Possible changes you would like to see with the Extraodinary form?

[Ottaviani]

I wish the pope would make it OK for the EF to be done in English–let the Holy Father make sure the English translation was as good as possible.

Would the universe blow up if the EF was ever done in English?

Just think if absolutely NOTHING was changed about the EF but it was done in English.

How bad would that be?

Would the saints in heaven rip their robes to shreds and shout blasphemy?

It’s a shame things didn’t happen that way
The Tridentine Mass had been celebrated in the vernacular by indult since, I believe the time Pius X. So it had happened.

Not sure what they would do about the ordinaries at High Mass. I must admit it would sound kind of weird to hear the Gloria or the Creed sung in vernacular Gregorian chant.

 

[Rabbititus]

I wish the pope would make it OK for the EF to be done in English–let the Holy Father make sure the English translation was as good as possible.

Would the universe blow up if the EF was ever done in English?

Just think if absolutely NOTHING was changed about the EF but it was done in English.

How bad would that be?

Would the saints in heaven rip their robes to shreds and shout blasphemy?

I think the EF in English would also be a good idea, but worry it might totally kill our wonderful chant tradition and undermine Vatican II’s demand that we know the Mass in Latin. I almost think vernacular should be allowed in a “progressive solemnity” sort of way. The more solemn the Mass, the more Latin it is required to have. Thus, Solemn High Mass and Pontifical High Mass would be entirely Latin, Sung Mass (or just plain “High” Mass) could render the propers in vernacular while the ordinary stays Latin, and Low Mass could be almost entirely vernacular, save for the “quiet” parts.

I don’t really think any changes should be made to the EF otherwise, not at this point in history, save for updating the calendar with new saints, or trying to merge the new and old calendar to make it easier for a parish to celebrate both the EF and OF.

 

[RUINATION_IPA]

I’ll +1 the thing about the only problem being lazy laity. I’m new to tradition, being born post V2, and if I had access to a daily latin mass instead of weekly then I’d probably have 75% of the Mass down pat in latin. My 6 and 3 year olds picked up the latin real quick and know the In nomine Patris, the sanctus, the agnus Dei, the Gloria Patri by heart and can point out the first few lines of the credo, the Pater Noster, the Dominus Vobiscum and response… I’m not kidding! My 3 year old daughter can recite all of the prayers of the rosary in latin with the exception of the Creed, Our Father, and the ending prayers (ie. Salve Regina, etc…) Now I’ll admit learning the rosary in latin was a family endeavor and they picked it up quicker than my wife and I but the parts of the Mass they memorized was on their own for the most part - and most of the time I think their not paying attention at Mass! Hah!

Point is there’s many noble and thought provoking arguments in favor of latin but I think the biggest obstacle to it is the knee jerk reaction due to our inherent american fast-food-mentality laziness. The latin shoud be no obstacle in modern society with our vastly superior intellects compared to those peons during the middle ages

 

[Paco_Nyad]

Better still: make the EF part of a separate Church Sui Iuris, and keep the OF and EF favoring crowds under separate bishops who share their liturgical norms… Something which Archbishop Lefebvre had asked for in the 1980’s.

It works for the Eastern Churches in Union…

Ain’t ever gonna happen. Those traditions or “churches” are historically based on ethnic/geographic differences.

Talk about a waste of resources if such a change was ever made. On the same level as a “Anglican Rite” within the Church.

 

[Paco_Nyad]

How 'bout no changes in the EF at all? For that matter, how 'bout no changes in the OF either?

John

HURRAY!

 

[DavidPalm]

Wow Dave, thanks for diligently lurking after me and dissecting every post for perceived errors.

Don’t flatter yourself.

 

[srp643]

Let’s change Jesus’ very own sacred words during the consecration.

---

Those words have always been liturgical in the different classical Liturgies, and never exact quotes from Scripture.

Did you know that?

Yep. My comment is directed at the pro multis.

 

[malphono]

Yep. My comment is directed at the pro multis.

I have to assume this is a remark about the common usage in the US (or other English-speaking countries). If so, this is strictly a matter of the usual ICEL poor (or mis) translation, which we are all, for better or worse, already aware of. The Latin text of he OF, in the editio typica, is “pro multis.” If the intent of the post is something else, please enlighten us.

 

[adstrinity]

I’ll do you one better: re-instate the 1962 Good Friday prayer

What’s The Good Friday prayer?

 

[ProVobis]

I wish the pope would make it OK for the EF to be done in English–let the Holy Father make sure the English translation was as good as possible.

Try the Anglican Use Mass.

 

[malphono]

What’s The Good Friday prayer?

I have as feeling it means the one that was “pro conversione judeorum”.

 

[malphono]

Try the Anglican Use Mass.

Well, it’s not quite the same, but it’s close.

 

[srp643]

I have to assume this is a remark about the common usage in the US (or other English-speaking countries). If so, this is strictly a matter of the usual ICEL poor (or mis) translation, which we are all, for better or worse, already aware of. The Latin text of he OF, in the editio typica, is “pro multis.” If the intent of the post is something else, please enlighten us.

Correct but NOT ALL are aware of this, not even close. In fact, based on my own experience I would guess that only a small minority of Catholics are aware of the mistranslation. I cannot name more than one Catholic I have ever spoken to that was aware, and when I enlighten them, they are incredulous.

 

[ProVobis]

Well, it’s not quite the same, but it’s close.

Seems we can’t get out of that English “for all” consecration, can we?

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t see allowing changes except to
a) expand the number of missals promulgated before 1962 that are allowed
b) as a limited number of options, allow the rubrics for the ordinary form to incorporate past practices that are not currently a part of it.

IOW, if a Pope is looking down from Heaven and seeing the Mass offered from a missal that has his name on it, let him be smiling. If a form from before Vatican II is approved for use, don’t allow any changes to it (excepting parts in the vulgar language, where translations may need to be updated in order to remain faithful to the original language).

 

[ProVobis]

IOW, if a Pope is looking down from Heaven and seeing the Mass offered from a missal that has his name on it, let him be smiling. If a form from before Vatican II is approved for use, don’t allow any changes to it (excepting parts in the vulgar language, where translations may need to be updated in order to remain faithful to the original language).

Not counting the Eastern rites, there is no form before Vatican II in which there is something other than Latin written in it. (Except the Kyrie and the Hosanna, of course.)

 

[EasterJoy]

Not counting the Eastern rites, there is no form before Vatican II in which there is something other than Latin written in it. (Except the Kyrie and the Hosanna, of course.)

In that case, let them be.

The Pope is the Supreme Liturgist of the Church, but I think each one would rightly want the Mass promulgated in his own time to be left alone. Let the current Pope allow the forms of his predecessors that he deems appropriate be allowed as they were originally promulgated, as Extraordinary Forms, and let him promulgate his own form as the Ordinary Form.

 

[Kearney]

What Pope are we talking about? Blessed JohnXXIII or St Puis V?

 

[Layman]

A principle engineering: If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

I am highly amused at Kearney’s suggestion to ‘update’ the TLM. Go a bit further and you could then have … The N. O. Mass!

Ah, that the TLM might be available soon in every parish in Catholic Christendom.

Sans novelties!

To paraphrase what a poster on this forum once said: If the N.O. mass were to become as scarce as the TLM once was, do you think afficionados would travel 100 miles to hear one?

 

[LUISV]

I wish the pope would make it OK for the EF to be done in English–let the Holy Father make sure the English translation was as good as possible.

Would the universe blow up if the EF was ever done in English?

Just think if absolutely NOTHING was changed about the EF but it was done in English.

How bad would that be?

Would the saints in heaven rip their robes to shreds and shout blasphemy?

If you want a good idea of what it would be like, visit an Anglican Use parish.