Pope's speech to US Congress [full text] [CC]

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I’m a cradle catholic married to a cradle catholic raising eight catholic children. Yes, I was expecting the pope to mention Jesus. He mentioned Moses and he mentioned people. There was no mention of Jesus. It is important to me, and actually I’m surprised it isn’t to other Catholics. And yes I understand the Eucharist. I believe in the real presence. I know he lives out the gospel–but he’s not Jesus. He is where is is because of Jesus. But still I was expecting a shout out to God. It bothers me he didn’t mention the unborn, it disturbs me that didn’t mention God. Protestants I’m sure were disturbed as well, and for once I don’t blame them. This isn’t helping me learn to love this pope. I said I’m looking for someone to help me out. Not sure why no one seems to want to do that. I didn’t say he’s not a follower of Christ, but I would expect him to acknowledge Christ like he did Lincoln.
Surely, Pope Francis mentioned Lincoln because he was addressing the U.S. Congress, but his very presence and his message spoke of what was unsaid. Maybe not everyone gets this, but I wouldn’t read anything into what the pope did not specifically say to the Congress. The event was televised, but he was there only because he was invited to address the U.S. Congress. He did so in his customary pastoral way.
 
The event was televised, but he was there only because he was invited to address the U.S. Congress. He did so in his customary pastoral way.
Lol, if he’s anything like me, it would have been low on his list of things he feels comfortable doing. I got the feeling that this kind of thing isn’t his favorite. But, he’s holier than me and equipped for it.
 
It’s funny in a way that people at the time claimed to be able to understand the high level theological structures and complexities of the academic professor Pope Benedict, but these same people can’t understand the simple man from South America who has a chemistry certificate and believes we live in a disposable society.

That’s cool though, Pope Francis is in good company. Because everyone claimed to understand the expert on sexual bioethics (JP2) and his comprehensive analysis therein, but no one understood the lawyer turned prophet Paul VI with Humanae Vitae.
I can’t speak for others, but for me he’s very hard to understand because he seems to keep fueling the fire when it comes to the misquote or bad translations or whatever they are. He keeps putting these things out there knowing the press is going to run with wild with them, and usually he doesn’t work very hard at correcting them. I am not very old (35), so John Paul II is the first pope for me but I can’t recall him being constantly misquoted. Pope Benedict didn’t seem to have that problem either. They didn’t make comments ever other day for the press to do that. I really was happy when he became Pope. I was happy because he seemed (and still seems) to be an advocate for the poor. But when he makes comments that easily get twisted to a different meaning yet never seems to learn that his comments are going to be used as ammunition against Catholics it is disheartening. How often have we all heard “Who am I to judge?” As a mom of 8 I hear daily that the pope says catholic women should not reproduce like rabbits. Did he say these things? Yes. Are the taken out of context? Of course they are. The problem I have and what I can’t understand is WHY he keeps making these remarks knowing they are going to be used against us. I also don’t understand why he doesn’t mention things that are important like the abortion and gay marriage. I agree with him that we live in a disposable society. I’ve stated that myself many times. What’s difficult are the remarks he keeps putting out there that are used against Catholics. By now I think he should know better and work to prevent that from happening. That is what I can’t understand
 
Lol, if he’s anything like me, it would have been low on his list of things he feels comfortable doing.
That would make two of us…a hurdle race over the seats of Congress away from cameras towards the exit !!:coolinoff:
 
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Peebo:
I don’t know if there will be a transcript of what Raymond Arroyo said but I was watching it and he definitely did say the death penalty could be “merciful” I can’t quote him word for word but he intimated that it could cause the condemned to seek forgiveness where as he might not if not facing the death penalty…what I did find odd seeing that the Pope along with the American conference of Bishops oppose the death penalty was that a guest priest (can’t remember his name) was in complete agreement with Arroyo…and to be honest I can’t remember if it was Raymond Arroyo or the priest who first made that statement…maybe someone can find the transcript…but yes both of them did agree on the matter

I was watching too. When I watched, it might have been a replay later in the day because it was at night. I don’t know his name either but I have seen him on EWTN a number of times and the guest priest was speaking about the virtues of the death penalty and how it has always been allowed and mentioned the punishment fitting the crime. And he said the death penalty can give life because it allows the person on death row an opportunity to repent before they die, thus obtaining eternal life. I’m not sure either who first brought it up. But I actually found the discussion a bit strange after having just heard the Pope call for the abolishment of the death penalty. Then Bill Donahue started complaining about the media coverage of Pope Francis and I thought to myself, but the Pope just earlier today called for the death penalty to be abolished and EWTN has people talking about it’s virtues. So honestly at that point I had to turn it off.
 
Are you talking about all the Europeans from England, France and Spain who came to the New World as invaders and plundered the societies of the Native Americans and destroyed their civilizations?
That is the past…a past that has seen almost all peoples migrate, conquer, be conquered, enslave, and be enslaved…I’m not talking about them…I’m talking about us…at least those of us who can understand that all societies evolve…who live here and now, and don’t want to lose our nations, our heritage, and our future because somebody else, for whatever reason they can rationalize, believes they have the right to take it away from us…as payback.

Those of you who want to destroy societies because you believe you have some kind of righteous vendetta from the past…go for it. I would suggest, however, that those from south of the border go to Spain, instead of the U.S.,…and take back what the Spanish Conquistadors, accompanied by their Catholic priests, stole from them…take back all the lives lost through the Conquistadors’ conquests…the lives of slaughtered and enslaved Indians, of blacks imported from Africa to South America…make them pay…and, the American Indians can go to Spain and England, and make them pay too…and the Irish can make the English pay, and the Scots…and, the English can go to France, and pay them back for Williams the Conqueror…and the Greeks can go to Rome, the Egyptians to Greece, and pay them all back…rape, pillage, and burn, because it is righteous vengeance…and of course, we haven’t even begun to talk about the Chinese in Asia, the African tribes…the Russians and the peoples from the steppes…or about the American Indians who displaced prior peoples…

But, go ahead…burn us all with your righteous indignation…
 
I know how you feel. All I can say is, as it was with St. Peter, keep your eyes on Christ and don’t look away. Hold onto him for dear life. And read Cardinal Sarah’s new book, and anything you can find by Ratzinger/Benedict and St. John Paul II. Even if it is hard to love Francis, pray and sacrifice things for him and your love will grow.
Thank you for this. I will try to get a copy of the book and find time to read more. It’s hard finding time to read having kids.
 
Once again : the reason people are discouraged is because the Pope
didn’t speak out against abortion to Congress,
even though it is a “grave sin” according to the catechism of the Church
and is very much on the table in the Senate and House at this time.

Global warming and capital punishment are not of the same gravity as abortion.
The Church approves of capital punishment in certain circumstances.
Now that the Holy Father has called for the death penalty to be abolished, is there any way CCC 2267 can be changed to remove that clause where it says cases when the death penalty is necessary are very rare and instead just have it say it should be abolished?
 
That is the past…a past that has seen almost all peoples migrate, conquer, be conquered, enslave, and be enslaved…I’m not talking about them…I’m talking about us…at least those of us who can understand that all societies evolve…who live here and now, and don’t want to lose our nations, our heritage, and our future because somebody else, for whatever reason they can rationalize, believes they have the right to take it away from us…as payback.

Those of you who want to destroy societies because you believe you have some kind of righteous vendetta from the past…go for it. I would suggest, however, that those from south of the border go to Spain, instead of the U.S.,…and take back what the Spanish Conquistadors, accompanied by their Catholic priests, stole from them…take back all the lives lost through the Conquistadors’ conquests…the lives of slaughtered and enslaved Indians, of blacks imported from Africa to South America…make them pay…and, the American Indians can go to Spain and England, and make them pay too…and the Irish can make the English pay, and the Scots…and, the English can go to France, and pay them back for Williams the Conqueror…and the Greeks can go to Rome, the Egyptians to Greece, and pay them all back…rape, pillage, and burn, because it is righteous vengeance…and of course, we haven’t even begun to talk about the Chinese in Asia, the African tribes…the Russians and the peoples from the steppes…or about the American Indians who displaced prior peoples…

But, go ahead…burn us all with your righteous indignation…
I am 3/4 American Indian. My dad is full blooded, my mom is half and half irish. My husband is full blooded Indian and immigrated from Mexico. We both agree with everything you wrote. That’s why we are an army family. My dad was army, just like his brothers all were too. People don’t seem to remember that the Aztecs were ripping people’s hearts out when they were conquered, and my ancestors were far from Christian too.
 
I’ve been trying really hard to like Pope Francis. I really am trying. I want to like him. I was so happy when he was elected. I was so happy to hear him speak of being a Pope for the poor. I was really hopeful that he was going to be good not only for the Church but for the world at large. There have been many little things throughout his time as pope that have bothered me. These things have always been blamed on mistranslations, misinterpretations, misunderstandings, misquotes, misused statements taken out of context, or even the media just spinning their own agenda. I’ve tried to believe it (I actually did at first), but as time went on it got harder to accept those explanations. After hearing his speeches in Spanish–his first language–and noticing many of the same things, all this really started bothering me. I started questioning why these problems never occurred on nearly the same scale with previous popes, even with the same translation issues. Of course people said it’s because Pope Francis makes so many impromptu speeches that others didn’t, but really that is not an excuse. He obviously knows how things are construed yet he continues and even increases his speeches. So it’s bothered me and it gets harder all the time. And no one seems to feel the way I do and if you say you are struggling to understand, that you’re TRYING to love it at least like Pope Francis, people shun you. “How can you not love him? He’s the greatest thing to happen to the Catholic Church ever! Even atheists love him.” I was hopeful that seeing him in the US would help me get over these reservations, but after seeing him address congress with no mention of Jesus at all and at the same time going on and on about the environment, the death penalty, immigration, and all but ignoring abortion or gay marriage–two big issues right now–has made it even more difficult. Can anyone explain why he didn’t even mention Jesus? I guess I can accept the lip service he played to gay marriage and abortion, but what about Jesus? I’m sorry but that really disturbed me.
I know how you feel. All I can say is, as it was with St. Peter, keep your eyes on Christ and don’t look away. Hold onto him for dear life. And read Cardinal Sarah’s new book, and anything you can find by Ratzinger/Benedict and St. John Paul II. Even if it is hard to love Francis, pray and sacrifice things for him and your love will grow.
I feel exactly as you do, bitterhope. 😦
I am a cradle Catholic as well, much older than you…brought up in the Church
pre-Vatican II. None of the Popes in my lifetime have had the issues that this
current Pope does, with the continual remarks “being taken out of context”, etc.

The Pope seems to be trying to appeal to people who are outside of the Church.
Even the pro-abortionists and same sex marriage adherents like him. But how long
is that going to last when they find out that the Church is NOT ever going to
condone those things?
Meanwhile, faithful Catholics are being turned off.

Thanks for the encouraging post, Colorado. You are so right…all we can do is
to hold onto the Church itself. Popes come and go, but the Church will endure.
As St. Peter said: “Lord, to whom shall we go?”
 
That is the past…a past that has seen almost all peoples migrate, conquer, be conquered, enslave, and be enslaved…I’m not talking about them…I’m talking about us…at least those of us who can understand that all societies evolve…who live here and now, and don’t want to lose our nations, our heritage, and our future because somebody else, for whatever reason they can rationalize, believes they have the right to take it away from us…as payback.

Those of you who want to destroy societies because you believe you have some kind of righteous vendetta from the past…go for it. I would suggest, however, that those from south of the border go to Spain, instead of the U.S.,…and take back what the Spanish Conquistadors, accompanied by their Catholic priests, stole from them…take back all the lives lost through the Conquistadors’ conquests…the lives of slaughtered and enslaved Indians, of blacks imported from Africa to South America…make them pay…and, the American Indians can go to Spain and England, and make them pay too…and the Irish can make the English pay, and the Scots…and, the English can go to France, and pay them back for Williams the Conqueror…and the Greeks can go to Rome, the Egyptians to Greece, and pay them all back…rape, pillage, and burn, because it is righteous vengeance…and of course, we haven’t even begun to talk about the Chinese in Asia, the African tribes…the Russians and the peoples from the steppes…or about the American Indians who displaced prior peoples…

But, go ahead…burn us all with your righteous indignation…
I think what is necessary is to realize Pope Francis did not create this problem. He has had nothing whatever to do with creating the immigration problem in the U.S., and the U.S. government has not effectively addressed this issue for the past thirty years, while U.S. businesses were employing millions of the immigrants from Latin America. In effect, the U.S. government, through successive presidents from both parties, has effectively permitted this situation to occur. What is it Pope Francis is asking? Is it not to treat these people with dignity and respect. They are here. Pope Francis did not bring them here.
 
I think what is necessary is to realize Pope Francis did not create this problem. He has had nothing whatever to do with creating the immigration problem in the U.S., and the U.S. government has not effectively addressed this issue for the past thirty years, while U.S. businesses were employing millions of the immigrants from Latin America. In effect, the U.S. government, through successive presidents from both parties, has effectively permitted this situation to occur. What is it Pope Francis is asking? Is it not to treat these people with dignity and respect. They are here. Pope Francis did not bring them here.
It’s not just the US government and businesses. In lots of states like California, average citizens employ illegal immigrants from Mexico to do their gardening, put new roofs on their houses, and many other labor intensive jobs that they would have a hard time finding any legal resident to do for the same cheap price. Businesses probably use these people to do all sorts of back-breaking agricultural work, often in the hot sun, that no US citizen would do.
 
Now that the Holy Father has called for the death penalty to be abolished, is there any way CCC 2267 can be changed to remove that clause where it says cases when the death penalty is necessary are very rare and instead just have it say it should be abolished?
It probably should be modified. But what John Paul II actually promulgated was that while the death penalty is only rarely necessary, in advanced societies such as the U.S. it would ‘virtually never’ be justified.
 
Good grief. Relax. I have encountered these “invaders” here on my property in South Texas (once a part of Mexico) and they are people just like anyone else. They are seeking a better life, and Republican businessman in northern cities have for decades been more than happy to employee them because of their basic decency and work ethic. Why do you suppose the southern border has remained open for so long and the immigration laws not enforced? Pope Francis has caused none of this.
I think we Texans have always had a little more understanding. We have the privilege of knowing more of these “invaders” in person and that always lessens ignorance. Also, we have the rather unique position of being from the state where illegal immigrants once crossed into Mexico, along with legal immigrants. Though it started out as Spain, then Mexico, then we had the dictator, but the point is, many of the crossers like Davy Crockett swimming the Sabine instead of the Rio Grande. Then we also started by fighting and dying alongside Mexican nationals here in Texas. Heck, many Texans were legally nationalized Mexicans.
 
The priest who was narrating the Pope’s Congressional address with Raymond Arroyo on EWTN
put it very plainly:
*abortion, euthanasia, and same-sex marriage are “non- negotiable” issues
in the theology of the Catholic Church *
Non negotiable issues are to be found in the Magnificate, the Beatitudes and the Parables…
I guess the question is where do we go to find Church teaching. The Catechism for sure. The words of Jesus. I fear too much we Americans tend to drift to those blogs, sites and pundits that fit us. It is more comfortable, to be sure. But if we find that we are always having to downplay what the Holy Father, the Bishops in this country, our own priest, is saying in favor of those source we can ditto, then what does this say about our personal discipleship?

When Jesus taught, people were seldom comfortable, especially the wealthy and established. We should not expect to be comfortable. Instead of criticizing the Holy Father for what he did* not* say, why not focus on what he did say and what he is trying to teach us, each of us, individually. We should be able to do that without leaving behind the obvious areas of sin we all know.
 
I am 3/4 American Indian. My dad is full blooded, my mom is half and half irish. My husband is full blooded Indian and immigrated from Mexico. We both agree with everything you wrote. That’s why we are an army family. My dad was army, just like his brothers all were too. People don’t seem to remember that the Aztecs were ripping people’s hearts out when they were conquered, and my ancestors were far from Christian too.
Thank you…when everyone tells you you’re crazy, sometimes you start to believe it…and thank you for having such a beautiful, generous, and giving family…God bless all of you for the sacrifices you have made, and for the service you have done for our nation. I know there are so many more like you, and wish there were even more…families like yours will be the salvation of our nation, God willing…Thank you all again…
 
Pope Francis has said for some time that the “obsession” (a word he has used) with any particular issue cannot remain the sole focus of the Church. He is attempting to reintroduce a wider spirituality, and he has made this very clear. While some might disagree, he is the pope. And it seems clear that this pastoral approach has been quite successful.
There you go again, using exclusive language (“sole focus”) to describe a position that no pro-life advocate holds.
 
This Pope is preaching to the “post-Christian era”, the Pope yes, seems to be very “Pastoral” as some others, here in fact, have said.
If the Pope is speaking to post-Christians in post-Christian language, this might explain why I have failed to understand him.
 
Why so much anger?

Why so much second guessing?

Can we not trust in the wisdom of the Holy Father?

Perhaps he felt that planting a few seeds through indirect allusion would be more productive than a full on assault.

I don’t know. I cannot imagine what it must be like to be Pope. The pressures must be immense.

Let’s just all take a deep breath, calm down and pray that God will guide the Holy Father.

And maybe let’s also admit that the best way to tackle these issues may be just a little above our pay scales.
 
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