Pope's Jihad Comments

  • Thread starter Thread starter maesoph
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

maesoph

Guest
Has anyone read up on the following story??

cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html

I snipped the offending text from the Vatican web site.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

In the seventh conversation (*4V8,>4H - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: “There is no compulsion in religion”. According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the “Book” and the “infidels”, he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”. The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he says, “is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (F×< 8`(T) is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”.
 
maesoph said:
Has anyone read up on the following story??

cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html

I snipped the offending text from the Vatican web site.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

In the seventh conversation (*4V8,>4H - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: “There is no compulsion in religion”. According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the “Book” and the “infidels”, he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”. The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he says, “is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (F×< 8`(T) is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”.
Click to expand...
Well I for one completely agree with the Pope. It’s really interesting that the Pope receives a lot of flack, by everyone concentrating on a single “two sentence” quote instead of looking at everything he said.

The response is amazing. When you consider that over there in the muslim world, entire nations pray together chanting “Death to America”, during the prayer, and yet that isn’t supposed to be perceived as an insult? How is this supposed to be a peacefull aproach?

Sounds a little like doubletalk , coming from those nations overthere.

In other words they look for things to get angry over, rather than looking for a peaceful resolution.
 
Yes Instead of radical islam focusing on their own problems they try to blame everybody else for their wrong doings and situation. Red Herrings.

God bless,
Jon
 
Pope Benedict explained that those in Islam who in the name of God commit acts of violence act against the true nature of God. Also, that true religion requires conformity to logical and rational though and is in harmony with science. The Pope is a great scholar whose point was lost among most Moslems. Moslem leaders twisted the Pope’s statements to their political benefit. Islam is in a huge upheaval, but we need to live on the same planet with its practitioners. We, in the West, need to hold to our Judeo-Christian roots so we can somehow communicate with them from a strong moral standing so we can at least try to get them to renounce violence as compatible with God. It’s likely a lost cause given the nature of Islamic leadership, I just hope we can outlast them if it comes to that.
 
I agree with the Pope’s statements. And I may say that this brings out the true colors of many Muslims. They can rant, riot, and even insult Our Lord Jesus, but Allah forbid that anything is said regarding Muhammad. Immediately they want to “kill all infidels”. They didnt even understand the message the Pope was conveying. And by their reaction, the Pope words really hit the nail right on the head. God Bless B16…JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!!!
 
I agree with His Holiness. And this is being discussed ad nauseam in the Catholic News Forum here.
 
Yes Instead of radical islam focusing on their own problems they try to blame everybody else for their wrong doings and situation. Red Herrings.
Click to expand...
They quit trying to use philosophy back around the Middle Ages, and now this is what they come to.

I don’t know why anyone bothers to avoid insulting a bunch of fanatics. If the Pope had issued a call to an all-out Crusade, hell, I’d join. :mad:
 
I agree with the Pope’s speech. He was taken completely out of context. He was simply quoting a 14th century Byzantine Emperor’s statement in a neutral way, in order to discuss the Emperor’s philosophy about “forced conversion.” He was not promoting the Emperor’s statement.

**As for the Byzantine Emperor’s statement that was quoted, I agree with it. It was also the reasoning of St. Thomas of Aquinas. A lot of what Mohammed taught was already officially taught by Christianity, therefore not new. But, the things that he introduced that were new and not officially taught by Christianity were “evil and inhuman.” Good examples would be polygamy, the killing of infidels if they didn’t convert, killing of renouncers of their faith, the distortion of the Bible, and rejection of Jesus’ divinity and the Trinity, etc.
**

**Furthermore, the terrorist attacks, the overwhelming support of the terrorists by Islamic leaders, the reasons leading up to the crusades, and the various Quranic verses all prove that the Emporer’s statement was correct. The only way for peace in the Middle East is that Muslims become “moderate” (as President Bush put it) or “cafeteria” Muslims (ie. the peaceful muslims in the US who claims that Islam is a religion of peace), in which they reject the official intolerant and violent doctrines of their religion. **

I mostly think that all this controversy of misinterpreting the Pope’s speech is intentional. They are taking the Pope’s speech out of context on purpose. They are looking for any little loophole they can find in order to exercise their anti-Christian agenda and activities.
 
ComradeAndrei said:
They quit trying to use philosophy back around the Middle Ages, and now this is what they come to.

I don’t know why anyone bothers to avoid insulting a bunch of fanatics. If the Pope had issued a call to an all-out Crusade, hell, I’d join. :mad:
Click to expand...
Fetch my longsword, we will take Antioch in a weeks time! 😃
 
Caesar said:
Fetch my longsword, we will take Antioch in a weeks time! 😃
Click to expand...
This reminds me of that friend who wasn’t really a friend at all, they’re waiting for one wrong move, a twinkle, boy ! do they make hay with it.
 
ComradeAndrei said:
I don’t know why anyone bothers to avoid insulting a bunch of fanatics. If the Pope had issued a call to an all-out Crusade, hell, I’d join. :mad:
Click to expand...
Given the circumstances and the fact that not many people care for the “holy sites” much anymore, it would be you a handful of swiss guards verses the entire Military of Syria, Egypt, Turkey, and possibly Iran. Plus, if Israel doesn’t agree to give you Jerusalem you’d have to fight them too.:eek:

Also, although the original Crusades may have been justified, I don’t think a current one would be considered a “just war” under the Church’s just war doctrine.

**You might want to reconsider your position. 😃 😉 **
 
Yeah, the outrage is ridiculous.

First, the Pope was only quoting a Byzantine emperor…without saying whether or not he endorsed the statement.

If I said, “Hitler said, ‘Jews are evil.’” Is that bad or offensive? No. It’s just the truth.

But…just between you and me…what the Emperor said WAS true. Since Christianity already has the fullness of Truth, anything good in other religions will ALREADY be taught by us. But anything “new” in those religions, or things not taught by us…are therefore bad and false. There is no new goodness or truth outside of those things which Christianity also already teaches.
 
batteddy said:
Yeah, the outrage is ridiculous.

First, the Pope was only quoting a Byzantine emperor…without saying whether or not he endorsed the statement.

.
Click to expand...
Actually, prior to making that quote , he did say it was a “Brusque” statement.

A Definition of brusque: :“blunt in the manner or speech often to the point of ungracious harsness.”

Okay so the Pope essentially stated that the quote was basically ungracious and harsh.

DO THOSE MUSLIM LEADERS EVER READ ANYMORE THAN TWO SENTENCES???:eek:

:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
maesoph said:
"… he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”.
Click to expand...
You know what else is scary about this. Our newspapers never quoted the sentence righ in front of the quote. That statement “startling brusqueness” is a refernce to the ungraciousness and harsness of the emperor’s statement. But does CNN and the rest of the news media ever report this? NO? It’s like something really evil has taken hold of this, and is causing extreme retribution. They have just bombed two Christian Churches in response to the Pope’s statement. I think there will be more.

It is truly amazing how evil is bred from the news agencies, and perpetuated, throughout the world. How they twist the truth around by leaving out significant statements, JUST 1 SENTENCE BEFORE IT.
 
The Pope has now apologised for his speech causing offence to Muslims but he has not retracted any part of his speech and in fact has stated he hoped Muslims would understand the true sense of his words.
 
thistle said:
The Pope has now apologised for his speech causing offence to Muslims but he has not retracted any part of his speech and in fact has stated he hoped Muslims would understand the true sense of his words.
Click to expand...
Slight correction-he did not apologizae. He expessed “regret” that his speech caused so much distress. there is a HUGE difference between “regret” and “apology”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top