Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

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ckempston said:
It’s easy to maintain unity when everyone who disagrees gets kicked out (or in years past, killed).
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Not kicked out, excommunicated.

This simply means that you are not in full communion with the Church and are therefore not eligible for receiving sacraments.

You can still attend mass.

You are free to disagree, but then you wouldn’t be Catholic.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Not kicked out, excommunicated.

This simply means that you are not in full communion with the Church and are therefore not eligible for receiving sacraments.

You can still attend mass.

You are free to disagree, but then you wouldn’t be Catholic.
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CR - if I said the sky was blue, you’d find a way to disagree with me.
 
ckempston said:
CR - if I said the sky was blue, you’d find a way to disagree with me.
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If the sky was gray, I would be correct in doing so.

There is only one Catholic Doctrine.

I’m not even sure what you are trying to prove. Given that, you clearly didn’t succeed!
 
joshua_b said:
I believe you are referring to excommunication. Excommunication is self-imposed. Christ did not give us a democracy where we have a comittee to sit and vote on doctrinal acceptance. If an individual disagrees with the Church, they excommunicate themselves. If you read the New Testament, you will find that it is a very Biblical principle, supported by recorded history.

I won’t give comment on the parenthetical portion of your non-response, as it does nothing except demonstrate that you have no interest in contributing to this thread in a productive manner, but rather shows your desire to lurk in the shadows and wait with baited anticipation for the opportunity to exploit any comment as an opportunity to promote your Whore of Babylon agenda. The only thing I can offer is an observation that your understanding of Apostolic Christianity and Christian history appears to be no deeper than teh 6 or so pages of a Chick Tract.

If you have what you feel is a legitimate point to discuss, please start another thread about it. If you have something PRODUCTIVE to add to this discussion, I would love to hear it. If your sole purpose is simply to derail this thread with your assertions that the Catholic Church is satanic, pagan, anti-Scriptural, “unsaved”, not Christian, or whatever other ignorant and malformed opinion you have, then please refrain, because I for one am weary of seeing you try to derail an otherwise (mostly) pleasant dialogue.
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**YAY! 😃 **
 
ckempston:
This is getting rediculous. The Church doesn’t excommunicate anyone anymore. I doubt many priests refuse the Eucharist to anyone.

The picture you are trying to portray here is so far from reality it is bordering pure fantasy.

I know of several catholics who take birth control, don’t go to confession, marry without annulments, um let’s see…have intamacy out of marriage and on and on and they have not been excommunicated. I don’t condone this, but it happens.

IT’S CALLED CONFESSION BROTHER! How in the world do you think people that are not catholic come to mass every single Sunday? For all purposes they are heretics for crying outloud. What is wrong with your perception here?

I’m sorry to be blunt but you don’t even think about the stuff you post before you post it.

If I walked right up to my priest this evening and told him all the things you just said here, he’d probably think I’m in serious need of confession but I WOULD NOT be excommunicated.
 
Shai22 said:
Joshua how does a person get excommunicated, and who does it?
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I’m not 100% sure about this but I think excommunication happens primarily with those in leadership positions who teach what is contrary to official doctrine.
 
For SHIA22, On post #292, I ask if you attended any worship services. I not trying to be ugly to you, I was just trying to understand where your coming from.

I have a sister who does not attend anywhere, says she is non-denominational. I felt from your post that you were getting information from some source. I just wondered which church if any you are a member.
 
Shai22 said:
Joshua how does a person get excommunicated, and who does it?
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There are two means of excommunication. One is called “ex facto” (forgive me if I am wrong on the terminology; I’m too lazy to look it up in the Catechism); this is brought on automatically, without formal declaration from the presiding bishop, through the knowing and willful proclamation of heresy. If I, as a Catholic, declare that Jesus is not God in a somehow formal and public manner, knowing full well to be in opposition to official Church teaching, the I have automatically excommunicated myself by virtue of my action.

The other method of excommunication involves a formal declaration of the bishop. An anecdotal example of this is the fiasco in the archdiocese of St. Louis over St. Stanislaus parish. Their actions defied the authority and structure of the universal Church, and they were declared excommunicated by the bishop. (it is not nearly THAT simple, but the details would make a whole thread by themselves).

Excommunication means that one is no longer in communion (agreement) with the Church. It does not technically mean that you are no longer a member, because the Church believes that your membership in the Body of Christ is irrevokable. It means that you are basically out of union with the Body through your own actions.

Excommunications are not ever permanent. To the best of my knowledge, one is always permitted to enter back in communion with the Church. I hope I explained that well enough. If you still have questions, please ask and I will try to clarify or find the answer.
 
happilycatholic said:
This is getting rediculous. The Church doesn’t excommunicate anyone anymore. I doubt many priests refuse the Eucharist to anyone.
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I am going to offer a mild correction here, as the diocese I live in has a whole parish that (to the best of my knowledge) is under a formal declaration of excommunication right now.

Excommunication by formal declaration can only be done by the presiding bishop. That declaration is binding in all other diocese as well; the authority of this declaration is recognized as universal throughout the Church.

It IS rarely used, and as another poster pointed out, is mostly reserved for cases involving clergy, but it does still happen.
 
Huh, must have overlooked this one.
joshua_b said:
I believe you are referring to excommunication. Excommunication is self-imposed. Christ did not give us a democracy where we have a comittee to sit and vote on doctrinal acceptance. If an individual disagrees with the Church, they excommunicate themselves. If you read the New Testament, you will find that it is a very Biblical principle, supported by recorded history.
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I certainly was. Excommunication can be de facto, and can also be imposed. It is not only a thing that someone does to himself.
I won’t give comment on the parenthetical portion of your non-response, as it does nothing except demonstrate that you have no interest in contributing to this thread in a productive manner, but rather shows your desire to lurk in the shadows and wait with baited anticipation for the opportunity to exploit any comment as an opportunity to promote your Whore of Babylon agenda. The only thing I can offer is an observation that your understanding of Apostolic Christianity and Christian history appears to be no deeper than teh 6 or so pages of a Chick Tract.
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I’ll be awaiting your apology, because nowhere have I called the Catholic church the whore of Babylon, nor do I believe such a thing. Neither have I quoted Jack Chick. You can stop attacking the straw men any time. I have substantive differences with the Catholic church, and when a Catholic wants to have a dialogue instead of grouping me in with the Jack Chicks of the world (as you have done), I’m glad to have a meaningful and respectful discussion.
If you have what you feel is a legitimate point to discuss, please start another thread about it. If you have something PRODUCTIVE to add to this discussion, I would love to hear it. If your sole purpose is simply to derail this thread with your assertions that the Catholic Church is satanic, pagan, anti-Scriptural, “unsaved”, not Christian, or whatever other ignorant and malformed opinion you have, then please refrain, because I for one am weary of seeing you try to derail an otherwise (mostly) pleasant dialogue.
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Once again, I’m going to ask you for an apology, or for you to point out where I have used the words satanic, pagan, unsaved, or not Christian, because I don’t believe any of those things. The word “church” indeed has some pagan origins, but then again, so does most of the English language. You simply misunderstand my intent. I also do think some things in the Catholic church are unscriptural, so that is a valid point, but I fail to see how that makes me ignorant or malinformed.

So far, there has been no substance in this thread other than Catholics re-affirming the thread title. There have been no valid arguments to support this assertion, so I’m not sure how you can accuse me of derailing anything.
 
joshua_b said:
I am going to offer a mild correction here, as the diocese I live in has a whole parish that (to the best of my knowledge) is under a formal declaration of excommunication right now.

Excommunication by formal declaration can only be done by the presiding bishop. That declaration is binding in all other diocese as well; the authority of this declaration is recognized as universal throughout the Church.

It IS rarely used, and as another poster pointed out, is mostly reserved for cases involving clergy, but it does still happen.
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**You are right, I stand corrected. 😊 But not for simply “disagreeing” with the Church. **
What on earth did they do??
 
ckempston said:
Huh, must have overlooked this one.
I certainly was. Excommunication can be de facto, and can also be imposed. It is not only a thing that someone does to himself.
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Whether it is de facto or by formal declaration, it is ALWAYS the result of an individual’s behavior. No one ever gets “blindsided” with a declaration of excommunication. I challenge you to cite one documented case of a Catholic ever being excommunicated without having knowledge it was going to happen beforehand, and, having without having full opportunity to prevent it.
 
happilycatholic said:
**You are right, I stand corrected. 😊 But not for simply “disagreeing” with the Church. **
What on earth did they do??
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St Stanislaus parish in St. Louis. It’s a long and detailed story, and could easily fill a whole new thread entirely. If you look for the details on google or something, and settle in to do a little reading, you will probably find it quite interesting. It’s definitely a fiasco.
 
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