Posing nude for a professional photographer

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This “I have a degree in [insert subject].” I do too, and I have met many a philosophy majors that I was not impressed with.

Anyways, it depends on what branches you studied, and what the professor taught in the given course during that time of completing your philosophy degree and what your interests were.
Absolutely. I was simply pointing out to the poster who made a rude remark suggesting that I had no background in philosophy that I have taken enough courses to have a major in philosophy, and it is safe to infer that I would have a basic understanding of introductory concepts in ethics. Basically it was trying to say that you shouldn’t jump to assumptions about people’s backgrounds simply because they take a different philosophical approach than you.
 
The following is relevant to this discussion:

On Looking at Girls
By Jimmy Akin
jimmyakin.org/2009/01/appreciating-beauty-vs-concupiscence.html

A reader writes:

This is regarding “looking at girls”.

I am very clear that obviously pornography is a grave matter. I also am clear that deliberately engaging in lustful thoughts, lustful desires, or trying to arouse yourself (outside marriage) with full knowledge and full consent is also mortal sin. Of course thoughts without these aspects are either venial or not a sin.

What I still struggle with is the question of “deliberately looking at an attractive or shapely girl”. And liking to do so.

I had understood that one could deliberately look at an attractive girl and admire her beauty -even the beauty of her form- and that the pleasure one finds in seeing her beauty and shape was not sinful to consent to and one could just ignore any “reactions of concupiscence” that happen.

Of course one must take care …and know yourself …as well as at times use custody of the eyes --particularly if she is very immodestly dressed.

Also that one could even look at a work of art that is nude etc (that is not lustfully done --that shows the dignity of the person) and admire the form and beauty and ignore any “reactions of concupiscence”.

Is this treating a girl as an object? Am I wrong in doing this? Is it sinful?

In this context, treating someone “as an object” mean improperly treating a person as an instrument of sexual gratification and thus not properly recognizing the dignity of the person. There are also other ways one can (non-sexually) “object”-ify a person, e.g., treating a spouse as merely a means of getting certain tasks done (breadwinning, household management, whatever). In general, treating someone merely as a means to an end and not respecting the fundamental dignity of the person results in the objectification of that person. Sexual objectification is just one species in a larger genus.

But you know what doesn’t belong to this genus? Recognizing a person’s good points.

If someone is beautiful or handsome or smart or prudent or a good breadwinner or a good household manager or a good square dance caller or has any other good points, it’s fine to recognize and appreciate those facts. If they are manifest, it would even be contrary to reason not to do so. So recognizing and appreciating the beauty of the human form–in general or in a specific case–is not a sin.

At least you couldn’t guess it from the statues and paintings that the folks at the Vatican have all over the place. They sure seem to be on board with this idea. I mean, just look at the Sistine Chapel! Just look at the Last Judgment! And this is where they elect popes!

So it seems to me that one is on pretty safe ground saying that it’s okay and not-automatically-objectifying if you recognize and appreciate physical beauty or any other good attribute that a person has.

It becomes objectifying if you reduce the person’s worth to just their good or useful qualities. Of course, in the area of appreciating physical beauty–especially of the opposite sex–we have to be careful.

It’s one thing to be looking at a marble statue of a nude woman.

It’s another to be looking at a color photograph of a nude woman.

It’s another yet to be looking at a real live nude woman.

These represent different levels of moral risk, and the greater the peril, the more stringent efforts must be taken to avoid it or escape from it. Because people are different and subject to different levels of temptation, they will have to determine based on their own self-knowledge and personal history what situations are too dangerous for them to allow themselves to be in.

For some–particularly males at a particular stage of life–even looking at artistic representations of nudes may be too much. As normal in risk management–which is what avoiding temptation is, since it’s not possible to completely eliminate the risk of temptation (given the mind’s ability to produce temptation on its own)–one must avoid two extremes: under-estimating the risk that a situation poses and over-estimating it.

For most people the laxist approach is the greater danger, which is why Jesus told us to seek the narrow path. For other people, particularly those subject to scrupulous tendencies, the rigorist approach is a danger. Neither approach is what we are called to.

What one must do is evaluate the risk a particular course of action poses for one and act accordingly. In some cases temptation will arise despite one’s efforts. That’s the nature of risk. As long as the risk isn’t zero–and it never is in this life–sometimes temptation will arise.

The thing to do when that happens is relax, ignore the temptation, and move on to something else. The “relax” part is important, because if one allows oneself to become anxious about temptation then it only reinforces the temptation. Temptation is deprived of its power if you refuse to get anxious about it and simply move on.

Because I’m not the reader, I can’t say precisely what courses of action are too risky in his case, but I can say that it’s not sinful to simply recognize and appreciate beauty. (As opposed to dwelling on or studiously contemplating the details of a particular person’s physical form, which is going to increase risk.) I can say that it is not sinful to be exposed to any and all levels of non-zero risk. (Zero risk of temptation is impossible in this life.)

And I can say that if he tries to instantly avert his eyes from every single pretty girl he sees then he will foster an anxiety about temptation that will actually feed the temptation he is seeking to minimize. The better thing to do is avoid situations that are known to be dangerous (i.e., that pose a significant risk of significant temptation) and to otherwise relax and move on when temptation does appear.
 
The following is relevant to this discussion:

On Looking at Girls
By Jimmy Akin
jimmyakin.org/2009/01/appreciating-beauty-vs-concupiscence.html

It’s one thing to be looking at a marble statue of a nude woman.

It’s another to be looking at a color photograph of a nude woman.

It’s another yet to be looking at a real live nude woman.
:doh2:How does he think that statue is created? From imagination? Anyone with an art background knows it comes from doing study after study of live models. Live nude models. And yes, maybe photographic reference as well. That he fails to make that connection amazes me…
 
:How does he think that statue is created? From imagination? Anyone with an art background knows it comes from doing study after study of live models. Live nude models. And yes, maybe photographic reference as well. That he fails to make that connection amazes me…
But for the professional artist or photographer, the woman may not really an object of sexual desire, but an object to be photographed or sculpted. She might be, of course.

So, while I agree that he (or she) might be tempted into sexual sin by looking at the nude model, that is probably less of a challenge for the one primarily interested in the creation of the art than it is for the rest of us who are more passively enjoy…er…appreciating the art.
 
Photos of nude models aren’t necessary. I, and other artists I know, had to learn how to draw figures from imagination and the help of anatomy books that did not include photos of actual models.

Peace,
Ed
 
Photos of nude models aren’t necessary. I, and other artists I know, had to learn how to draw figures from imagination and the help of anatomy books that did not include photos of actual models.
Well, as someone who had what I guess you would term a more “traditional” art curricilum, I can tell you that the norm involves live models, not medical texts. 🤷

And I’ll tell ya, seeing nude models did me far less spiritual harm than the cold, prideful arrogance that grew out of more acceptable, so-called “spiritual disciplines” that took over my life later. But that’s only my experience. I don’t claim it’s everyone’s.
 
Spiritual discipline is lacking in this pornified culture. I’m sure this topic will be brought up again and again and…

Peace,
Ed
 
How sad for them. I hope they included that in their confession before they died.
The statue David would still be magnificent with the private parts covered.
I entirely disagree.

Adam and Eve were naked in the Garden. The human body is good because it was created by God. It’s our look that is impure. A young child may run around naked because his heart is pure. He feels no shame because he isn’t tainted by the world. When I look at an artist like Bouguereau, his paintings depict a pure look at the human body… the look we should have. His paintings reveal to us a look at the human body that is pure and good and beautiful. It helps us to realize our own beauty and purity…

The human body is beautiful and art helps us realize this. We should be ashamed to look at pornographic art, but REAL art of the naked human is not pornographic. If we are looking at it with shame, then it is our look that is tainted, not the art itself.
 
Photos of nude models aren’t necessary. I, and other artists I know, had to learn how to draw figures from imagination and the help of anatomy books that did not include photos of actual models.

Peace,
Ed
Are you suggesting that the Old Masters painted their paintings from imagination and didn’t paint from live models?

The Old Masters studied live nude models while drawing, painting, and sculpting. In fact, Renaissance artists like Michelangelo even dissected cadavers to study anatomy.
 
I entirely disagree.

Adam and Eve were naked in the Garden. The human body is good because it was created by God. It’s our look that is impure. A young child may run around naked because his heart is pure. He feels no shame because he isn’t tainted by the world. When I look at an artist like Bouguereau, his paintings depict a pure look at the human body… the look we should have. His paintings reveal to us a look at the human body that is pure and good and beautiful. It helps us to realize our own beauty and purity…

The human body is beautiful and art helps us realize this. We should be ashamed to look at pornographic art, but REAL art of the naked human is not pornographic. If we are looking at it with shame, then it is our look that is tainted, not the art itself.
I follow modern art today. It is a cult with its own priests and places of worship. It has no standards except for the following: the incomprehensible, the offensive and the degrading.

There is no reason to believe that posing nude for a photographer has any purpose in our pornified culture. None.
  1. A pile of trash.
  2. A pile of trash called “art” by a priest of the modern art cult, an art critic, and you read:
“From the deepest depths of human experience, we tend to not see things as we should. Renaldo has given us a new vision, a modern vision that engages blah blah, blah.”

Unititled # 42 by Renaldo sells at The Pretentious Gallery for $100,000.00, causing him to be named “a rising star in the art world.”

Answer to mystery? It’s just a pile of trash, not some cult object blessed by a shaman.

A photo of a nude woman is a nude woman. It’s not art by proxy or by shamanism.

Wake up people!

Peace,
Ed
 
One may also note the comments of Pope John Paul II in this matter:"The
human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splen-
dour and its beauty…Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physic-
al shamelessness … Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a
negative role with regard to the value of the person…The human body is not
in itself shameful…Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a fun-
ction of the interior of a person."Karol Cardinal Woytyla (John Paul II), Love and Responsibility, translation by H. T. Willetts, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, New York: 1981.

[PDF] **Pope John Paul II - Theology of the Body**Just as long as it isn’t “dirty”, no prob.
 
This is just a repackaging of what was called “glamor photography” in the 1950s. There were props and detailed instructions about lenses and f-stops, and exotic locations and some “clothing” or some draping. All of it was made to sound very artistic. It turned out that was a lie. Those books about glamor photography are sitting next to stacks of porn in bigger used bookstores because regardless of the claimed intent of the creators, it ended up as masturbation fodder, and rarely served as “art instruction” as claimed on some titles. Or as art. It was Playboy relabeled.

Peace,
Ed
 
I follow modern art today. It is a cult with its own priests and places of worship. It has no standards except for the following: the incomprehensible, the offensive and the degrading.

There is no reason to believe that posing nude for a photographer has any purpose in our pornified culture. None.
  1. A pile of trash.
  2. A pile of trash called “art” by a priest of the modern art cult, an art critic, and you read:
“From the deepest depths of human experience, we tend to not see things as we should. Renaldo has given us a new vision, a modern vision that engages blah blah, blah.”

Unititled # 42 by Renaldo sells at The Pretentious Gallery for $100,000.00, causing him to be named “a rising star in the art world.”

Answer to mystery? It’s just a pile of trash, not some cult object blessed by a shaman.

A photo of a nude woman is a nude woman. It’s not art by proxy or by shamanism.

Wake up people!

Peace,
Ed
I’m not talking about modern art, or pornographic art where people hide porn under the guise of art. I’m talking about real art and real artists, whose look at the human body is pure. What’s sad is that we are having this discussion because people can’t tell the difference.

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If you are looking at their naked bodies as porn, then there is something seriously wrong with your look.
 
I’m not talking about modern art, or pornographic art where people hide porn under the guise of art. I’m talking about real art and real artists, whose look at the human body is pure. What’s sad is that we are having this discussion because people can’t tell the difference.

View attachment 18137

View attachment 18138

View attachment 18139

If you are looking at their naked bodies as porn, then there is something seriously wrong with your look.
That is so funny. Have you taken any art classes? From my Basic Drawing Class to Art Indoctrination (falsely labeled Art Appreciation) to my Advanced Painting Class, I was surrounded by the self-deluded and Communist reeducators. There is something seriously wrong with them.

When I was going to one college and my friend to another, we both quit for the same reason; the art cultist tribe rejected our work because it did not fit their tribal distortions of reality. NO ONE can tell the difference. No, normal, same person can call any modern art produced since the 1950s art in any way, shape or form. With the rise of the Art Cult and the priesthood of the Art Critic, the door was closed to those who would dared to paint or photograph anything realistic unless it was deformed or grossly distorted or grossly offensive, or arousing.

The ever devolving art school environment has not changed from the rigid dictatorship me and my friend experienced. An artist friend of mine called me a few months ago. He said his daughter was quitting a prestigious (whatever that means) art college. “Dad. They don’t want to teach me what I want to know.” Nothing’s changed in decades.

Do you know why his daughter quit? In her Fibers and Clothing class, her instructor told her she was doing it wrong. What was doing it right? Her instructor showed her a life-size nude outline of a pregnant woman made out of barbed wire with a nude plastic doll visible in the womb.

So, again, no sane person knows what art is unless you go through the abnormal psychological brainwashing process of the Art Cult. Don’t agree? You are shunned as not worthy.

Nudity in photography has no reason to exist except for professional medical use.

Peace,
Ed
 
That is so funny. Have you taken any art classes? From my Basic Drawing Class to Art Indoctrination (falsely labeled Art Appreciation) to my Advanced Painting Class, I was surrounded by the self-deluded and Communist reeducators. There is something seriously wrong with them.

When I was going to one college and my friend to another, we both quit for the same reason; the art cultist tribe rejected our work because it did not fit their tribal distortions of reality. NO ONE can tell the difference. No, normal, same person can call any modern art produced since the 1950s art in any way, shape or form. With the rise of the Art Cult and the priesthood of the Art Critic, the door was closed to those who would dared to paint or photograph anything realistic unless it was deformed or grossly distorted or grossly offensive, or arousing.

The ever devolving art school environment has not changed from the rigid dictatorship me and my friend experienced. An artist friend of mine called me a few months ago. He said his daughter was quitting a prestigious (whatever that means) art college. “Dad. They don’t want to teach me what I want to know.” Nothing’s changed in decades.

Do you know why his daughter quit? In her Fibers and Clothing class, her instructor told her she was doing it wrong. What was doing it right? Her instructor showed her a life-size nude outline of a pregnant woman made out of barbed wire with a nude plastic doll visible in the womb.

So, again, no sane person knows what art is unless you go through the abnormal psychological brainwashing process of the Art Cult. Don’t agree? You are shunned as not worthy.

Nudity in photography has no reason to exist except for professional medical use.

Peace,
Ed
Do you think the above pictures are pornographic? or true art? If you do not think they are pornographic then I do not at all understand your response. The above poster explained to you that it is things such as the above pictures that he is thinking of when he speaks of nudity as a form of art. If you agree with him that the above pictures are fine then why in the world are you going on as if he said something you disagree with? If, on the other hand, you believe the above pictures to be pornographic… well, then, there is far more of a difference here than I previously thought. I thought you agreed that the paintings in the Sistine chapel were art, not porn. But I fail to see why these picture would be any more pornographic than those int he Sistine Chapel.

As for the claim that nudity has no place in photography except in medical textbooks, why is it ok to deny women a legitimate source of healing by claiming the photographs necessary for such healing are immoral? I can understand that you don’t realize how serious of an issue this is for many women, as I assume you have never experienced this particular issue, but I assure you this is not some insignificant or frivolous claim to a problem. This is something that severely negatively impacts many women’s lives on a daily basis. Yes, knowing the way the world is it is in fact likely that some guy somewhere will find his way onto that site and ignore its real purpose and use the pics for his own pleasure, but, as I’ve said, that is also true of pics in medical books and the paintings in the Sistine Chapel. Just because some few will abuse something does not make it immoral. It is clear that nude photographs are not intrinsically wrong. The question is whether they have a legitimate purpose or not. Healing women of very real psychological scars is a very legitimate purpose. Please do not dismiss the reality or severity of these scars just because it is not a problem you have ever had to deal with. Even if you remain sceptical that this really is as serious a problem with the necessity for such a project for women’s healing at least admit the possibility. Just because you have not personally suffered from this does not mean it does not exist.
 
I am not opposed to healing. Let me be very clear on that. The Sistine chapel and paintings are not photographs. I don’t know if you understand that.

I am talking about the average professional photographer who has decided to do nude photography of women as a side business or all of his business. Again, I am not talking about a special example like the one you mention. He takes these photos and what? gives them away? or uses them to make money? and who is the end buyer?

The average professional photographer, like the one I know, shoots for money. End of story.

Peace,
Ed
 
I am not opposed to healing. Let me be very clear on that. The Sistine chapel and paintings are not photographs. I don’t know if you understand that.

I am talking about the average professional photographer who has decided to do nude photography of women as a side business or all of his business. Again, I am not talking about a special example like the one you mention. He takes these photos and what? gives them away? or uses them to make money? and who is the end buyer?

The average professional photographer, like the one I know, shoots for money. End of story.

Peace,
Ed
And thats fine. If you are only talking about the average photographer then I don’t think you will find anybody disagreeing with you here on this thread. But you keep commenting as though you disagree with people all the while making absolute universal statements as opposed to statements about the average professional photographer which make it sound as though your position is much more extreme than it is.
 
Do you think the above pictures are pornographic? or true art? If you do not think they are pornographic then I do not at all understand your response. The above poster explained to you that it is things such as the above pictures that he is thinking of when he speaks of nudity as a form of art. If you agree with him that the above pictures are fine then why in the world are you going on as if he said something you disagree with? If, on the other hand, you believe the above pictures to be pornographic… well, then, there is far more of a difference here than I previously thought. I thought you agreed that the paintings in the Sistine chapel were art, not porn. But I fail to see why these picture would be any more pornographic than those int he Sistine Chapel.

As for the claim that nudity has no place in photography except in medical textbooks, why is it ok to deny women a legitimate source of healing by claiming the photographs necessary for such healing are immoral? I can understand that you don’t realize how serious of an issue this is for many women, as I assume you have never experienced this particular issue, but I assure you this is not some insignificant or frivolous claim to a problem. This is something that severely negatively impacts many women’s lives on a daily basis. Yes, knowing the way the world is it is in fact likely that some guy somewhere will find his way onto that site and ignore its real purpose and use the pics for his own pleasure, but, as I’ve said, that is also true of pics in medical books and the paintings in the Sistine Chapel. Just because some few will abuse something does not make it immoral. It is clear that nude photographs are not intrinsically wrong. The question is whether they have a legitimate purpose or not. Healing women of very real psychological scars is a very legitimate purpose. Please do not dismiss the reality or severity of these scars just because it is not a problem you have ever had to deal with. Even if you remain sceptical that this really is as serious a problem with the necessity for such a project for women’s healing at least admit the possibility. Just because you have not personally suffered from this does not mean it does not exist.
Good point with the reference to healing photographs. 👍

This is for edwest2 as well.

I recently saw some photos of a woman who had breast cancer and had both breasts removed. She tattooed her chest and posed nude (topless). There are also other pictures of topless women with one remaining, or partially remaining, breast(s). These are not pornographic by any means. The photographs show their suffering, battle, and strength.

Now all that said, of course we have to take into consideration that we are living in a sex-driven culture where a pure look at a naked body is hard to come by. But, the beauty of true art is that it reveals (or can reveal) the true beauty and sacredness of the human body.
For example, when I look at Bougereaux’s paintings, it reveals something about my own humanity and beauty. In fact, it helps me become less shameful of my own body (something that society has greatly imposed on us all) It makes me realize by own beauty and worth… and that the human body is good, holy, and sacred.

When I look at the pictures of breast cancer survivors, again, it reveals a strength and their beauty. It reveals many other things too… such as loneliness, suffering, loss…

I’m sorry you have had such a bad experience in your classes, but it is not like that everywhere. I’ve been to museums with religious sisters and it’s interesting to see their perspective on nude art… and it’s way more profound than anything I could have seen or discovered on my own.

I think we need more artists painting pictures or photographing the body as it should be to counter all the evil porn that’s out there.

All that said, if someone is struggling in this area, then they should stay away from nude art if it is a near occasion of sin for them.
 
Please look at the title of this thread and please do not refer to paintings because a painting can never do what a photograph can.

Again, the common, everyday professional photographer shoots photos to pay the bills and challenges himself, as an artist, to bring out those qualities in his subject that makes it rise above what can be done by anyone who can pick up a camera. Again, my simple question is: what do most photographers who do nude photo shoots do it for? What is the answer?

I’m currently doing product shoots with a $700.00 camera. It could be viewed as art but it’s designed to bring out the qualities of the object. I understand color theory, composition, lighting, etc. I must have taken thousands of shots, but it’s just part of my job.

Peace,
Ed
 
Please look at the title of this thread and please do not refer to paintings because a painting can never do what a photograph can.

Again, the common, everyday professional photographer shoots photos to pay the bills and challenges himself, as an artist, to bring out those qualities in his subject that makes it rise above what can be done by anyone who can pick up a camera. Again, my simple question is: what do most photographers who do nude photo shoots do it for? What is the answer?

I’m currently doing product shoots with a $700.00 camera. It could be viewed as art but it’s designed to bring out the qualities of the object. I understand color theory, composition, lighting, etc. I must have taken thousands of shots, but it’s just part of my job.

Peace,
Ed
posing nude for a photographer and is it ever appropriate.

This question isn’t just privy to photography as it is about posing nude. Painters and sculptors, too, need someone to model nude. That said, Photography is also an art form. And if you read my last post, I referenced several cases of nude photography that I thought was appropriate.

What I think the point is you are trying to make is what you said about the “everyday professional photographer…” Are the photographers who shoot for your typical magazines doing nude photography with a pure look? Probably not. Are there some that do? Yes.
As someone jokingly referenced at the beginning of this thread, nude photography is okay for an infant wearing fuzzy angel wings. We don’t look at their naked bodies with lust, and the artistic photography of an infant helps us see humanity in a different light.

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There are pictures with naked mom’s and dad’s holding their infants. Again, this is a pure look. How is a pure look at an adult so different? I think art - photography, paintings, and sculptures, when done with a pure look can help us regain our pure look. We see through their eyes and perhaps it helps us regain the purity we have lost.

If the photographer’s intentions are pure, and there is a good reason they are doing this type of photography, then I see nothing wrong with it.

That said, I would be weary of most circumstances where someone was required to pose nude for the very reason that we are living in a very impure society. But that’s not to say that it’s not possible or that it doesn’t occur in our culture where nude photography is done with a pure intention and the art shows us the human body in a different light… because it does happen.
Again, the question was "Are there any circumstances where posing nude for a professional photographer is morally acceptable? " The one’s I have listed are ones that I think are permissible.
 
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