Pope's critic's don't care about kids

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Oh, please. The public schools are 100 times worse than the catholic church, and haven’t even begun to address their problems. You only see what you want to see. Teachers are more likely to be abusive than priests, and I’d be far more worried about a teacher or school official abusing children than any priest.
I stand by what I said. Produce cases of teachers who molested, abused, raped 10, 50, 100, 200 children. And then show me that they were never turned into the authorities.

I’ve taught for over 14 years in a public school district of more than 6000 students and 16 schools. There has been only 1 teacher accused of abuse and it was the school administration that turned him/her in to the police. Nobody has ever said that teachers aren’t capable of abuse, it’s the fact that Church leadership allowed pedophiles to rack up incredible numbers of victims and covered for the pedophiles.
 
This is not a problem of the MEDIA, it’s a problem of our Church. And as long as Catholics continue to try and shift the blame away from pedophile priests and those who covered for them, I believe that we’ll be having this same discussion every few years.
I think one of the major problems here is we’re using today’s standards to try and judge actions that took place decades ago. The Church, to an extent, I think really thought they were doing the best for those children by protecting their dignity as it were, by keeping their names hushed. As a side note, the priest ended up getting protected by proxy.

I’m not trying to excuse the Church or those involved, but I find it rather unsettling that people are really drumming these horrid things, but had a teacher molested a child 20 years ago, the statute of limitation would have kicked in, preventing any kind of follow up.

So, now we’re in a bit of a rutt, either we dig up a past where it ends up a “he said, she said” situation, where evidence is long since gone, and some of the priests accused are long since dead or we try to give justice to the victims, all the while trying to get to the bottom of something and trying to weed out the liars.

Regardless, very few of us know the full story, and I seriously doubt the media has the full story, so we’re all trying to judge a situation we can’t possibly understand.
 
One aspect that I cannot understand is that many non-Catholics and progressive Catholics are attempting to “use” these horrid acts to change the fabric of our faith. Seems like the political games that are being played right now…let us pray!
 
You say so, but I don’t see it. I heard on the radio about a teacher who was accused of abuse with one pupil and she is now up for 18 years in prison. But I read about a priest who was going around abusing 200 deaf boys since 1950, and he got no punishment.
Once accused he was remoived from his position and spent the next 24 years living with his Mother. The Church did not allow him to carry any ministerial functions during this time time he was excused he was turned into the the police, who declined to prosecute. 24 years AFTER the fact Cardinal Ratzinger was made aware of the situation, waived the statute of limitations and started proceedings to defrock him-he died before the trial could begin.

It is teliing that the NYT did not contact the Priest in charge of prosecuting his case-instead using a handwritten transcript which the Priest claims he did not write.
 
One aspect that I cannot understand is that many non-Catholics and progressive Catholics are attempting to “use” these horrid acts to change the fabric of our faith. Seems like the political games that are being played right now…let us pray!
And many Catholics, because they can not reconcile their politics with the teachings of the Church, are doing the same.
 
One aspect that I cannot understand is that many non-Catholics and progressive Catholics are attempting to “use” these horrid acts to change the fabric of our faith. Seems like the political games that are being played right now…let us pray!
Cannot understand? Ah, but you do understand, and you do see! The allegations against the Church, real or imagined, are merely means and levers towards the objective that you have discerned. And that’s just the thin end of the wedge.
 
One aspect that I cannot understand is that many non-Catholics and progressive Catholics are attempting to “use” these horrid acts to change the fabric of our faith. Seems like the political games that are being played right now…let us pray!
Everything is not political. By trying to make it so, it looks like some Catholics are trying to deflect attention away from an horrific issue. Pray for the children and pray that the Church reveals everything so that we can move forward.
 
When I taught CCD, background checks weren’t required. But I’m perfectly aware of the reforms that have taken place with respect to lay people. However, parishoners teaching CCD, etc., haven’t really been the problem, now have they.

The question is what is the Church doing now to ensure full disclosure of past abuse AND what is the Church going to do in the future if priests molest and abuse children?

Saying that the Pope’s critics don’t care about kids is the same as saying that the Holy Father doesn’t care about kids; both statements are wrong.
I also mentioned seminarians, they not only have to go through these safe child programs, but have to endure extensive mental evaluations into their character and psychological state. The Church has taken extensive steps that men who would abuse children never become priests in the first place.
 
You say so, but I don’t see it. I heard on the radio about a teacher who was accused of abuse with one pupil and she is now up for 18 years in prison. But I read about a priest who was going around abusing 200 deaf boys since 1950, and he got no punishment.
Even if the Church had responded to your level of satisfaction, they are not in a position of authority to dish up prison terms. That is problem of the CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. Why wouldn’t a Priest get prosecuted but a teacher does? You can’t blame the Church for the failures of the State to prosecute offenders.
 
I stand by what I said. Produce cases of teachers who molested, abused, raped 10, 50, 100, 200 children. And then show me that they were never turned into the authorities.

I’ve taught for over 14 years in a public school district of more than 6000 students and 16 schools. There has been only 1 teacher accused of abuse and it was the school administration that turned him/her in to the police. Nobody has ever said that teachers aren’t capable of abuse, it’s the fact that Church leadership allowed pedophiles to rack up incredible numbers of victims and covered for the pedophiles.
So if 600 teachers had raped 500 students for a ratio of 0.83 students per teacher, then that is better than 1 priest had raped 200 students? Rape or molestation is wrong no matter how many is done.
 
I posted a link to an article exposing the states of Calif. and NY slush funds (current) which they draw from to pay teachers who have been accused of sexual improprieties towards or w/ students and are paid not to teach. These public schools do not want the negative publicity so the teachers are quietly sent home and paid to be quiet and not show up.
 
I wonder why priests were moved and and sent to counseling etc. I think it was an attempt to help everybody involved.
 
this thread is about the pope’s critics and what they want out of this deal, right? what are the critics hoping for?
the article’s author doesn’t believe they care about kids— and says that what they seek is the downfall of the Church by discrediting it as a moral voice.
What can the Church do about it? It seems to me that people apparently want is for the pope to do some sort of public penance. What else could satisfy them? The millions of dollars, de-frocking, jail time for perps and abject apologies haven’t done it.
Maybe our Holy Father should kneel down in St Peter’s square with his shirt off and allow all of those without sin to step forward to apply a cat o’nine tails…Bill Maher and Maureen Dowd and others of the righteous could help us all get past this impasse with flicks of the wrist and a bloody show of how much they hate aberrant sexual behavior.
no - you know I don’t mean it… just trying to make the point that our Holy Father is already doing everything he can really do to protect the children and, in fact, help all of us in this goofy culture. We need to help him-- not hurt his efforts by refusing to accept the good he has done in this regard…
 
What can the Church do about it? It seems to me that people apparently want is for the pope to do some sort of public penance. What else could satisfy them? The millions of dollars, de-frocking, jail time for perps and abject apologies haven’t done it. …
Was there enough jail time or enough defrocking?
 
Once accused he was remoived from his position and spent the next 24 years living with his Mother. The Church did not allow him to carry any ministerial functions during this time time he was excused he was turned into the the police, who declined to prosecute. 24 years AFTER the fact Cardinal Ratzinger was made aware of the situation, waived the statute of limitations and started proceedings to defrock him-he died before the trial could begin.
.
The article says:
“Complaints about Murphy’s alleged abuse first came to light in the early 1970s. Instead of being disciplined, he was quietly moved in 1974 by the then archbishop of Milwaukee, William Cousins, to a diocese in northern Wisconsin, where he spent his last 24 years working freely with children.”
news.scotsman.com/news/Pope-39failed-to-act-over.6182665.jp
This seems to be a lot better than having to spend 18 years in jail for abuse of one boy by a high school teacher.
 
I think the problem, at least it the past has been a very simple one:

Let’s say we find a case where a priest has abused 10 children. Now we have a choice,

A) We can move the priest (knowing this could happen again) and do what we can to make him right with the Church and have the victims sign papers and give them a little money and keep the whole thing quiet so the Church isn’t embarrassed. OR

B) We can turn the priest in to the authorities, admit it happened, apologize and treat the victims fairly and compensate them the best way we can so they can get the help needed to live as normal a life as possible.

For a very long time, it appears many in the Church felt the correct answer was “A.” That doesn’t happen unless there is some kind of environment which promotes that answer.
 
The article says:
“Complaints about Murphy’s alleged abuse first came to light in the early 1970s. Instead of being disciplined, he was quietly moved in 1974 by the then archbishop of Milwaukee, William Cousins, to a diocese in northern Wisconsin, where he spent his last 24 years working freely with children.”
news.scotsman.com/news/Pope-39failed-to-act-over.6182665.jp
This seems to be a lot better than having to spend 18 years in jail for abuse of one boy by a high school teacher.
Unfotunately this article was sourced from the original hit piece. He did not spnd his last 24 years freely working woth children-he spent his last 24 years living with his Mother and having NO minesterial duties. None.

Again the future Pope didnt get involved until 20 years later(Pope Benedict was a cleric in Germany when the allegations intitally surfaced). Fr Murhpy died before the trail could commence.

The Church did not have the power to put this man in jail. The only power they had was to put himslef someplace where he would do no more harm. Which they did. There are absolutely no allegations that he abused anyone after he was removed from his poistion at the School for the Deaf. If people are upset he didnt go to jail why arent they picketing the District Attorneys office that declined to prosecute him?

corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDkxYmUzMTQ1YWUyMzRkMzg4Y2RiN2UyOWIzNDVkNDM=
 
Did the NY Times ever cover the fact that former teacher Kevin Jennings,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Jennings

the current “safe school Czar”, failed to report his knowledge about an underage male student’s sexual involvement with an adult male? Or did it report that one of Jennings’ heroes is Harry Hay,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hay

a gay activist who participated in numerous NAMBLA conferences?

wikisposure.com/NAMBLA

I think if the NY Times is really interested in sexually exploited youth, it should look to the organizations like Planned Parenthood that are still covering up for pedophiles rather than digging up 20-year-old dirt on the Catholic Church, which has been transparent,

jjay.cuny.edu/churchstudy/main.asp

and has implemented reform.
 
Some of you are determined not to be confused w/ the facts. You assume again and again w/out checking your assumptions against facts.
To state that public educators were turned into the police while RC priests were merely transferred is 2010 assumptions of what went on 20 yrs ago and what still goes on in some public institutions that have the $ and clout to control:

**The American Medical Association found in 1986 that one in four girls, and one in eight boys, are sexually abused in or out of school before the age of 18. Two years later, a study included in The Handbook on Sexual Abuse of Children, reported that one in four girls, and one in six boys, is sexually abused by age 18.[xxix] It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher.[xxx]

In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day. One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools. Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders. They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools. One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[xxxi] Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.[xxxii]

One of the nation’s foremost authorities on the subject of the sexual abuse of minors in public schools is Hofstra University professor Charol Shakeshaft. In 1994, Shakeshaft and Audrey Cohan did a study of 225 cases of educator sexual abuse in New York City. Their findings are astounding.

All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach. Only 35 percent suffered negative consequences of any kind, and 39 percent chose to leave their school district, most with positive recommendations. Some were even given an early retirement package.[xxxiii]

Moving molesting teachers from school district to school district is a common phenomenon. And in only 1 percent of the cases do superintendents notify the new school district.[xxxiv] According to Diana Jean Schemo, the term “passing the trash” is the preferred jargon among educators.[xxxv]

Shakeshaft has also determined that 15 percent of all students have experienced some kind of sexual misconduct by a teacher between kindergarten and 12th grade; the behaviors range from touching to forced penetration.[xxxvi] She and Cohan also found that up to 5 percent of teachers sexually abuse children.[xxxvii] Shakeshaft will soon be ready to release the findings of a vast study undertaken for the Planning and Evaluation Service Office of the Undersecretary, U.S. Department of Education, titled, “Educator Sexual Misconduct with Students: A Synthesis of Existing Literature on Prevalence in Connection with the Design of a National Analysis.”[xxxviii]**
 
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