Portland protesters topple Lincoln, Roosevelt statues during ‘Day of Rage’

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Lincoln declared the whites as the supreme race and said that whites and blacks . . . were not . .
equal. . . . As far as toppling statues, I’m opposed to that kind of violence. I just don’t understand the Lincoln worship and I never have. He could have ended slavery through compensated emancipation but chose a violent path instead that cost a bundle more and resulted in over 600,000 deaths. Quite evil in my opinion. Nothing heroic about it.
 
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Formon said:
Lincoln declared the whites as the supreme race and said that whites and blacks would never be equal. No doubt that he was a white supremacist.
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Let me restate. Lincoln was a hero, yes, a hero, for ending slavery in the United States. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t a flawed human being. He was. Like me. Like you.
Formon said:
As far as toppling statues, I’m opposed to that kind of violence.
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It didn’t sound that way in your last post.
Formon said:
I just don’t understand the Lincoln worship and I never have.
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Straw man. No one is worshiping Lincoln. Most here worship the Son of the Living God.
You can’t understand what doesn’t exist.
Formon said:
He could have ended slavery through compensated emancipation but chose a violent path instead that cost a bundle more and resulted in over 600,000 deaths.
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Oh, so now you’re second guessing with 20/20 hindsight. Maybe you needed to be there.
Formon said:
Quite evil in my opinion. Nothing heroic about it.
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Defeating slavery was not evil. It was heroic.
 
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I think you understand that the term Lincoln worship is not literal. You’re smarter than that. He’s a hero to many people, which thing i totally don’t get. Compensated emancipation nor other peaceful means of emancipation were nothing unusual in those days. What other Western countries ended slavery so violently?

Hero is an opinion, and you’re certainly entitled to it. I regard his actions as purely evil.
 
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Formon said:
I think you understand that the term Lincoln worship is not literal. You’re smarter than that.
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Perhaps you need to be more clear.
Formon said:
He’s a hero to many people, which thing i totally don’t get.
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You don’t get that his actions freed slaves.
Formon said:
Compensated emancipation nor other peaceful means of emancipation were nothing unusual in those days. What other Western countries ended slavery so violently?
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You will have to bring that up with the leaders of the Confederacy. If I recall my history, Fort Sumter is where the confederates fired first on the federal troops stationed there.
Formon said:
Hero is an opinion, and you’re certainly entitled to it. I regard his actions as purely evil.
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This is the second time you’ve said this. Again, freeing slaves was not evil.
 
The manner in which he freed the slaves was evil. In my opinion it outweighed the end result. And the slaves were just pawns anyway. He made it clear that it was about preserving the union and if that meant not freeing any of the slaves, so be it.

But that sort of got off track anyway. My point was that he was a white supremacist and I get why they would want to tear down his statue. I don’t condone it but I get it.
 
Could be a wee bit difficult until we get some advances regarding practical usage of time travel or a reliable means of communicating with the dead and the latter may be problematic for Christians.
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There are two choices that come to mind.
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Formon said:
The manner in which he freed the slaves was evil. In my opinion it outweighed the end result.
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So, no fault due the confederacy.
Formon said:
And the slaves were just pawns anyway. He made it clear that it was about preserving the union and if that meant not freeing any of the slaves, so be it.
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So, he freed the pawns.
He signed the Emancipation Proclamation. He didn’t have to.
Formon said:
My point was that he was a white supremacist and I get why they would want to tear down his statue. I don’t condone it but I get it.
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My point is he freed the slaves. So, I don’t get it. One is either ignorant of history, or an anti-American using blackshirt style violence.
 
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The Emancipation proclamation didn’t free any slaves and it only attempted to apply to some of them.
 
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Track them down. Give them a perp walk. Fine them $250,000. Throw them in jail for ten years. Next time it happens do the same thing. Keep on doing it until it stops.
 
shedding a tear for the statue of Abraham “there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race” Lincoln
 
If you are going to justify tearing down statues by finding quotes you don’t like then we might as well tear down every statue in the country regardless of race or ethnicity. There is not a public figure in history who hasn’t said things that someone doesn’t like. Leave them all alone or tear every one of them down. Nobody is so enlightened to pick or choose which statues are to be torn down and which are to be left alone. Certainly not a bunch of wannabe anarchist ignoramuses.
 
Yep, cherry picked from a speech in 1858.

I sure hope that you’d be as comfortable with your positions on some now ‘vitally important issue’ if somebody brought them up years later, after you had in fact become more educated about the issue and indeed changed your mind, in having people tell you that as far as they were concerned, only the words you wrote ‘back then’ mattered and reflected your true and final position.
 
Zach said:
Nobody is so enlightened to pick or choose which statues are to be torn down and which are to be left alone.
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I think indigenous people are certainly enlightened enough to tear down statues of white supremacists.
stpurl said:
I sure hope that you’d be as comfortable with your positions on some now ‘vitally important issue’ if somebody brought them up years later, after you had in fact become more educated about the issue and indeed changed your mind, in having people tell you that as far as they were concerned, only the words you wrote ‘back then’ mattered and reflected your true and final position.
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If I’ve ever said anything or held a position that rises to the level of “white people should be superior to black people” then I pray any statues of me get torn down with extreme prejudice.
 
Courtney Love did more for music than anyone besides Mark David Chapman.
 
No they aren’t. They are no more enlightened than anybody else. To say so is patronizing. If I tear down a statue I don’t like I’d expect to face severe penalty. Nobody is special. Whoever tears down any statue should face the same penalty. Can you get any more PC, indigenous people? White supremacists? The same old tired cliches.
 
It’s almost like he held the common beliefs that the majority of people had at his time.
 
It made no sense. It was a useless document. Whether I agree with it or oppose it is pointless.
 
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