Pope's family synod: No changes, but everything has changed

[gilliam]

VATICAN CITY (AP) — It’s now quite certain that Pope Francis’ big summit on family issues won’t endorse any changes to church doctrine on the church’s teaching about homosexuality or whether civilly remarried Catholics can receive Communion.

And yet, it seems, everything has changed.

From the crucial role African bishops have played in the debate, to calls to remove “intrinsically disordered” from the church’s language on gays, to the freedom bishops now enjoy to speak their minds on once-taboo issues, Francis’ synod on the family has at the very least shaken up the church for years to come.

And if Francis has his way, there’s more ahead.

Francis delivered a sleeper bombshell of a speech over the weekend kicking off the final week of the synod in which he called for nothing less than a revolution in the concept of the Catholic Church itself. He said it’s not a top-down organization with the pope in charge but rather an inverted pyramid where the summit — the pope — is underneath and in service to the “holy faithful people of God” who are its base.

He called for a “healthy decentralization” of authority on certain problems from Rome to local bishops’ conferences, and said the papacy itself should be rethought, with the pope guiding the church but really just one bishop among many, one Catholic among many.

news.yahoo.com/popes-family-synod-no-changes-everything-changed-182929101.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

 

[LongingSoul]

Indeed, many participants have spoken about the remarkable freedom they now feel to speak about previously taboo topics — encouraged by the Jesuit pope to use the Jesuit spiritual exercise to discern what God really wants from them. That has implications for how bishops at home will deal with pastoral issues, listening to their flock more and perhaps being more creative in their ministry than merely reciting doctrine. And it may well trickle down to ordinary Catholics, called upon to discern in their conscience what God wants from them.

Wonderful!

 

[dans0622]

Indeed, many participants have spoken about the remarkable freedom they now feel to speak about previously taboo topics — encouraged by the Jesuit pope to use the Jesuit spiritual exercise to discern what God really wants from them. That has implications for how bishops at home will deal with pastoral issues, listening to their flock more and perhaps being more creative in their ministry than merely reciting doctrine. And it may well trickle down to ordinary Catholics, called upon to discern in their conscience what God wants from them.

Wonderful!

I haven’t been around that long but in the last 20 years of university, seminary, religious order, canon law school and tribunal work, I’ve heard people (priests, bishops, everybody) talking about all the things being talked about at this Synod…

I guess, like the article’s headline says, nothing really changes.

Dan

 

[Elizium23]

Uh, that’s hardly a revolution, that is the way the Church has been understood since Jesus washed the feet of His disciples.

Thus the Holy Father’s title, “Servant of the Servants of God”.

 

[ProVobis]

Uh, that’s hardly a revolution, that is the way the Church has been understood since Jesus washed the feet of His disciples.

.

It’s the “spirit of the synod” that counts.

 

[LongingSoul]

I haven’t been around that long but in the last 20 years of university, seminary, religious order, canon law school and tribunal work, I’ve heard people (priests, bishops, everybody) talking about all the things being talked about at this Synod…

I guess, like the article’s headline says, nothing really changes.

Dan

It’s not the issues that are changed but the Churchs way of addressing them. Pope Francis keeps stating he wants greater ‘synodality’ and ‘collegiality’ and even ‘conversion of papacy’ so while still in keeping with the Apostolic Church… ‘is open to a new situation’.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

VATICAN CITY (AP) — It’s now quite certain that Pope Francis’ big summit on family issues won’t endorse any changes to church doctrine on the church’s teaching about homosexuality or whether civilly remarried Catholics can receive Communion.

And yet, it seems, everything has changed.

From the crucial role African bishops have played in the debate, to calls to remove “intrinsically disordered” from the church’s language on gays, to the freedom bishops now enjoy to speak their minds on once-taboo issues, Francis’ synod on the family has at the very least shaken up the church for years to come.

And if Francis has his way, there’s more ahead.

Francis delivered a sleeper bombshell of a speech over the weekend kicking off the final week of the synod in which he called for nothing less than a revolution in the concept of the Catholic Church itself. He said it’s not a top-down organization with the pope in charge but rather an inverted pyramid where the summit — the pope — is underneath and in service to the “holy faithful people of God” who are its base.

He called for a “healthy decentralization” of authority on certain problems from Rome to local bishops’ conferences, and said the papacy itself should be rethought, with the pope guiding the church but really just one bishop among many, one Catholic among many.

news.yahoo.com/popes-family-synod-no-changes-everything-changed-182929101.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

That it even needs to be said that Pope Francis won’t endorse any changes to doctrine disturbs me. It suggests that the church is free to change its colors whenever it so chooses. Doctrine cannot be changed with the old being scrapped in favor of innovations. I do like Pope Francis’s view of a decentralized church since papal supremacy is a fairly recent historical innovation difficult to find in early church history.

 

[mikekle]

That it even needs to be said that Pope Francis won’t endorse any changes to doctrine disturbs me. It suggests that the church is free to change its colors whenever it so chooses. Doctrine cannot be changed with the old being scrapped in favor of innovations.

Yes, you are right and I totally agree, but the problem is, many christians and even more non-christian, secular people, dont know this…why do you think all the mainstream media was so ‘Pope crazy’ back in Sept when he came…usually when it comes to Christianity, the MM takes shots at or will never side with CC (abortion, gay marriage, other issues).

I mean, I watched a lot of news, and never once did I hear ONE negative thing said about him, or christianity in general, (this is coming from the MM???) It wasnt until it looked like he may have given his support to Kim Davis did they say they were disappointed in him, but that was cleared up quickly, and the MM was back to loving christianity again…They are under the impression the CC is loosening up on old outdated ideas.

There are way too many misinterpreted or outright false statement accredited to Francis on FB and other sites, with 100s of 1000s ‘liking’ or agreeing with them, not even knowing they are totally false??!

There was one that came from a friend of mine that was billed as a Francis quote, it basically said its OK to not attend mass anymore or give money to causes, for a person can find ‘god’ within himself, in nature, in things they enjoy doing. there were over 1000 likes, many comments saying things like “its about time christianity admitted this”…I couldnt believe how many people thought this was true!!!

Ive said before, the Vatican and Pope need to be much more direct in speeches as to our beliefs and laws (in no way is this political either), being vague, or alluding to something only adds fuel to the fire.

 

[graciew]

That it even needs to be said that Pope Francis won’t endorse any changes to doctrine disturbs me. It suggests that the church is free to change its colors whenever it so chooses. Doctrine cannot be changed with the old being scrapped in favor of innovations. I do like Pope Francis’s view of a decentralized church since papal supremacy is a fairly recent historical innovation difficult to find in early church history.

I am not sure that it is innovation as much as following/ imitating his father Ignatious of Loyola. He swore obedience to the Pope like a corpse and at the same time the Jesuits were the only order allowed to challenge th Pope. So I was wondering how that would happen.How he would challenge himself being himself absolutely the authority as Pope . And for the greater glory of God.
And Franciscans who thought that everything had been already discerned by their father St Francis.
So it is all in all religious for me.
Brother Jay explained something about it long ago.

Do not take me by the letter but this is how within my limits I can see it.

 

[Caldera599]

Terrible idea. And no, he’s not the best pope yet. I think his papacy has been terrible lately. I pray that he fixes the course soon

 

[dans0622]

It’s not the issues that are changed but the Churchs way of addressing them. Pope Francis keeps stating he wants greater ‘synodality’ and ‘collegiality’ and even ‘conversion of papacy’ so while still in keeping with the Apostolic Church… ‘is open to a new situation’.

That may be. I was attempting to address the notion that now people are able to talk about “taboo” topics or are now free to say things that couldn’t be said before. First of all, I don’t know where this “taboo” term comes from or why I keep seeing it in the context of Synod topics. Secondly, I see nothing being said now that hasn’t been said, regularly, by people of all ranks in the Church over the course of the past 20 years. Obviously, the discussions go beyond 20 years but that’s my own experience in various “clerical” settings…

Dan

 

[ProVobis]

… I do like Pope Francis’s view of a decentralized church since papal supremacy is a fairly recent historical innovation difficult to find in early church history.

I fail to see how a progressive view wants to seek a position held almost 2000 years ago.

 

[LongingSoul]

That it even needs to be said that Pope Francis won’t endorse any changes to doctrine disturbs me. It suggests that the church is free to change its colors whenever it so chooses. Doctrine cannot be changed with the old being scrapped in favor of innovations. I do like Pope Francis’s view of a decentralized church since papal supremacy is a fairly recent historical innovation difficult to find in early church history.

You’ve got your information drastically skewed here. The Pope will always be the final word on matters regarding the faith. That has always been understood since the first century. It was codified at a later date as dogma, but was implicit in teaching from the start.

 

[sarah_j]

I was attempting to address the notion that now people are able to talk about “taboo” topics or are now free to say things that couldn’t be said before. First of all, I don’t know where this “taboo” term comes from or why I keep seeing it in the context of Synod topics. Secondly, I see nothing being said now that hasn’t been said, regularly, by people of all ranks in the Church over the course of the past 20 years. Dan

Right.
The notion that the Church has somehow been “unwelcoming” to sinners for
the past 2000 years is sheer nonsense.
What we are hearing now…even from some members of the hierarchy…
is clamoring for the Church to acommodate sin.
…the Church has always welcomed repentant sinners.

 

[ringil]

I am a real fan of centralized authority of the papacy. Things get too messy with local decision-making. At the same time; Francis is the Pope so I more than respect his opinions on Church governance.

 

[ProVobis]

I am a real fan of centralized authority of the papacy. Things get too messy with local decision-making. At the same time; Francis is the Pope so I more than respect his opinions on Church governance.

Unfortunately since we’re all divided by language and culture, collegiality as defined by Vatican 2 is now almost a requirement. That is not to say the Pope doesn’t have the final word, but it also means the bishops can indeed have vast local power and authority.

 

[Caldera599]

Unfortunately since we’re all divided by language and culture, collegiality as defined by Vatican 2 is now almost a requirement. That is not to say the Pope doesn’t have the final word, but it also means the bishops can indeed have vast local power and authority.

Another reason for exclusive use of Latin in the liturgy.

 

[twf]

While the Pope had the “final word”, he was in distant Rome…communications with Rome could take months or longer. Governance by local Synods with real authority is an ancient norm of the Church. It is only in recent centuries that we saw true local Synods start to disappear (though the Eastern Catholic Churches are still governed by local Synods). Vatican II instituted the national episcopal conferences which was a first step towards a restoration of ancient synodality.
Of course, authentic local synodal authority would be disciplinary, not doctrinal.

 

[HB11]

:thumbsup:doctrine cannot change

 

[HB11]

I get tired of explaining his quotes , but then tell myself at least folks are talking so give me wisdom and patience Lord. The fuss with Kim Davis did crack me up though.

Yes, you are right and I totally agree, but the problem is, many christians and even more non-christian, secular people, dont know this…why do you think all the mainstream media was so ‘Pope crazy’ back in Sept when he came…usually when it comes to Christianity, the MM takes shots at or will never side with CC (abortion, gay marriage, other issues).

I mean, I watched a lot of news, and never once did I hear ONE negative thing said about him, or christianity in general, (this is coming from the MM???) It wasnt until it looked like he may have given his support to Kim Davis did they say they were disappointed in him, but that was cleared up quickly, and the MM was back to loving christianity again…They are under the impression the CC is loosening up on old outdated ideas.

There are way too many misinterpreted or outright false statement accredited to Francis on FB and other sites, with 100s of 1000s ‘liking’ or agreeing with them, not even knowing they are totally false??!

There was one that came from a friend of mine that was billed as a Francis quote, it basically said its OK to not attend mass anymore or give money to causes, for a person can find ‘god’ within himself, in nature, in things they enjoy doing. there were over 1000 likes, many comments saying things like “its about time christianity admitted this”…I couldnt believe how many people thought this was true!!!

Ive said before, the Vatican and Pope need to be much more direct in speeches as to our beliefs and laws (in no way is this political either), being vague, or alluding to something only adds fuel to the fire.