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whatistrue
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Other than decades of experience of course. Like Oregon, which has been entirely mail voting since 1998.
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HarryStotle
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You will have to provide that evidence if you expect to be believed.adamhovey1988:
But there is evidence that mail in voting is not only safe, but accurate. Yet some people still believe it isn’t. Kind of makes you wonder.
Mail in voting, by itself, may not be terribly risky, but when coupled with…
- ballots arriving days and even weeks after election day
- ballots not requiring any authentication
- a complete breakdown in the chain of custody of those ballots
- a complete lack of transparency for how those ballots are tabulated
Example…
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HarryStotle
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Let’s break down another potentially very serious possibility for fraud.
Antrim County, Michigan, updated and revised numbers for the presidential and U.S. Senate races when it was discovered that the tally numbers were reversed by a “computer glitch.” That meant the votes that should have gone to Trump went to Biden. A net gain of about 2500 votes.
The computer programs involved are called Hammer and Scorecard. I believe the first is the ballot reading software and the second keeps the tabulation or “score.”
The same software is used in 47 different counties across Michigan. It is used in 28 states including every one of the swing states that are currently still in play.
That software glitch is opening the doors to an investigation of whether the malfunction was a one-off or something else. We shall see, but it will be looked into by a mandatory audit, at least in Michigan - but that may trigger a more thorough investigation.
Judges have recalled elections in the past.
Same software triggered recount in Oakland.
Antrim County, Michigan, updated and revised numbers for the presidential and U.S. Senate races when it was discovered that the tally numbers were reversed by a “computer glitch.” That meant the votes that should have gone to Trump went to Biden. A net gain of about 2500 votes.
The computer programs involved are called Hammer and Scorecard. I believe the first is the ballot reading software and the second keeps the tabulation or “score.”
The same software is used in 47 different counties across Michigan. It is used in 28 states including every one of the swing states that are currently still in play.
That software glitch is opening the doors to an investigation of whether the malfunction was a one-off or something else. We shall see, but it will be looked into by a mandatory audit, at least in Michigan - but that may trigger a more thorough investigation.
Judges have recalled elections in the past.
Same software triggered recount in Oakland.
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Maximian
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It’s perfectly possible that in a few key states extra votes have been added in illegally. Officials are, sadly, capable of turning a blind eye when it suits them (think of McCarrick or Epstein cases). There are people who can perfectly forge banknotes. Ballot papers are much easier.
To see if this happened, investigators will start by looking for anomalies. Did a state have an increase in turnout figures much bigger than other states? Was there an abnormal surge at a particular time in favour of one candidate? If these sorts of questions raise suspicions, they will have to look deeper.
To see if this happened, investigators will start by looking for anomalies. Did a state have an increase in turnout figures much bigger than other states? Was there an abnormal surge at a particular time in favour of one candidate? If these sorts of questions raise suspicions, they will have to look deeper.
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HarryStotle
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Another possibility of fraud has to do with the move to delay counts.
After the advance polling numbers are in and the election day votes are counted, that provides unscrupulous fraudsters with accurate numbers that must be met by additional (and fraudulent) ballots.
It is not a coincidence that polling centers were shut down in the late evening on election night and volunteers were sent home. This lag provided those in position to commit successful fraud the opportunity to add a sufficient number of ballots to reverse any lead in the direction of their chosen candidate. The close races are still in play because of the interference of state governors, attorneys general and partisan judges that permitted more and more leeway and time to “find” the necessary ballots to make up the shortfall.
Means, motive and opportunity all align and produce at minimum a suspicion of foul play.
The problem is that the hocus pocus is very difficult (but not impossible) to catch after the fact because envelopes and matching signatures have been destroyed.
Florida had major issues in 2016 because of two corrupt election supervisors in two counties. Those two were fired and Florida had no problem finishing its count by 10 pm the evening of the election this year despite having the third largest population of all the states.
Same kind of hanky panky is going on in many states this election. It is difficult to find evidence for this after the fact, but there are ways.
After the advance polling numbers are in and the election day votes are counted, that provides unscrupulous fraudsters with accurate numbers that must be met by additional (and fraudulent) ballots.
It is not a coincidence that polling centers were shut down in the late evening on election night and volunteers were sent home. This lag provided those in position to commit successful fraud the opportunity to add a sufficient number of ballots to reverse any lead in the direction of their chosen candidate. The close races are still in play because of the interference of state governors, attorneys general and partisan judges that permitted more and more leeway and time to “find” the necessary ballots to make up the shortfall.
Means, motive and opportunity all align and produce at minimum a suspicion of foul play.
The problem is that the hocus pocus is very difficult (but not impossible) to catch after the fact because envelopes and matching signatures have been destroyed.
Florida had major issues in 2016 because of two corrupt election supervisors in two counties. Those two were fired and Florida had no problem finishing its count by 10 pm the evening of the election this year despite having the third largest population of all the states.
Same kind of hanky panky is going on in many states this election. It is difficult to find evidence for this after the fact, but there are ways.
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LilyM
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It is possible, but to pull off, undetected, enough fraud in enough places to sway the result significantly would be a huge undertaking. I should think large numbers of people would have to be involved which would make it all the more difficult.
I would say that pending further specific details of widespread actual,not just possible,fraud, folk are entitled in Christian charity to the benefit of doubt and the presumption of honest intent.
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HarryStotle
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Christian charity doesn’t presume anything except God’s providential concern.
It is somewhat of a distortion to presume honest intent as the baseline. We are all sinners, so what is to be expected is sin and betrayal. Concupiscence is part of the human condition
So we give the benefit of the doubt in the way we treat others, but presuming they are good and honest to the core can lead to devastation because of betrayal.
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Maximian
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Extremely well put, Harry
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HarryStotle
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The most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization ever assembled could do it.
Biden was signaling. His Catholic guilt was confessing to relieve himself of the burden.
And there is evidence being assembled broadly.
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StudentMI
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Conspiracies happen, but as with similar conspiracy theories, where’s the evidence? Large enough conspiracies need notes, sometimes budgeting, communications, etc. There is no conspiracy here.
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HarryStotle
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So you want to make the call before the evidence is assembled that there is no evidence to assemble?LilyM:
Conspiracies happen, but as with similar conspiracy theories, where’s the evidence? Large enough conspiracies need notes, sometimes budgeting, communications, etc. There is no conspiracy here.
You are certain of that how?
You could have a career at Fox if you continue down that path. Mishkin 2.0.
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StudentMI
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I can pretty much guarantee there is no wide ranging conspiracy, my friend. Individual instances of voted fraud do not a conspiracy make. Voter fraud happens in every election, I’m sure. Doesn’t imply a vast conspiracy.
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HarryStotle
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YOU can guarantee that?HarryStotle:
I can pretty much guarantee there is no wide ranging conspiracy, my friend. Individual instances of voted fraud do not a conspiracy make. Voter fraud happens in every election, I’m sure. Doesn’t imply a vast conspiracy.
Can you also guarantee my defective refrigerator?
I’ll send you the paperwork post haste for a replacement.
Oh…
“…pretty much guarantee…”
Never mind.
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StudentMI
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Sarcasm aside, your side hasn’t really presented any good evidence. What you’ve presented are conspiracy theories and twisted reasoning. Why on earth should I believe there is a conspiracy afoot when I’ve been presented no good evidence of such? Occam’s razor and all.
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HarryStotle
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Be honest. How much time and resources have you spent looking at the evidence you know doesn’t exist and which you also know prior to looking at it is merely wild conspiracy?HarryStotle:
Sarcasm aside, your side hasn’t really presented any good evidence. What you’ve presented are conspiracy theories and twisted reasoning. Why on earth should I believe there is a conspiracy afoot when I’ve been presented no good evidence of such? Occam’s razor and all.
I detect a definite interest in and commitment to surveying the evidence just there.
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StudentMI
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You’ve presented no good evidence. Face it. Your side is increasingly looking like a bunch of tin foil types. At least some like RhodesianSon are facing the facts and urging acceptance. There may be hope yet.
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StudentMI
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Except there is no video. Just speculation and self interested conspiracy theories from Trump and his cohorts.
I spent years reading about the JFK assassination. I was sure there had to be something there to suggest a wide ranging conspiracy. In the end, nope, just a lone individual with a rifle and a chip on his shoulder.
I spent years reading about the JFK assassination. I was sure there had to be something there to suggest a wide ranging conspiracy. In the end, nope, just a lone individual with a rifle and a chip on his shoulder.
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HarryStotle
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I’ll note that you haven’t actually addressed the evidence that I did present in terms of providing specifics for why it isn’t compelling.
You have merely stated you aren’t compelled by it because it seems conspiratorial to you. That is hardly addressing the evidence.
You seem to think that the following should not even raise a concern about fraud.
You have merely stated you aren’t compelled by it because it seems conspiratorial to you. That is hardly addressing the evidence.
You seem to think that the following should not even raise a concern about fraud.
- ballots arriving days and even weeks after election day
- ballots not requiring any authentication
- a complete breakdown in the chain of custody of those ballots
- a complete lack of transparency for how those ballots are tabulated
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StudentMI
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I’m also not going to post long analyses of why jet fuel can weaken steel beams. What’s the point?
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HarryStotle
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We have a confession on video from Joe Biden himself.HarryStotle:
I’m also not going to post long analyses of why jet fuel can weaken steel beams. What’s the point?
You had better save your enthusiasm for defending Joe and the Democrats. If he gets in, you will standing in the breach more often than you will care to.
If you think Trump supporters had it tough the past four years, old Joe is going to be a nightmare for his supporters and Harris even worse.
Better save your jet fuel.
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