Pope's New Year's Message

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seeker1961
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Seeker1961 said:
read this on Huff Po this morning and **was surprised that there was no mention of it here. **

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/01/pope-slams-capitalism-ine_n_2392653.html
Click to expand...
But it talks about how bad unregulated capitalism is! :eek:

😉

I think it’s important to note that World Peace and more equality and cooperation between social classes is only possible with the Grace and Love of God. So many people today think we can do this without grace with a purely secular mindset, whether it’s economics or helping the poor.
 
Unregulated capitalism will lead to an elite rich and a crippled poor class. The only hope for a middle class is the virtues of Christianity. If Christianity fails so will capitalism, because welfare programs cripple capitalism as it kills the motive to work. But Christians need to be the welfare of others in their time of need out of love or those people will go hungry, will go homeless… or the government will need to create welfare for them.

without helping those who cannot help them selves, capitalism will destroy
 
I also was surprised that nobody mentioned it here given that it is a Catholic forum and a New Year but then again :rolleyes: Am I really that surprised given the Holy Father’s critique of capitalism and recent call, echoeing Blessed Pope John XXIII in Pacem en Terris, for a “world community” with a corresponding “world political authority”?

Nah…
 
Capitalism and Democracy doesn’t exist in the Western World.

Time to wake up people. we live in a Oligarchy controled government where Big Global Business Bankers run by a select few extremely rich tell country government leaders what to do, where to go and when to shut up. Ever think of your country leader as just a puppet slave with someone with far greater power holding the strings.
 
Vouthon said:
I also was surprised that nobody mentioned it here given that it is a Catholic forum and a New Year but then again :rolleyes: Am I really that surprised given the Holy Father’s critique of capitalism and recent call, echoeing Blessed Pope John XXIII in Pacem en Terris, for a “world community” with a corresponding “world political authority”?

Nah…
Click to expand...
What? That sounds an awful like the end times and anti-christ ruling and all that jazz… or is that my fundamentalist background influencing those thoughts?
 
Where are the humanitarian values in unregulated capitalism? I predict that the world will continue to grow and prosper but with true humanitarianism in place.
 
  • Pope; “the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism, various forms of terrorism and criminality”.
    -To my knowledge “Unregulated Capitalism” exists nowhere in the world today.
    -The Pope is an intellectual so he must be fully aware that he is roughly equating Capitalism with “terrorism and criminality.”
" the pope called for a new economic model and ethical regulations for markets, saying the global financial crisis was proof that capitalism does not protect society’s weakest members." What the heck is he thinking???

He is vastly oversimplifying what Capitalism actually is and what it means.

As a business person I can tell you that the endless layers of regulation i.e. red tape, rules & laws (often conflicting, always confusing) have a great deal to do with the endless series fo financial crisis in the Western world. It’s not the lack of regulation, it’s the burden of constant overlapping conflicting regulation.:eek:

In 55 years this is the first time in my life that I have questioned the intelligence and insight of a living Pope.

It makes me very sad.
 
I didnt read Pope’s message except from the link but denouncing unregulated capitalism that puts pressure on the poor is something that can and has happened and is no good. Socialism and Communism (as previous popes have talked about) is no good either and even worse would be athiestic socialism and communism. I forgot the name of the book (it may have Memory and Identity by John Paul II) where he talks about the problems with capitalism, socialism and communism. I believe he said his favorite form of government is the monarchy.

The link also said the pope also “strongly reaffirmed the Church’s opposition to gay marriage. Heterosexual marriage had an indispensable role in society, he said.”
I am so glad that the Pope and Cardinal Francis George have recently spoke up on this.
 
He later mentions Communitarianism; “In other words, the desire for peace corresponds to a fundamental moral principle, namely, the duty and right to an integral social and communitarian development, which is part of God’s plan for mankind.” Huh Whu?

-Communitarianism is part of Gods plan for mankind? Communitarianism is a form of European style Social Democracy or Soft Socialism. It works great with a community of Monks, Nuns, or Priests. As for the rest of us, it would inevitably devolve into Socialism, and thus a Nietzschean “strong man” would rise to power as has often happened in such systems in the past.

-This speech/homily is deeply disturbing to me.
 
Floyd_Alsbach said:
He later mentions Communitarianism; “In other words, the desire for peace corresponds to a fundamental moral principle, namely, the duty and right to an integral social and communitarian development, which is part of God’s plan for mankind.” Huh Whu?

-Communitarianism is part of Gods plan for mankind? Communitarianism is a form of European style Social Democracy or Soft Socialism. It works great with a community of Monks, Nuns, or Priests. As for the rest of us, it would inevitably devolve into Socialism, and thus a Nietzschean “strong man” would rise to power as has often happened in such systems in the past.

-This speech/homily is deeply disturbing to me.
Click to expand...
Depends what that word means in that context and the popes meaning when he said that.

God bless
Merry Christmas
 
Floyd_Alsbach said:
-Communitarianism is part of Gods plan for mankind? Communitarianism is a form of European style Social Democracy or Soft Socialism. It works great with a community of Monks, Nuns, or Priests. As for the rest of us, it would** inevitably** devolve into Socialism, and thus a Nietzschean “strong man” would rise to power as has often happened in such systems in the past.
Click to expand...
Inevitably is pretty strong language. What proofs do you have to offer that will guarantee that such a thing will inevitably (unavoidably) occur?
And, if you cannot guarantee that such an occurrence is inevitable, and indeed have examples (religious groupings) of its failure to occur, why make such an argument?

oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/inevitable
Definition of inevitably
adverb
as is certain to happen; unavoidably: inevitably some details are already out of date war inevitably has casualties
 
centurionguard said:
Capitalism and Democracy doesn’t exist in the Western World.

Time to wake up people. we live in a Oligarchy controled government where Big Global Business Bankers run by a select few extremely rich tell country government leaders what to do, where to go and when to shut up. Ever think of your country leader as just a puppet slave with someone with far greater power holding the strings.
Click to expand...
Notice how in both elections Obama got majority support from the top 1% filthy rich. Obama’s closest inner circle of friends are the filthy rich.
 
Floyd_Alsbach said:
He later mentions Communitarianism; “In other words, the desire for peace corresponds to a fundamental moral principle, namely, the duty and right to an integral social and communitarian development, which is part of God’s plan for mankind.” Huh Whu?

-Communitarianism is part of Gods plan for mankind? Communitarianism is a form of European style Social Democracy or Soft Socialism. It works great with a community of Monks, Nuns, or Priests. As for the rest of us, it would inevitably devolve into Socialism, and thus a Nietzschean “strong man” would rise to power as has often happened in such systems in the past.

-This speech/homily is deeply disturbing to me.
Click to expand...
It depends what he means by regulation.
Rules governing the destructive nature of capitolidm have saved it on mote than one occasion.
You show me where unrestrained capitalism has ever succeeded.
If you base any system on pure greed the means used to destroy competition will ulyimatly destroy itsself.
Your confusing a socialism which the church has always opposed. Where the state owns yhr means of production.
With regulations that insure all people have an equal opportunity.
 
  • I am voicing my opinion and fears not writing a dissertation.
    I am a fairly devout and faithful Catholic who is disturbed by the implications of what the pope said.
    -His prepared remarks should not have to be parsed by Canon Lawyers.
 
Floyd_Alsbach said:
He later mentions Communitarianism; “In other words, the desire for peace corresponds to a fundamental moral principle, namely, the duty and right to an integral social and communitarian development, which is part of God’s plan for mankind.” Huh Whu?

-Communitarianism is part of Gods plan for mankind? Communitarianism is a form of European style Social Democracy or Soft Socialism. It works great with a community of Monks, Nuns, or Priests. As for the rest of us, it would inevitably devolve into Socialism, and thus a Nietzschean “strong man” would rise to power as has often happened in such systems in the past.

-This speech/homily is deeply disturbing to me.
Click to expand...
Are you not aware that the “Communitarianism” which he mentions is specifically spoken of in the Vatican II constitution document “Gaudium et Spes”?
"…32. As God did not create man for life in isolation, but for the formation of social unity, so also “it has pleased God to make men holy and save them not merely as individuals, without bond or link between them, but by making them into a single people, a people which acknowledges Him in truth and serves Him in holiness.”(13) So from the beginning of salvation history He has chosen men not just as individuals but as members of a certain community. Revealing His mind to them, God called these chosen ones “His people” (Ex. 3:7-12), and even made a covenant with them on Sinai.(14)
Click to expand...
***This communitarian character ***is developed and consummated in the work of Jesus Christ. For the very Word made flesh willed to share in the human fellowship…"
Click to expand...
***- Gaudium et Spes (Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World), Apostolic Constitution, 1965 (Second Vatican Council) ***
Click to expand...
So as you can see the Holy Father is basing his speech on authoritative pronouncements of the sacred Magisterium. The ‘communitarianism’ he calls for is not lof his own making but rooted in the church’s authentic tradition.
 
No I was not. A spiritual community is a great thing. However, I cannot agree with the sentiments expressed therein, if they pertain to the world as we now know it. Only through the second coming of Christ is such a goal possible, given human nature. So, on a practical level, as a form of gov’t, no way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top