Pope's comment ordination of gay people

  • Thread starter Thread starter DonQuichote1235
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Imdaman said:
If you read Pnewton post he is explaining something more nuanced with regard to sin and how it effects the physche and soul.
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That may be what he said, but it does not make it true.
Just because someone is gay does not automatically mean that they will have a proclivity to another sexual disorder.
Read what I posted up thread, being gay really had nothing at all to do with the crisis, it was situational. Now that we don’t allow anyone adult in the Church to be alone with anyone one under 18, we have done a good job at taking the “situation” away, therefore abuse has declined
 
CilladeRoma said:
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Imdaman:
If you read Pnewton post he is explaining something more nuanced with regard to sin and how it effects the physche and soul.
Click to expand...
That may be what he said, but it does not make it true.
Just because someone is gay does not automatically mean that they will have a proclivity to another sexual disorder.
Read what I posted up thread, being gay really had nothing at all to do with the crisis, it was situational. Now that we don’t allow anyone adult in the Church to be alone with anyone one under 18, we have done a good job at taking the “situation” away, therefore abuse has declined
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Situational! Yeah the situation was gay men in the preisthood. Hence the reason for the Popes comments and the Churches new rules.

Truth is where the proof is at. On one hand Pnewton gave you stats. While on the other hand you gave of personal opinion. SO you are correct in saying, that just because someone says something doesn’t make it true!

Peace!
 
I gave you a link to the actual John Jay report that says differently.
Did you read either of the links I gave up thread?
 
Augustinian said:
I’ve known a number of homosexuals in my day, and they are neurotic guys who are very immature.
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My experience is that the percentage of immature heterosexuals is higher. As witness your next statement:
“straight men just don’t have any respect for homosexuals.”
To base your respect for someone on their sexuality – rather than on their character, talents, knowledge, etc. – is about as immature as it gets.
But you were right when you said “this is a real problem.” Should have ended the sentence there.
 
angel12 said:
But you were right when you said “this is a real problem.” Should have ended the sentence there.
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let’s stipulate, as you suggest, someone’s sexual preferences have no impact on the rest of their character.

How do you intend to convince red blooded males that they should put their feelings aside and allow themselves to be led by gay spiritual leaders?

That is a real problem, I may find Elton John or Boy George to be entertaining characters than I might want to see perform, but I don’t see them as having standing to enter a pulpit and preach to me
 
Augustinian said:
I may find Elton John or Boy George to be entertaining characters than I might want to see perform, but I don’t see them as having standing to enter a pulpit and preach to me
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You do realize the Elton John and Boy George are NOT your typical gay man, right?
 
Augustinian said:
How do you intend to convince red blooded males that they should put their feelings aside and allow themselves to be led by gay spiritual leaders?
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You can’t convince immature people to be mature. It’s sad, but that’s just the way it is.
 
“The researchers conclude that there is no causative relationship between either celibacy or homosexuality and the sexual victimization of children in the Church.”

And yet they had to ignore their own data in order to say this. The data shows that the majority of the abuse was homosexual predation of adolescent victims.
 
Yes, I know.

What about homosexual women?
What about people who are attracted to both?
What about married men/women who seek sexual gratification outside of their partners?
What about people who lie, cheat and steal?

Sin is sin.
 
JimG said:
The data shows that the majority of the abuse was homosexual predation of adolescent victims.
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Which still doesn’t prove causation. It may be as simple as predators seeking positions of trust and power, like heterosexual predators do.
 
I’m not here to debate.
As you say sin is sin.

You know that homosexual acts are sinful.
They can not be condoned and justified.

Those who struggle with the problem and try to be chaste deserve sympathy.
Those who flaunt their problem and reject church teaching on the subject do not deserve sympathy
 
I’m not debating. I am objecting outright to your claim that sinners do not deserve to be in Church or that they do not deserve sympathy (I would use empathy, but…).

Your attitude and language are part of the problem facing the Church. You will never get anywhere calling people “sodomites”.
Sursum-Corda said:
Those who flaunt their problem and reject church teaching on the subject do not deserve sympathy
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Do you feel the same way about other sexual sins like fornication, adultery, mastubation, etc?
 
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We don’t reject Church teaching on the subject. That’s the point. Given that we are to be chaste and religious life is closed to us, what are we to do? What is our vocation and how are we to find community? Because the sense I’m getting right now is that a lot of people would rather we did leave.
 
And this is what I find so, so sad.
We are called to love one another. Period.
Jesus didn’t say love your neighbor only so long as they are just like you.
 
You talk as though homosexual orientation is fixed in stone
It is not.

God did not make you that way forever.
 
Oh, really? :roll_eyes:
Would you care to back that claim up with some scientific evidence, please?
 
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CilladeRoma said:
That may be what he said, but it does not make it true.
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It is no more true than being published in Psychology Today (it is not called “today” without reason). I will put the Church’s eternal teaching on sin against the popularity driven psycho-babble of the world any old day. In the case of the John Jay report, the numbers really do speak for themselves. If there was a “trend” it might be more open to interpretation. Whether you believe 9%, 5%, or less of men are gay, 81% or the activity in the report was homosexual.

The problem with the interpretation in Psychology Today is that there simply is no evidence of what is being said, that all that was an act of opportunity, as if somehow altar servers were the only human beings priest interacted with. Stating something as simple fiat is a sure sign of politics driving conclusions.
 
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