Population Bottleneck

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edwest said:
Anyway, new findings about Neanderthals overthrows those bits about four-legged animal art.
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Do you really think so? The article gave many interesting things that Neanderthals did.

Neanderthals used tools. But so do animals. : 11 Amazing Animals That Use Tools

Neanderthals used weapons. But so do animals: 10 Weapons that Animals Use

Neanderthals bury their dead. But so do animals: 3 Animals that Have Funerals

Neanderthals took care of the elderly and the injured. But so do animals: 6 Amazing Ways Animals Show Compassion

All the evidences provided to demonstrate the “human-ness” of the Neanderthals fail because they do not exceed the abilities exhibited by many animals.
 
Except the alternate explanation fully accounts for said similarity: that just as different works by the same artist have noticeable similarities, so too do a multitude of creatures of a single Creator have similarities.

Furthermore, it is entirely necessary that the other creatures in this world have similar chemistry to us, else the food chain could not work. As we are wholly dependent on plants to supply the basic building blocks of life, namely, amino acids, carbohydrates, fats, and vitamins (or their metabolically useful precursors), it is essential that our biochemistry be compatible with the plants and algae that are, by necessity, at the bottom of the food chain.
 
Funny, the Bible doesn’t claim “Y-chromosomal Adam” to be the first man. On the contrary, the Bible claims that Y-chromosomal Adam is Noah, the patriarch of all the survivors of the bottleneck event.
 
Hope1960 said:
So were both the Neanderthals and Denisovians humans or not?
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I seriously doubt it. The evidence that I find difficult to ignore is Paleolithic stone age art, at the beginning of the Aurignacian culture. For example, look at this figurine from Austria, known as the Venus of Willendorf, dated 24,000 years ago. Image credit: File:Venus of Willendorf frontview retouched 2.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

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and, in Germany, the Lion man of Hohlenstein Stadel (38,000 years ago). Image credit: File:Lion man photo.jpg - Wikimedia Commons See below:
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These, I cannot deny, were made by humans. But these are not older than 40,000 years old.
 
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Techno2000 said:
The cactus would have to know the future and be one step ahead of the coming dry environment.And how does the cactus know the environment it going to stay dry?
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Cacti vary. Some are slightly better adapted to a slightly dryer environment while some are slightly better adapted to a slightly less dry environment. If the area is desertifying, then the better dry adapted variants will prosper and spread more widely, while the less well adapted variants will tend to die out, taking their genes with them. Looking overall at the whole population of cacti, then the genes for surviving in a dryer climate will be spreading while the genes for surviving a less dry climate will be disappearing. Hence the overall genome of the whole population is shifting towards being better adapted to surviving in dryer conditions.

That is how natural selection works. No foresight is needed, just some initial variation in the DNA of the population. Variation together with selection pressure will result in changes to the overall population genome.

You really should have known that by now. It is very basic Evolution 101.

rossum
 
www.livescience.com

Neanderthals Weren't Humans' Only Mating Partners. Meet the Denisovans.

The mysterious extinct human lineage known as the Denisovans may have interbred with modern humans in at least two separate waves, a new study finds.
www.livescience.com www.livescience.com

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)30175-2
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Summary​

Anatomically modern humans interbred with Neanderthals and with a related archaic population known as Denisovans. Genomes of several Neanderthals and one Denisovan have been sequenced, and these reference genomes have been used to detect introgressed genetic material in present-day human genomes. Segments of introgression also can be detected without use of reference genomes, and doing so can be advantageous for finding introgressed segments that are less closely related to the sequenced archaic genomes. We apply a new reference-free method for detecting archaic introgression to 5,639 whole-genome sequences from Eurasia and Oceania. We find Denisovan ancestry in populations from East and South Asia and Papuans. Denisovan ancestry comprises two components with differing similarity to the sequenced Altai Denisovan individual. This indicates that at least two distinct instances of Denisovan admixture into modern humans occurred, involving Denisovan populations that had different levels of relatedness to the sequenced Altai Denisovan.
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rossum said:
Cacti vary. Some are slightly better adapted to a slightly dryer environment while some are slightly better adapted to a slightly less dry environment. If the area is desertifying, then the better dry adapted variants will prosper and spread more widely, while the less well adapted variants will tend to die out, taking their genes with them. Looking overall at the whole population of cacti, then the genes for surviving in a dryer climate will be spreading while the genes for surviving a less dry climate will be disappearing. Hence the overall genome of the whole population is shifting towards being better adapted to surviving in dryer conditions.
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Ok,now explain how the reverse would work , if the desert climate was to become wetter and colder ?
rossum said:
You really should have known that by now. It is very basic Evolution 101.
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That’s an overly simplified explanation, the entire ecosystem would be affected by the drought, not just the cati . Evolution would need the perfect random mutations to occur for all the male and female organisms that also live with the cati.
 
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Techno2000 said:
Ok,now explain how the reverse would work , if the desert climate was to become wetter and colder ?
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Then the drier adapted cacti would decline, along with those alleles while the less dry adapted variants would increase and spread through the population. Was that really so hard to work out for yourself?
That’s an overly simplified explanation, the entire ecosystem would be affected by the drought, not just the cacti .
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And every species in that ecosystem would have variants, some better adapted to dry and some better adapted to less dry.
Evolution would need the perfect random mutations to occur for all the male and female organisms that also live with the cacti.
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Not “perfect”, merely “better than average” is enough for a mutation to be beneficial. Your understanding of sexual reproduction is faulty here. Traits can be inherited from either parent, so only one parent needs to have the better variant for half the offspring to inherit it. That half will do better than their siblings without the beneficial variant.

rossum
 
rossum said:
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Techno2000:
Ok,now explain how the reverse would work , if the desert climate was to become wetter and colder ?
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Then the drier adapted cacti would decline, along with those alleles while the less dry adapted variants would increase and spread through the population. Was that really so hard to work out for yourself?
That’s an overly simplified explanation, the entire ecosystem would be affected by the drought, not just the cacti .
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And every species in that ecosystem would have variants, some better adapted to dry and some better adapted to less dry.
Evolution would need the perfect random mutations to occur for all the male and female organisms that also live with the cacti.
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Not “perfect”, merely “better than average” is enough for a mutation to be beneficial. Your understanding of sexual reproduction is faulty here. Traits can be inherited from either parent, so only one parent needs to have the better variant for half the offspring to inherit it. That half will do better than their siblings without the beneficial variant.

rossum
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None… of what you said, works in real life, if the desert became cold and wet, the whole ecosystem would die… end of story.
 
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Perhaps we should think as the Denisovans, Neandertals and other groups as different tribes.
 
Techno2000 said:
None… of what you said, works in real life, if the desert became cold and wet, the whole ecosystem would die… end of story.
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How quickly did it become cold and wet. Overnight, then you are right. Slowly over tens of thousands of years then you are wrong.

rossum
 
buffalo said:
Perhaps we should think as the Denisovans, Neandertals and other groups as different tribes.
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No they were not. I don’t have the results for Denisovans, but the results for Neanderthals show that they were genetically different from modern humans. See here.

rossum
 
rossum said:
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buffalo:
Perhaps we should think as the Denisovans, Neandertals and other groups as different tribes.
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No they were not. I don’t have the results for Denisovans, but the results for Neanderthals show that they were genetically different from modern humans. See here.

rossum
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You should get patient poster of the year. You are a role model.
 
That’s nonsense and highly biased. Name one other alleged ‘non-human’ that real humans had offspring with.
 
rossum said:
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Techno2000:
None… of what you said, works in real life, if the desert became cold and wet, the whole ecosystem would die… end of story.
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How quickly did it become cold and wet. Overnight, then you are right. Slowly over tens of thousands of years then you are wrong.

rossum
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Only organisms now that actually live in a cold and wet environment could survive.Cacti and desert animals won’t evolve to acquire this ability tens of thousands of years from now.
 
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