Pope's call for interfaith day of prayer provokes debate

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Lisel said:
You believe God only listens to the prayers of christians? If a christian and nonchristian recite the same prayer, is one given preference over the other? What if it is two christians but one has not gone to church in the last six months? What if to Catholics say the same prayer but one has committed fornication and one has committed adultry?
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Here is an example where God did not hear the prayers of the Jews while they were celebrating his feasts and fasting for him because they had the wrong intentions. I fully believe God can just decide to not listen to someones prayers because it is mentioned in the Holy Scriptures.

What is your proof that he always hears peoples prayers?

Isaiah 1:

10 Hear the word of the LORD,
you rulers of Sodom;
listen to the instruction of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
 
I think from the Islamic standpoint, and this might just be my understanding, Allah is the word for “God” and despite it being a title used by pagan moon-god worshippers, Muslims used the word “God” or “Allah” for the One God they believe in that is in the Koran. Just like Elohim is used to describe our Lord in the Bible, elohim could also be applied to pagan deities in the OT. The ancient Hebrews used the word “Elah” for God as well. This term could be applied to demonic deities, false gods also; and yet no Hebrew would’ve charged another Hebrew with worshipping false gods for using this term?

That aside, I agree with you that mixed company prayer in which a false god is invoked taints all involved and is a dangerous activity.
firstmode said:
There are many many idol based faiths alive today all over the world. If any of them appear on this day of prayer, then Christians will be praying to God along side people praying to demons. BTW, Allah, the moon god, is an idol, even if they do not know it anymore.
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firstmode said:
All the Non-Christians present will just be praying to the emty air or to demons, their prayers will have no power or benefit.

The Christians present should comment that they want peace with all of those assembled from other religions and that people need to not hurt or hate each other from other religions, etc. But truthfully the idol worshippers there should be told that they are worshipping fallen angels/demons who are against God as the Holy Scriptures clearly tech from Paul back to the Old Testament. The monotheists present are also worshipping demon princes with their false religions such as the Prince of Persia oe the Prince of Greece that the angels battle against according to the Holy Scriptures. I wonder which demon Prince that is named or unnamed is the ones the Muslims worship as Allah?

Lots of Demons being prayed to that day!
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Wow! Could you be a little more emphatic about your beliefs? I disagree, but respectfully.
 
meltzerboy said:
Wow! Could you be a little more emphatic about your beliefs? I disagree, but respectfully.
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I stand firm with Paul’s opinion:

Galatians 4:

8 Before you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist. 9 So now that you know God (or should I say, now that God knows you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?

2 Corinthians 4:4

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
 
firstmode said:
I stand firm with Paul’s opinion:

Galatians 4:

8 Before you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist. 9 So now that you know God (or should I say, now that God knows you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?

2 Corinthians 4:4

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
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If a religion is unable to see the glorious light of the Good News, that Christ is the exact likeness of God, then they are being blinded and worship the god of this world, Satan.
 
meltzerboy said:
Wow! Could you be a little more emphatic about your beliefs? I disagree, but respectfully.
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Sir, I also feel the exact same way about Judaism:

2 Corinthians 3:12-17

12 Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.

16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Paul’s message across Corinthians and Galatians is consistent.
 
firstmode said:
Sir, I also feel the exact same way about Judaism:

2 Corinthians 3:12-17

12 Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.

16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Paul’s message across Corinthians and Galatians is consistent.
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There’s no point in arguing even though I have sufficient knowledge of the Old Testament to do so. I’m on this site primarily to learn about Catholicism rather than to make a case for Judaism. Neither of us is going to convince the other anyway. I may disagree with your beliefs but I admire the strength of your conviction.
 
I promise I am not trying to have an argument with you or convert you. I am posting because I feel this interfaith prayer meeting is wrong and because I belive that God hears those of us who follow Jesus Christ as the messiah and as God. I am direcrting these thoughts to all religions that may be present at this meeting, they are either praying to demon/demon princes/fallen angels or not praying to anyone at all. Jesus Christ is our intercessor, I am not sure God even hears the prayers of someone who does not follow his Son.
 
Nice to be back with great friends like you, Marcus!

The tough thing about forums is that in a way all these arguments seem to come close to proslytizing!! Whenever we defend our faith and encourage others to adopt it we’re in that zone. Hard not to in a religious forum…some don’t do it intentionally but it just happens in the course of a debate I think?
 
Thanks for the reply. What is your source material that says that God hears our prayers on our intent, no matter what statue or god we are praying to?

I think the Apostle Paul is very clearly against this and I posted numerous quotes from him on what he thinks about people that worship other Gods.

I just think it is important to focus on where we get these ideas and feelings rather than focusing on the maybes and the by God’s Grace, and the but God is good He would not do that arguments. My position, backed up by verses from Isaiah and Paul’s letters is that when people pray to other gods, they are praying to the empty air or worshiping and praying to a demon. Isaiah also says that God does not hear prayers under certain circumstances and that religious ceremonies done outside of his instruction and teaching revile him and are useless.

There are many gods in the Old Testament, Baal included, where God had their followers destroyed. Why didn’t God hear the prayers of all the Baal and other worshipers?
 
firstmode said:
I stand firm with Paul’s opinion:

Galatians 4:

8 Before you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist. 9 So now that you know God (or should I say, now that God knows you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?

2 Corinthians 4:4

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
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vHere is an example where God did not hear the prayers of the Jews while they were celebrating his feasts and fasting for him because they had the wrong intentions. I fully believe God can just decide to not listen to someones prayers because it is mentioned in the Holy Scriptures.

What is your proof that he always hears peoples prayers?

Isaiah 1:

10 Hear the word of the LORD,
you rulers of Sodom;
listen to the instruction of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

2 Corinthians 6:15-25 (New International Version, ©2011)

15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[a]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will live with them
and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they will be my people.”**

17 Therefore,

“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”[c]

18 And,

“I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians 10:18-22*(New International Version, ©2011)

*18 Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

I believe that when other gods are worshipped, then a demon is being worshipped.

Daniel 10:12-14*(New International Version, ©2011)

*12 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

Daniel 10:20-21*(New International Version, ©2011)

*20 So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.

Revelation 9:20-21

20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.**
 
Interfaith prayer is a bunch of Christians praying to God and everyone else praying into the empty air or to demons/fallen angels.
 
Good night. I’m against this event that Pope Benedictus XVI wants to make because there were a time, at the beginning of Christianit that the people how converted to Christian’s creed denied to worship with the “gods” in Pantheon, many had died, being martirized, so the problem here is the example the Pope is giving to the world, that Jesus Christ is in the same plane as the others “gods”, that Catholic Church was created to be the same with the other religions, but their faith are in “gods” created by humans, instead Jesus, how is God Himself told us that He is the Way, the Truth, so others religions are falses, and Catholic Church is the only religion that He gave us to workship him.
Monique.
 
That is an interesting opinion. Can you prove your opinion with the scriptures?
 
Looks like we’ve started a Marvel avatar trend! I’m such a trend-setter! LOL :p:o:D
 
Apart from the Dark Knight and Green Lantern, I’m just a Marvel guy…In the 80’s I was into Comico Comics. They’re long since extinct :(. I’d wager nobody in here even had heard of them…
 
Galactus moderators? Let’s hope there’s a Silver Surfer and Human Torch to counter-balance! 😛
 
Maybe this is why the Pope called an interface prayer day:

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).

See: Pope Benedict XVI’s general audience, Nov. 30 2005.
  1. The Holy Spirit is not only present in other religions through authentic expressions of prayer. “The Spirit’s presence and activity”, as I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio, “affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions” (n. 28).
Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Instruction Dialogue and Proclamation, 19 May 1991, n. 29; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 1 July 1991, p. III).

Source: Pope John Paul II, General Audience, Wednesday 9 September 1998
  1. … Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.
(19*) Cfr. Epist. S.S.C.S. Officii ad Archiep. Boston.: Denz. 3869-72.

Source: Lumen Gentium, (DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH), Pope Paul VI, November 21, 1964, section 16.
 
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