Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

[Shai22]

To Joshua

I am sorry, but this is a gross misunderstanding of the Catholic definition of sainthood, the meaning of Canonization, and the process by which a person is officially canonized a saint by the Catholic Church.

There is no scriptural support, supporting the tradition of beatifying anyone to sainthood. It’s a tradition, not a Command nor Law.

I also wanted to respond to your comment that there was no Church in the O.T. That is also simply not true, and both the New Testament Scriptures and the rich and well documented history of Judaism give witness to that fact.

The Prophets in the OT set up an Altar to praise GOD, anywhere, until the tent of the LORD’S presence was created. Even at then, the general population was not allowed to enter, it was only the Aaronite Priests, who gave offerings. Even when the Temple was built by Solomon, the general population was not allowed to go in. They brought their offerings to the Priests and the Priests offered them on their behalf. You are correct in that both the OT and the NT are rich in teachings. The NT repeats the same teachings as in the OT, showing truth to Matthew 5:17.

The church is in the heart, which is in harmony with Jeremiah 31:33, 1 Corinthians 11:25 2 Corinthians 3:3 not a structural building.

 

[Shike]

To Joshua

I am sorry, but this is a gross misunderstanding of the Catholic definition of sainthood, the meaning of Canonization, and the process by which a person is officially canonized a saint by the Catholic Church.

There is no scriptural support, supporting the tradition of beatifying anyone to sainthood. It’s a tradition, not a Command nor Law.

I also wanted to respond to your comment that there was no Church in the O.T. That is also simply not true, and both the New Testament Scriptures and the rich and well documented history of Judaism give witness to that fact.

The Prophets in the OT set up an Altar to praise GOD, anywhere, until the tent of the LORD’S presence was created. Even at then, the general population was not allowed to enter, it was only the Aaronite Priests, who gave offerings. Even when the Temple was built by Solomon, the general population was not allowed to go in. They brought their offerings to the Priests and the Priests offered them on their behalf. You are correct in that both the OT and the NT are rich in teachings. The NT repeats the same teachings as in the OT, showing truth to Matthew 5:17.

The church is in the heart, which is in harmony with Jeremiah 31:33, 1 Corinthians 11:25 2 Corinthians 3:3 not a structural building.

I’ll ignore the comment about my ego problems, as it is evident that everyone has such problems to some extent; and I do become passionate about the Truth, which can be misinterpreted or perhaps also fall into egoism. But don’t mistake arguing on a forum to mere egotism; different logical arguments are how these discussions work… the cleverness or lack of is not an indicator of someone’s ego (negative sense).

That being said. I don’t know how on earth you can justify believing in the Bible and not believing in Christ as God. If you don’t accept that, then the view of the Bible becomes inconsistant. Inconsistant is a fancy word for wrong. God gave us an intellect that should be used… it is one of the ways to help protect us from following Christian cults (in the negative sense).

I am assuming you don’t believe in Jesus as God, because you don’t think enough of me to be open and state so (you said you have free will). But if this is the case, there is no good reason for you believing in the Bible, even the Old Testament apart from a historical aspect with some books.

GOD gave us “free will” Michael, You have the right to have the kind of relationship you choose to have with GOD as you wish, as well as I have the same right. I choose to walk close to HIM, and you choose to walk from a distance.

I’m glad you know the condition of my walk with God. Really? Are you really claiming that? Hmm…
Humility is the first stage of wisdom.

peace,
Michael

 

[Shai22]

To Joshua

There are many traditions that are considered good, and that GOD allows according to scripture, but beatification is not one of them,.

The reason is this. GOD judges people and determines their worthiness.HE sees all things. Human beings cannot do this because they cannot see if the person has any “secrets” for which they are hiding from the public. No one can hide from GOD.

I know you speak to GOD Joshua, and I know that GOD speaks back to you. I pray that you ask HIM about the saints, and remember Joshua, that sometimes GOD’S truth is not what is expected and it can shake the foundation we stand on. Be Strong.

 

[Shai22]

To Michael

FEAR OF EGO CAN ALSO BRING HUMILITY.

I’m glad you know the condition of my walk with God. Really? Are you really claiming that?

I did not say you did not love GOD, I said you don’t walk close to him.

GOD teaches about the different relationships that people have with HIM, some are shallow and unemotional, and some are as needed,
and some are neutral. GOD also teaches that when someone speaks the words they choose tells a lot about them.

It’s like I know you have a lot of aggression problems, very macho kind of man, not humbling or sensitive. It’s either your way or no way. You carry pain and resentment within you, but I do not know the particulars of that pain and resentment. Anyway that’s enough said.

Have a good day Michael.

I am asked by GOD to share a message I received from the Angel Christine Michael. So here it is

When you find that you are frustrated, sad and can’t see any hope, try to remember to breathe, you are learning patience and endurance.
Know that your life is not going unseen, and your prayers are being heard.

 

[phil8888]

Well, its true. Just cause you say the Church is the true church does not make it truth, it makes it a opinoin.

You keep responding to everything by claiming it’s an opinion. There’s plenty of proof for the Catholic Church in the Bible, you just have to look. Catholic means universal. People were calling it that right from the beginning.

We are the only church that has the same doctrine going all the way back to the apostles and the Bible.

Non-Catholics (and non-Orthodox) got rid of the priesthood, therefore there was no hierarchy, which means no teaching from the universal church because you guys all have your own opinions. The Westboro Baptist Church uses the same Bible, but look how they interpret it. How can you say your interpretation is any better?

Also, no priests means no sacraments, meaning you can’t accept the doctrine of the Eucharist. Even though the Bible is very clear on the Eucharist, you have no way of believing it because it’s not available in your church because there is no one to consecrate the gifts.

Also, because of no priests, there is no confession, even though Jesus told just the apostles to forgive sins. The bishops are the spiritual descendants of the apostles. But you don’t have apostolic succession, so you can’t believe in that.

And the list goes on.

 

[Shike]

The reason is this. GOD judges people and determines their worthiness.HE sees all things. Human beings cannot do this because they cannot see if the person has any “secrets” for which they are hiding from the public. No one can hide from GOD.

You are underestimating God’s involvement with the Church. The Church is the body of Christ. Who’s to say what God can and cannot reveal? That’s what the cannonization process is. It would be helpful to look at the catechism of the CC to learn what they actually teach.

It’s like I know you have a lot of aggression problems, very macho kind of man, not humbling or sensitive. It’s either your way or no way. You carry pain and resentment within you, but I do not know the particulars of that pain and resentment. Anyway that’s enough said.

Hehe, nope; but it’s a good guess since it seems sometimes that a lot of people are like that. I’m actually very sensitive (more than I should be) and shy. I pray for courage a lot. I do not carry any pain or resentment inside, I gave that all to Christ in confession… the burden was lifted off my shoulders (most physically as well as spiritually). Sin is a reality and one can absolutely trust that Jesus will remove sin in the sacrament of confession (not saying that it can’t happen in other ways, just that it’s almost garenteed… provided you are at least a little sorry and don’t want to do them again); it’s so beautiful… I would die to show someone this and perhaps someday I will (although my actions don’t always show that). I am now looking for the best way to dispose of myself entirely for Christ. Right now I’m thinking and discerning towards a Franciscan order.

I’m worried for you. If you can be so very wrong about me, how can you be so sure of your revelation of infallible interpretation of the Bible from God? An infallible interpretation that is actually wrong if… if you do not believe Jesus is God.

peace,
Michael

 

[Shai22]

Tell GOD Michael, not me. You can hide things from anyone, but never from GOD.

Perhaps you think it’s been lifted, but not.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

Don’t worry about me, I’m in GOD’S hands, but thank you anyway for your concern.

 

[happilycatholic]

To Happily Catholic

That’s my point. Faith is not a denomination. Catholicism is not a denomination. Jesus didn’t need to say that whomsoever does as my Father says is catholic. Jesus in including those that do God’s will. Those that do God’s will are part of the Body of Christ, Jesus’ church universal. Hence the Catholic Church

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD HAPPILY BY SAYING THOSE THAT DO GOD’S WILL. But the Catholic church is not the only ones there are millions who do GOD’S will that is not catholic.

Really? I mean this respectfully, do you follow the Apostles teachings or some other “person” who decided 1500 years after Christ’s Church was established, that he/she didn’t quite like what Christ’s Church was about and changed a few things, including Scripture in some cases. It is wonderful to be a non-catholic Christian, but don’t minimize the catholic faith by saying we are not what we claim to be. We most certainly ARE Christ’s Church Universal. We most certainly follow Christ’s direction through His Apostles more closely than our Protestant brothers. That is why they are our “protestant” brothers. So many on this site cringe at that word yet continue to be Protestant. That’s fine, but don’t minimize the catholic faith to prove your own faith worthy.

I’m not saying only those that are confirmed catholic will be in Heaven. Don’t twist my words please. What I AM saying is that Catholics consider themselves more orthodox in Christian faith to say the least and all Christian faiths fall under our umbrella so-to-speak. I know you won’t like that analogy, but it is what it is. You are non-catholic because you do not approve of the catholic doctrine and yet the catholic doctrine is the most close to the doctrine of faith that the Apostles taught.

When one learns the TRUTH from GOD, one is opened to see the TRUTH in all who speak it and live it, no matter who they are.
In the book of Exodus, GOD told Moses that HE would accept the “foreigners” that lived with them as long as they lived by the same Laws and commands. [foreigners were people of different faith, than the Israelites]

I’m not sure what vague definition you attach to the “TRUTH”, but if you mean a relationship with God whereby you practice His will, then you are correct. If you mean that simply “knowing the TRUTH” will save you, you are incorrect. Satan “knows the TRUTH”. It takes a bit more than saying you believe, knowing the TRUTH, and/or haveing a relationship with God because the evil one has all those things as well. You have to DO God’s will not just KNOW God’s will. Part of that is how you PRACTICE your faith.

GOOD for you Happily that you recognize that the church is within you, instead of being a structural building, and that it will never close.

I also recognize that the Church has a very tangible aspect as well. One of faith formation and faith direction. The Church is Scripturally responsible for those two things. Since the Keys were given to Peter, Christ has been with the Church and promised to never leave the Church and to be within us all if we accept Him.

Peace Be With You

HC

 

[Shike]

Tell GOD Michael, not me. You can hide things from anyone, but never from GOD.

Perhaps you think it’s been lifted, but not.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

Don’t worry about me, I’m in GOD’S hands, but thank you anyway for your concern.

Are you implying that I am still in mortal sin?
If you claim to be a messenger from God, such a messenger would be helpful. You are not being helpful with your cagey answers, and refusal to be clear and concise.

I implore you to re-evaluate your standing with God. Because such revelations that you are posting about me are false. This is to help you. What you said is false. If you had some kind of revelation from God about this, it would be a false revelation and therefore not God. If it’s not of God, then it is either from the devil or some kind of psychological thing. Be careful. My advice is for you to seek out Christian friends who believe in Jesus as God and ask them to pray over you, just to be safe.

But alas, this thread has degenerated into something unrecognizable, not wholey due to my original questions not being answered.

peace,
Michael

 

[happilycatholic]

Gabriel 12. I pray that Gabriel is your real name, and that you have not taken on a name of the Great Angel Gabriel. To do so goes against GOD’S command.

To Answer your question about denying the Saint. I’m not at liberty to fully explain but I can tell you that you will fully understand why I said that in the future.

Regarding the saints. I personally do not believe in saints. The only way that a person is given the name saint is if the Vatican Beatifies the person for the great works they do while in the earth time. GOD, nor His Anointed Son Jesus Christ, has given the authority to the Vatican to give that honor to anyone. Beatification is not a Command or Law from GOD, it is a tradition that the Vatican has taken upon itself.

Do I understand correctly, you believe that you receive personal revelations from God but you don’t believe in Saints?

I’m sorry I know that’s off topic but my curiosity got the better of me.

 

[happilycatholic]

You keep responding to everything by claiming it’s an opinion. There’s plenty of proof for the Catholic Church in the Bible, you just have to look.

I agree phil8888!

When people do this I always wish they could visit the Holy See. Here is some information taken from the Vatican’s website:

The modern archives of the Holy See were established thanks to Paul V Borghese around 1610, but the roots of the history of the archives of the Roman Pontiffs reach way back in time, linking up with the very origin, nature, activities and development of the Roman Church itself. Right from the apostolic times, the Popes carefully preserved the manuscripts concerning the exercise of their activities. This collection of manuscripts was kept in the scrinium Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae that usually followed the Popes in their various residences, but the fragility of the papyrus, normally used at the papal chancery until the XI Century, the transfers and the political upheavals nearly caused the total loss of all the archival material preceding Innocent III.

As you can see ChristianKnight, there is plenty of tangible proof that the catholic Church has been entrusted with the Word of God in the form of the entire Deposit of Faith since the time of the Apostles themselves until this very hour.

What you and others just don’t seem to understand is our doctrine is not just something we came up with along the way or started in 1500 with some angry person disillusioned with the Chruch. It’s 100% real, tangible documentation of the Church and its fundemental practice of faith.

Peace Be With You

HC

 

[Roamin_Xian]

Really…? Where to start? If you believe in the Bible you would know that Jesus founded a Church. If you don’t, then you should be aware that the Catholic Church from its outset has always claimed that Jesus founded it. If you don’t believe in Jesus…

Would Jesus very much appreciate all the great and wonderful things that the RCC has often done in His name? Be fair… although I’d question your accusations of culpability for torture of “heretics”… culture, politics, etc. It’s not as simple as you paint everything to be.

Anyone can claim anything- the Romans fought with the Greeks and the Orientals about who was founded by Jesus and whichever saint- a war of claims.

I believe in Jesus, the Humble Gallilean. He would have been utterly shocked by the actions of the Roman Catholic Church, whether authorizing torture of “heretics” and those who gasp disagreed with the Roman Church (Jesus was tortured by Romans anyhow) or introducing alien notions to what was later called Christianity (I don’t think he would have allowed that phrase- it is narcissistic, and that He was not).

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Anyone can claim anything- the Romans fought with the Greeks and the Orientals about who was founded by Jesus and whichever saint- a war of claims.

I t).

There was no dispute in the early Church.

The split with the Orthodox was much later in Christian history.

The early eastern patriarchs acknowledged the primacy of Peter and his successors.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

There was no dispute in the early Church.

The split with the Orthodox was much later in Christian history.

The early eastern patriarchs acknowledged the primacy of Peter and his successors.

Arianism? Gnosticism? Christianity was not monolithic, even after Constantine (though it was far more so after 325)

 

[Shike]

Anyone can claim anything

Do we need to go any further or are you negating the claims of logic and debate?

I believe in Jesus, the Humble Gallilean. He would have been utterly shocked by the actions of the Roman Catholic Church, whether authorizing torture of “heretics” and those who gasp disagreed with the Roman Church (Jesus was tortured by Romans anyhow) or introducing alien notions to what was later called Christianity (I don’t think he would have allowed that phrase- it is narcissistic, and that He was not).

Jesus is and not just was. In my opinion I don’t think he’d be or is shocked at all by the wrong actions of some of the members of His Church–He is God. He did say such things would even happen, did He not? But I agree that He wouldn’t and doesn’t agree with wrong actions.
Don’t absolutely conflate the actions with the teachings. 100% faithful teachings of Jesus with fallible men that do good and bad. It is unreasonable to expect all the members to be perfect, God isn’t going to deny them free will.

peace,
Michael

 

[script77]

There are several problems with this.

First it either undermines or completely ignores 2 very important elements to the Scripture, which are imperative to the context of the passages. First, Peter is given a name change. This is NOT insignifigant. Others who are more brilliant and educated than me can give better commentary on how many times a person is given a new name by God, and what that signifies. The other element that this ignores is the handing of the keys to Peter by Jesus. This was a direct reference of Jesus to the O.T. and Peter (and the rest of the Apostles) would have immediately understood the signifigance of this (as would all first century Jewish converts).

If you correctly understand the giving of the Keys, and the duties and responsibilities it carries with it, then it is impossible to deduce that Jesus was referring to some abstract concept of “absolute Truth”, because a concept can not effectively carry out the duties and responsibilities that would come along with posessing the keys.

Remember also, Jesus asked Peter to feed His sheep…only a shepherd does that, right?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Arianism? Gnosticism? Christianity was not monolithic, even after Constantine (though it was far more so after 325)

They were not disputing the primacy of Peter or the papacy.

Gnostics weren’t even Christian.

Arianism denied that Christ was human.

Those are not splits within Christianity as we know it.

 

[ChristianKnight]

How can you say your interpretation is any better?

Also, no priests means no sacraments, meaning you can’t accept the doctrine of the Eucharist. Even though the Bible is very clear on the Eucharist, you have no way of believing it because it’s not available in your church because there is no one to consecrate the gifts.

Also, because of no priests, there is no confession, even though Jesus told just the apostles to forgive sins. The bishops are the spiritual descendants of the apostles. But you don’t have apostolic succession, so you can’t believe in that.

And the list goes on.

I didn’t say that, but how can you?

You don’t know that.

Who said they ever let the ability succeed? You?

 

[ChristianKnight]

I agree phil8888!

When people do this I always wish they could visit the Holy See. Here is some information taken from the Vatican’s website:

The modern archives of the Holy See were established thanks to Paul V Borghese around 1610, but the roots of the history of the archives of the Roman Pontiffs reach way back in time, linking up with the very origin, nature, activities and development of the Roman Church itself. Right from the apostolic times, the Popes carefully preserved the manuscripts concerning the exercise of their activities. This collection of manuscripts was kept in the scrinium Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae that usually followed the Popes in their various residences, but the fragility of the papyrus, normally used at the papal chancery until the XI Century, the transfers and the political upheavals nearly caused the total loss of all the archival material preceding Innocent III.

As you can see ChristianKnight, there is plenty of tangible proof that the catholic Church has been entrusted with the Word of God in the form of the entire Deposit of Faith since the time of the Apostles themselves until this very hour.

What you and others just don’t seem to understand is our doctrine is not just something we came up with along the way or started in 1500 with some angry person disillusioned with the Chruch. It’s 100% real, tangible documentation of the Church and its fundemental practice of faith.

Peace Be With You

HC

I see no proof. Who says Peter passed down his skills? Same for the disciples?

Do you think I really care if my church is somehow inferior to you? Really, “omgosh, his church is only 400 years old!” really…

 

[happilycatholic]

I see no proof. Who says Peter passed down his skills? Same for the disciples?

Do you think I really care if my church is somehow inferior to you? Really, “omgosh, his church is only 400 years old!” really…

Did I say “your church” was inferior to “my church”? I’m not playing some kind of kindergarten “my … is better than your …” game.

Seriously, put your big boy pants on.