Possible changes you would like to see with the Extraodinary form?

[malphono]

Has the Sarum rite ever been done in English?

The Sarum usage was suppressed by Trent. If it’s done at all these days, (in whatever language), it’s either
(a) illicit, precisely because it was officially suppressed, or
(b) illicit (and perhaps invalid) because it was done by some priest in some church not in union.

Wouldn’t that be closer to the EF than the Anglican use?

As I understand it, the Anglicans borrowed some things from Sarum

I think the EF is great–so great that people should be able to hear it in English.

Is it bad to desire such a thing?

I agree that it wouldn’t be great when it comes to chanting.

I can even imagine a 75% English and 25% Latin mass.

Would such a thing necessarily be bad?

I prefer to leave the Latin in place, and the leave the EF as it is, perhaps with a tweak here and there, but nothing major.

What you suggest actually did exist in the the ill-fated “interim Missal” of 1965. About 15 minutes after it was promulgated, the liturgical “novelties” began to appear. So, yes, I can imagine it, but I’d rather not. It’d be kind of like a recurring nightmare.

What would the OF be like if EF lovers had been charged with coming up with it?

There would have been no need for an OF.

Is it possible to love the EF and be able to formulate a better OF?

I suppose so. PP Benedict XVI seems to be of that opinion.

 

[WhollyRoamin]

The Sarum usage was suppressed by Trent. If it’s done at all these days, (in whatever language), it’s either
(a) illicit, precisely because it was officially suppressed, or
(b) illicit (and perhaps invalid) because it was done by some priest in some church not in union.

The Sarum Rite can be used with permission.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZELfmKMKgWs

 

[malphono]

The Sarum Rite can be used with permission.

Yes, I suppose just about anything can be used “with permission.” I’d like to see the Gallican usage too but that’s highly doubtful. But even them, if either of them is to be done correctly, it would be in Latin.

In any case, I’d be careful with the Sarum in particular, mainly because in recent times it’s been co-opted (of course not in Latin) by the “Western Rite Orthodox” in union with the ROCOR.

 

[Ghoti]

At the risk of drawing any ire on myself…

I have only been to a few Latin Masses…some sung Novus Ordo, a High Mass (Oratorian) and a Low Mass (FSSP).

Here’s one I’d like to go to, just to see:

• Latin High Mass
• dialogue
• with chant and polyphony
• Epistle & Gospel sung in Latin, repeated in English maybe

I have heard Chant before – I have a few Chant CDs, I love to listen to them, especially when I am feeling down, or insomniac. However, the first time I heard polyphony at Mass, I almost wept. I was very startled, actually. It was the Kyrie, and I can’t describe how I felt the way the voices seemed to soar around me (I sometimes can “see” music in my mind’s eye when I hear it). The High Mass was all chant, the Low was a cantor and an organ solo. It was the NO that featured both chant (most parts sung by the priest and deacons) plus the polyphony by the choir in the loft above.

I think the dialogue Mass, as it’s described, would be the traditional equivalent of what I am familiar with in the Pauline Mass.

The repetition of the Epistle and Gospel in English would not be necessary to me, as the translations are in the Missal, and if you don’t have one, there are the “cheat sheets” that the Oratorians hand out (and you can get online as well – the Introit, Epistle, Gospel, Collect, etc).

And yes, I am slowly falling in love with Latin. But I have inherited the post-VII tendency to “know what’s going on”, and burn to pray out loud the way I always have . It can be heard to follow with the Missal sometimes, because in my Missal, 1. the pictures of what the priest is doing are not on the same page as what he is saying; 2. he prays faster than I can read; 3. the directions are in Latin too!

But that’s just me. Maybe I’ll come around further due to the influence of the mind-altering smoke and the subliminal chanting. :whacky:

 

[twf]

ZP -

Thanks-
So an OF can be done in Latin and vernacular is optional. We have a Church in our diocese that has a Latin Mass every Sunday. Is it possible that this is in OF? I guess the best way to find out is to ask the Pastor!

Yes it is possible. Yeah, you’d have to check with the pastor. I’ve been to a few OF masses said in Latin, and many sung/said in a combination of English/Latin. As far as pure Latin masses go, I much prefer an EF over a Latin OF. A solemn, sung/chanted, English-Latin OF with a full procession, choir, incense, etc can be breath-taking as well though.

 

[eichenb2]

I’ve got a better idea. Leave the Traditional Mass alone and fix the one that’s broken.

I have to agree here.