pope JP2’s time?
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I think the first post is filled with a lot of fearful extrapolations and tends to promote extravagant speculations.

The second post sounds sensible and grounded in reality.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
All the Non-Christians present will just be praying to the emty air or to demons, their prayers will have no power or benefit.

The Christians present should comment that they want peace with all of those assembled from other religions and that people need to not hurt or hate each other from other religions, etc. But truthfully the idol worshippers there should be told that they are worshipping fallen angels/demons who are against God as the Holy Scriptures clearly tech from Paul back to the Old Testament. The monotheists present are also worshipping demon princes with their false religions such as the Prince of Persia oe the Prince of Greece that the angels battle against according to the Holy Scriptures. I wonder which demon Prince that is named or unnamed is the ones the Muslims worship as Allah?

Lots of Demons being prayed to that day!
 
Revelation 9:20-21

20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Are the religions of the magic arts invited?
 
2 Corinthians 6:15-25 (New International Version, ©2011)

15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[a]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will live with them
and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they will be my people.”**

17 Therefore,

“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”[c]

18 And,

“I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”d**
 
The idea of interfaith conversations and working together on common problems is a good one. Just about every religion shares a belief in God, in compassion, in justice, and in forgiveness.
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The obstacle we need to overcome is the assertion of some leaders of some faiths that they alone have access to the full truth, and therefore all other religions are inferior.

 We see this most noticably in Islam at the present time. While most Muslims are moderates, enough are fanatics to create the terrorism we face today. 

 But it also exists among three major groups of Christians. (1) Certain Orthodox who I find absolutely convinced that they are the one true church. (2) Certain evangelical Protestants who are adamant in insisting they have alone have the correct understanding of scripture. (3) Traditional Catholicism, which claims that it is the one and only faith that embodies the full splendor of revealed truth. 

 It seems that mainline Protestantism is the form of Christianity most open to honest dialogue, the most generous when dealing with other faiths, but that seems to be losing out numerically. This includes Presbyterians, Anglicans, Methodists, United Church of Christ - plus various (not all) Lutherans and Baptists, too 

 Isn't this sad? I, for one, think human beings are limited in their comprehension of this vast universe, so we all need to be modest in our pretensions. Our spiritual ancestors had no idea that there may be a million stars, even a million solar systems, out there. When I read the Church Fathers, for example, I recognize that they were brilliant for their era but totally out-of-touch with much of the knowledge that we have today. This idea so prevalent in Christianity that 'older is better' - that we prove our point if we can quote ancient and medieval scholars who agree with us - is mistaken. There has been considerable nonsense peddled as Christianity when, in reality, it was full of superstition, guess work, and primitive paganism.

  The challenge if to make religion a bridge rather than a barrier. God bless people of every creed, color, culture and country. No exceptions.
 
Non-Christian faiths pray to demons. I think we can trust what the apostles say about this.
 
I just posted this in another thread, but I see it applies to this discussion to an even greater degree.

It was said that Abba Macarius the Great whilst walking in the desert saw the skull of a dead man. With his stick he struck the skull. It then spoke to Macarius:
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Macarius then replied: "Who are you to speak to me like this?"
The skull said to him, "I was a pagan during the time of the pagans. I have been allowed to speak with you."
Macarius then asked, "Are you at peace, or do you suffer?"
The skull said to him, "I am being punished. Just as the sky is high over the earth, so too is there a river of fire boiling over our heads and underneath us, lapping over our feet. We stand in the middle, unable to look at one another because our backs are joined to each other. But at the moment when someone offers a great supplication for us, we gain a little peace."
Macarius asked him, "What is this peace?"
The skull said to him, "For the blink of an eye we see each other's faces."
When Macarius heard this, he wept and cried out before asking, "Are there worse punishments than yours?"
The skull said to him, "Yes, for below us is punishment whose fire -- whose terrible fire-- is even darker and more pitiless... As for us since we did not know God, we were not cast into this punishment below, but those who know God and reject Him have been cast below us."
 
The notion that those who did not know God are subject to eternal punishment is typical of a narrow, bigoted Christianity without compassion - and explains why there has been so much evil done in the name of religion over the centuries. Even Aquinas favored the execution of ‘heretics’.
Code: 
I agree with Jesus. Who are we to judge? And when it came to condemning people to the 'fires of hell' he didn't utter a word about doctrine or church affiliation. When did we see you hungry? Matt. 25:31-46. Actually, I don't believe that our loving, forgiving Christ sends very many to hell. This threat has been used to scare people and undergird the church's power for centuries. 

We can believe in a vindictive, vengeful God or one who truly loves us like a good father, who is ready to forgive us 70 x 7 times and more. A recent study found that many Christians choose the former. I choose the latter. If 'God is love", as scripture tells, how can it be otherwise?

 The more interfaith contact and dialogue the better.
 
The Christian faith is not built on what any recent unnamed study says about attitudes expressed by people who claim to be Christians, and I’ll thank you not to set up false dichotomies concerning God based on your desire to support events like the one described in this thread. If you want to support the event and others like it, then by all means be my guest, but don’t tell those who don’t see the world as you do that they are bigots worshiping some demonic corruption of God that you made up.

My God is the God of Jacob, who wrestled with that deceiver for hours to humble him and get him to admit his name. I likewise, in following that God, have been similarly convicted. To approach the true God, the non-believers can’t be shielded from having to go through the same experience by not being told to leave their heresies and blasphemies. I refuse to coddle a Christ-denying heretic just because he is willing to pray with me. I am not willing to pray with him. My God is not the god of the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Atheists, the whatevers. No.
 
firstmode said:
Non-Christian faiths pray to demons. I think we can trust what the apostles say about this.
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But Paul did not speak of non-Christian faiths in general, but of the polytheistic religions of the Greco-Roman world.

Edwin
 
There are many many idol based faiths alive today all over the world. If any of them appear on this day of prayer, then Christians will be praying to God along side people praying to demons. BTW, Allah, the moon god, is an idol, even if they do not know it anymore.
 
firstmode said:
All the Non-Christians present will just be praying to the emty air or to demons, their prayers will have no power or benefit.
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You believe God only listens to the prayers of christians? If a christian and nonchristian recite the same prayer, is one given preference over the other? What if it is two christians but one has not gone to church in the last six months? What if to Catholics say the same prayer but one has committed fornication and one has committed adultry?
 
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