Pope's Revised Prayer "Insulting to Jews"

  • Thread starter Thread starter AgnosTheist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
the problem here seems to be that people cannot perceive any expression of religious belief which expresses itself in exclusive terms to be anything other than offensive.

this has more to do with a rampant and wrong-headed pluralism than with any real insult being given or received.

should pagans be insulted when Jews say that there is only one God and that this God is their God?

should Buddhists be insulted when Christians say that suffering is not merely the way things are but that it conforms us to Christ and makes us Godly?

should Christians be insulted when Muslims tell them that they are tritheists?

meh
 
Steadfast said:
the problem here seems to be that people cannot perceive any expression of religious belief which expresses itself in exclusive terms to be anything other than offensive.
Click to expand...
this proves you wrong:
“Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant.”
Steadfast said:
should Christians be insulted when Muslims tell them that they are tritheists?
Click to expand...
like i said, its all about the figure heads. catholics will be insulted if the Dalai Lama proclaims catholics as idol worshippers.
 
It is one thing to pray for another’s conversion, and it is another thing to mis-state that person’s belief system.

I don’t object to other people not accepting the Catholic faith. I do object to them mis-characterizing it.

Scott
 
scott1228 said:
It is one thing to pray for another’s conversion, and it is another thing to mis-state that person’s belief system.
Click to expand...
and its quite another for a figure head to blanket an entire group of people as unillimunated.

catholics would complain if the Dalai Lama proclaims that catholics and the pope needs to be illuminated. right?
 
AgnosTheist said:
for your own enlightenment, please review the Vatican II revision of the prayer (highlighted in blue in the OP).

well jewish groups around the world find Benedicts version to be UNFRIENDLY. 😃
Click to expand...
Well, there will always be another Pope. Some are smarter than others.
 
Steadfast said:
the problem here seems to be that people cannot perceive any expression of religious belief which expresses itself in exclusive terms to be anything other than offensive.

this has more to do with a rampant and wrong-headed pluralism than with any real insult being given or received.

should pagans be insulted when Jews say that there is only one God and that this God is their God?

should Buddhists be insulted when Christians say that suffering is not merely the way things are but that it conforms us to Christ and makes us Godly?

should Christians be insulted when Muslims tell them that they are tritheists?

meh
Click to expand...
Perhaps it’s the stated desire to absorb and assimilate everybody that makes one shudder most.
 
Valke2 said:
Actually, not many people know this, but the Imam in that pricture had told the Pope that the Quran smells like milk chocolate. That’s why it looks like the Pope is kissing it.
Click to expand...
LOL! oh valke, you made my day. 😃 he does look like he’s smelling it, and enjoying it too!
 
Kaninchen said:
Perhaps it’s the stated desire to absorb and assimilate everybody that makes one shudder most.
Click to expand...
You say “absorb and assimilate”, we say “bring into the Kingdom of God and eternal life”…

Ironically, the insistence of the secularists that we must all keep quiet about our religious beliefs and go about the business of making sure no one is offended sounds remarkably hive-like to me…speaking of absorbing and assimilating.
 
Valke2 said:
Actually, not many people know this, but the Imam in that pricture had told the Pope that the Quran smells like milk chocolate. That’s why it looks like the Pope is kissing it.
Click to expand...
That’s very insulting, Valke!

😉
 
Steadfast said:
Ironically, the insistence of the secularists that we must all keep quiet about our religious beliefs and go about the business of making sure no one is offended sounds remarkably hive-like to me…speaking of absorbing and assimilating.
Click to expand...
you know, i actually agree with you. theres too much political correctness. we should give a little more room to the freedom of giving **negative speech **about somebody. i’m serious! no kidding. 🙂
 
Steadfast said:
You say “absorb and assimilate”, we say “bring into the Kingdom of God and eternal life”…
Click to expand...
Well, you would! 😛
Ironically, the insistence of the secularists that we must all keep quiet about our religious beliefs and go about the business of making sure no one is offended sounds remarkably hive-like to me…speaking of absorbing and assimilating.
Click to expand...
When I lived in the US, I tended to think of such requests as more like neighbors who were asking people with big sound systems to please just keep the noise down.
 
Kaninchen said:
When I lived in the US, I tended to think of such requests as more like neighbors who were asking people with big sound systems to please just keep the noise down.
Click to expand...
And yet, really, Agnos view in the last post (which is remarkably similar to my own, culturally speaking; since I am basically a libertarian) is the quintessential American outlook:

If it doesn’t hurt anybody or infringe up their rights they should be free to do or say it and if anybody doesn’t like it, too damned bad, relocate.

🙂

There’s a reason why Europe will be a muslim federation in fifty years, ruled by shaaria law…you have no defense against it; anything you might try would run completely contrary to your egalitarian, plural convictions.
 
AgnosTheist said:
It seems the new Pope Benedict has a talent for offending other religions. the muslims, the protestants, the jews…who’s next? 😃
Click to expand...
Are you trying to make a point? Are you saying the Church is wrong? The Pope is wrong? Jews are easily offended? Please make a point.
 
Steadfast said:
And yet, really, Agnos view in the last post
Click to expand...
I’m afraid he’s on my ignore list, so I’ll never know.
(which is remarkably similar to my own, culturally speaking; since I am basically a libertarian) is the quintessential American outlook:
Click to expand...
If it doesn’t hurt anybody or infringe up their rights they should be free to do or say it and if anybody doesn’t like it, too damned bad, relocate.
Click to expand...
🙂
Click to expand...
Is it the ‘quintessential’ American outlook? Perhaps you have to be an outsider (we lived in the US for two fairly lengthy periods but we never had any desire to settle) to see such sentiments as yet another way in which Americans congratulate themselves without thinking too deeply about what they’re congratulating themselves on. 😛
 
Kaninchen said:
Is it the ‘quintessential’ American outlook? Perhaps you have to be an outsider (we lived in the US for two fairly lengthy periods but we never had any desire to settle) to see such sentiments as yet another way in which Americans congratulate themselves without thinking too deeply about what they’re congratulating themselves on. 😛
Click to expand...
And the view you’ve given here smacks of that snobbishness Europeans are so fond of buoying themselves up with as their common culture falls down around their ears.

👍

Keep up the good work! Keep cheering yourselves that at least you’re not like those bigoted, stupid, rustic Americans while your churches are empty and you have no real cultural bulwark against the coming jihad.
 
Steadfast said:
And the view you’ve given here smacks of that snobbishness Europeans are so fond of buoying themselves up with as their common culture falls down around their ears.

👍

Keep up the good work, keep cheering yourselves that at least you’re not like those bigoted, rustic Americans while your churches are empty and you have no real cultural bulwark against the coming jihad.
Click to expand...
Amazing, that’s exactly what I was talking about in questioning the American view of themselves on the question of free expression.

Absolute magic.
 
In the words of Brian Sterling, “Intelligence is not a survival skill”

Neither is an ideology however hallowed and well spun it may be.

Ideologies are only as good as they show themselves to be; i.e. they have to work.

The old European liberalism doesn’t work and it’s dying, it just doesn’t know it yet.
 
It’s a big topic, pup…

I do understand that two world wars will shade a peoples self-perception and deeply color the way they interact and I won’t presume to know all about it, but you guys really need to try something older still.

Here it is, are you ready for it?

The Idea of the West.

The West is superior and should be the model for all other cultures and states and it’s okay to think so.

After all, in your heart you know it’s true so no major conversion is necessary!

Imagine the good work the EU could do in the world if it began acting like it believed this again!
 
You seem to be on something of a roll here, I only needed one example to make my point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top