Possible obstacles in getting a Tridentine Mass at my local parish

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I did bring up this issue to the priest after Confession yesterday. Get this-- he said he wouldn’t even be able to conduct a tridentine mass since he only took 1 Latin course at the seminary. So if young seminarians are not learning Latin, the tridentine mass could go the way of the dinosaur.
Well, technically he’s following Canon 249. However, it is learned by most seminarians for reasons other than the Tridentine Mass. I agree with Ora, the Latin in the EF is easy Latin, in fact it only uses some 600 distinct words, many of them English (and Spanish) cognates.

And there was a period where Canon 249 was not enforced, though Veterum Sapientia has been very much in force since 1962. This lack of enforcement would explain many priests not having any exposure to Latin.

The study of Latin has seemed to have been resurrected, however, since the papacy of John Paul II and furthered, of course, by Pope Benedict. Also to be credited is Msgr Gallagher, the Pope’s Latinist, who is the Twitter guru in the Vatican, and also has recently celebrated the EF when he visited Michigan.
 
Some good insight-- a lot of smart folks on this site!

Why though, should a group pushing for this Mass have to pay for vestmests, misseletes, etc? My diocesis has ample funds. Then again, since the EF is already being offered locally I do foresee that they may be wary on contributing funds.

I did bring up this issue to the priest after Confession yesterday. Get this-- he said he wouldn’t even be able to conduct a tridentine mass since he only took 1 Latin course at the seminary. So if young seminarians are not learning Latin, the tridentine mass could go the way of the dinosaur.
What classes/activities are they doing in place of Latin?
 
Some good insight-- a lot of smart folks on this site!

Why though, should a group pushing for this Mass have to pay for vestmests, misseletes, etc? My diocesis has ample funds. Then again, since the EF is already being offered locally I do foresee that they may be wary on contributing funds.

I did bring up this issue to the priest after Confession yesterday. Get this-- he said he wouldn’t even be able to conduct a tridentine mass since he only took 1 Latin course at the seminary. So if young seminarians are not learning Latin, the tridentine mass could go the way of the dinosaur.
What you are asking for is not the norm, it is a concession to a particular group of people. Therefore it’s reasonable to expect that particular group of people to help defray the costs of the concession. And these costs can be considerable, especially if they involve travel. Vestments often aren’t cheap and the Missal can be quite pricey too if it is of good quality.

As OraLabora said, it is not difficult to learn to read/pronounce liturgical Latin, which is relatively simple and straightforward. An afternoon of Google browsing and a few hours’ practice sufficed for me. I suspect that what he is saying is that he can’t be bothered, he just wants to put it delicately.
 
I suspect that what he is saying is that he can’t be bothered, he just wants to put it delicately.
“Can’t be bothered” is putting the most negative spin possible on it.

Priests are busy in general and there is a limit on the number of Masses they can celebrate in a day. If he’s already maxed out on Sunday his choices are limited. And if he’s not particularly passionate about the EF, then his choice is easy to make. Would he be willing to have another priest come into the parish to celebrate the Mass? And does the OP know where such a priest might be found?
 
SP seems to have raised expectations beyond the practical realities. Fortunately there are societies like FSSP, a few Benedictine monasteries, and others that have as mission to keep the EF alive and well; so you don’t have to worry about it disappearing. Those of us who prefer the OF but with Gregorian chant and liturgy according to the rubrics are jealous 😦

We have fewer resources keen on making the OF Mass what it was meant to be; although again a few Benedictine monasteries (Benedictines take liturgy seriously) help in doing that but in general it’s been a pretty bleak 40 years liturgically-speaking.
I think your pointing here to the larger problem. I have often thought that Traditional Catholic’s time would be better served trying to get the OF said properly rather getting an EF mass. I think that if the time and effort that are spent on getting an EF where spent on getting the OF said in line with the Vatican II documents we would all have beautiful Masses. As it is I don’t see that the OP has ever established that there is a stable group at her parish.
 
I suspect that what he is saying is that he can’t be bothered, he just wants to put it delicately.
Remember the OP said this discussion took place during confession. The good father can’t come here and correct any kind of mischaracterization, should such occur. You adding your own interpretation is not really fair as the priest can’t defend himself.
 
I think your pointing here to the larger problem. I have often thought that Traditional Catholic’s time would be better served trying to get the OF said properly rather getting an EF mass. I think that if the time and effort that are spent on getting an EF where spent on getting the OF said in line with the Vatican II documents we would all have beautiful Masses. As it is I don’t see that the OP has ever established that there is a stable group at her parish.
Many priests have tried to instill Latin, chant, ad orientem into their Masses among other things, only to be heavily criticized for it. The whole reason for the SP was to make it easier for priests to conduct Mass in the “traditional” way. It seems people will accept the EF much better than having the OF changed. But that’s only my take based on articles and other things I have seen or heard. There was even a Cardinal Arinze video on it.
 
What classes/activities are they doing in place of Latin?
I wouldn’t say they were doing it “in place of Latin,” but I have taken graduate business courses with priests. You and I were discussing the many parish mergers with reduced per capita contributions on another forum recently. In the meantime costs are going up, especially with the bigger crowds after parish mergers. Gone are the days when low-cost teaching by the nuns and monks was offered in Catholic schools. Gone also are the generous contributions of the electricians, painters, plumbers within parishes. My wife, a CPA, used to do pro bono tax returns for the local parish. I don’t think this is done too often anymore.

The Pope announced recently that he would like those in religious institutions to take courses in finance. They have to find other ways of supporting themselves, it seems.
 
Some good insight-- a lot of smart folks on this site!

Why though, should a group pushing for this Mass have to pay for vestmests, misseletes, etc? My diocesis has ample funds. Then again, since the EF is already being offered locally I do foresee that they may be wary on contributing funds.
The simple answer is: because you’re the group who wants it. The diocese is under no obligation to spend anything for the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.

Even if in principle the diocese and parish “ought to” help out (which isn’t the case), reality always prevails. You want it, you spend for it. This is life, which, whether we like it or not, intrudes into ecclesiastical matters as well.
 
I wouldn’t say they were doing it “in place of Latin,” but I have taken graduate business courses with priests. You and I were discussing the many parish mergers with reduced per capita contributions on another forum recently. In the meantime costs are going up, especially with the bigger crowds after parish mergers. Gone are the days when low-cost teaching by the nuns and monks was offered in Catholic schools. Gone also are the generous contributions of the electricians, painters, plumbers within parishes. My wife, a CPA, used to do pro bono tax returns for the local parish. I don’t think this is done too often anymore.

The Pope announced recently that he would like those in religious institutions to take courses in finance. They have to find other ways of supporting themselves, it seems.
Thanks, ProVobis.

The point of my question is to probe as to whether priests have the time to take Latin along with all the other classes they probably have to take (e.g., finance and business courses). I’m guessing that 50 years ago, no priest was expected to take “finance”. I’m also guessing that no priest was expected to learn all about the legal situation that the Church in the U.S. finds itself entangled with due to the sinful actions of a small minority of priests who committed sexual abuse of minors and women.

And I’m guessing that the priests never had to worry about staying in shape back then, but nowadays, priests are under pressure to be physically fit and healthy, so they have to “work out.” (Back then, people worked out by just doing everyday tasks like washing clothes in a wringer washer, chopping food with a knife, opening a garage door by hand, mowing a lawn with a walking mower, etc.)

So much has changed.
 
I’m guessing that 50 years ago, no priest was expected to take “finance”. I’m also guessing that no priest was expected to learn all about the legal situation that the Church in the U.S. finds itself entangled with due to the sinful actions of a small minority of priests who committed sexual abuse of minors and women.
What hurts here are the legal fees as well. It’s gotten to the point the Church is losing money even when someone wills something to the Church. I have no idea as to the extent of business experience anyone had 50 years ago, but an enormous amount of money was spent on razing communion rails, high altars, confessionals, statues, etc. Cash flow took a heavy hit. Yes, and even translations into the several hundreds of vernaculars was costly, which the richer countries (U.S., Germany, and others) basically subsidized. Had they stayed with the Latin (or at least Jubilate Deo) a lot of money could have been saved. Parishes dish out a lot of money for those disposable missalettes which most people don’t even use. As to the study of Latin in the seminaries, I think much of it can be studied in high schools, or even in K-8 as I see one of the local parishes doing.
 
What hurts here are the legal fees as well. It’s gotten to the point the Church is losing money even when someone wills something to the Church. I have no idea as to the extent of business experience anyone had 50 years ago, but an enormous amount of money was spent on razing communion rails, high altars, confessionals, statues, etc. Cash flow took a heavy hit. Yes, and even translations into the several hundreds of vernaculars was costly, which the richer countries (U.S., Germany, and others) basically subsidized. Had they stayed with the Latin (or at least Jubilate Deo) a lot of money could have been saved. Parishes dish out a lot of money for those disposable missalettes which most people don’t even use. As to the study of Latin in the seminaries, I think much of it can be studied in high schools, or even in K-8 as I see one of the local parishes doing.
The idea of K-8 Latin is really interesting! Any more details on what they do?
 
The idea of K-8 Latin is really interesting! Any more details on what they do?
This is as was presented in a recent bulletin. I was actually surprised when I first read it but I’m interested myself and am hoping for updates.
LATIN
As part of the curriculum, Latin will be introduced in
grades K-8. Latin will help students establish a solid base
in the root words of our English language. In fact, Latin
and Greek roots make up 70% of the English language.
Also, students that are exposed to Latin throughout their
elementary school years have shown to excel in high
school and in the college placement exams.
PM me for the entire bulletin as it might be against forum rules to identify parish names.
 
I think an upstart TLM community within a parish is going to have a more difficult time finding a priest who is comfortable celebrating TLM in public then they will with the financial aspect of that form of the mass.

The concern about the cost of vestments is overemphasized in this discussion. It is absolutely not necessary for a priest to purchase additional vestments to start celebrating a regular Latin mass. That can be done later. Used missiles and mass books for the priest are plentiful and not expensive.

Additionally, Catholic churches in developed nations already have almost all of the equipment necessary to transform a free standing altar into one that is appropriate for the TLM. It is plainly demonstrated in this video: youtube.com/watch?v=oUNfbgRJOe8
 
Yes, excellent suggestion. Una Voce has helped many cities bring in the Latin Mass, and they generally begin with a grassroots effort by those interested in the EF in those communities.

But as others have said, Arlington is a hotbed of orthodoxy, so you should have no problems finding an already established parish that says the EF if you are willing to transfer to a different parish.
 
What hurts here are the legal fees as well. It’s gotten to the point the Church is losing money even when someone wills something to the Church. I have no idea as to the extent of business experience anyone had 50 years ago, but an enormous amount of money was spent on razing communion rails, high altars, confessionals, statues, etc. Cash flow took a heavy hit. Yes, and even translations into the several hundreds of vernaculars was costly, which the richer countries (U.S., Germany, and others) basically subsidized. Had they stayed with the Latin (or at least Jubilate Deo) a lot of money could have been saved. Parishes dish out a lot of money for those disposable missalettes which most people don’t even use. As to the study of Latin in the seminaries, I think much of it can be studied in high schools, or even in K-8 as I see one of the local parishes doing.
The traditional Catholic school (K-12th grade) that I volunteer with requires Latin from K-12th grade.

They get away with it because they’re small and private.

It is quite a thrill to hear the smallest children singing hymns and songs all in Latin, by memory, and to pray the Rosary with them in Latin (I stumble through it, since I don’t get Latin very well). As the students get older, they become quite proficient in Latin.

The private prep school that my daughters attended offers Latin from 6th -12th grade, and they produce some of the top Latin scholars in the world. These kids can write papers all in Latin, without using any kind of dictionary. They can translate Latin literary works.

Unfortunately for the Church, almost all of the scholars from that school profess no religion at all or a New Age “spirituality” rather than a religion. Or they are Muslim. Not too many Catholics send their kids to that prep school in our city not only because it’s darned expensive, but also because they prefer to send their kids to the excellent Catholic schools in the city, which don’t offer Latin until high school, but by then, most kids prefer to take Spanish as their foreign language because of its obvious usefulness in modern society.

The problem with schools requiring Latin is that something else has to go, then, and sadly, the schools are under such societal and accreditation pressure to make sure the kids are up to snuff when it comes to math, science, and all the other courses that they will need to be prepared for advanced high school work that will prepare them to score well on the SAT/ACT. That’s how the schools advertise themselves–“98% of our students score 25 or above on the ACT!”

And parents are definitely more interested in schools with good science and math curricula rather than Latin, because science and math means getting into a good college or trade school and eventually getting a good job that pays above a living wage and allows the person to live independently of the parents and even support families.

And as if kids don’t have enough to do with all the courses they have to take in school, there are the extracurricular activities. Many children take some kind of music lessons, and to be honest, ProVobis, if I had to choose for my children between music and Latin–music would win hands down. It’s so incredibly enriching for an entire lifetime, and so useful, too.

But to be seriously taking music lessons means putting in lots of hours practicing. Even little kids should be practicing at least a half hour a day, and that’s one more thing to do along with chores, family time, playing outside, and homework.

And then there are the sports, and before everyone starts clicking their tongue and shaking their finger, we have to keep in mind that many kids earn full ride scholarships to college kicking that soccer ball around. There are a lot of sports scholarships available at public and private colleges, big and small, but very few academic scholarships. These academic scholarships are very hard to earn unless the student is truly a prodigy. Otherwise, there is such competition for the few academic scholarships, and often, colleges and universities reserve the right to give these scholarships to students that will help them to have a more diverse student body, even if those students did not have the highest scores on the SAT/ACT, or the highest GPA. I don’t blame the colleges–it’ s good to have diversity in the student population. But it’s discouraging for students who are merely intelligent, not brilliant.

But in sports, you don’t have to be brilliant or headed for the NFL/NHL/NBA, etc. to win a scholarship. The sport that has the most college scholarships available is…believe it or not…bowling. Cheap for families, indoors, doesn’t require a body of steel…it’s doable.

We’ve had lots of kids from our city go to college on volleyball or basketball scholarships. None of these kids end up in sports careers, but they do earn their Bachelor’s degree with that basketball or volleyball.

So we mustn’t scoff at parents who choose to get their kids involved in sports instead of Latin. It’s good financial sense.

Anyway, I think that selling Latin to the schools is probably not going to happen, especially since even though those devoted to the TLM are very enthusiastic, they are still a very small minority compared to Catholics who prefer the OF in their own language. Sorry, friend.
 
The problem with schools requiring Latin is that something else has to go,
This isn’t necessarily true. Back in the 60’s high school kids were taking Latin, math, science, English, religion, physical education, and music (marching band, etc.) and perhaps German or French. Many still had one or two study halls, which I considered a total waste of money. And it’s not like everyone was taking four years of Latin or learning 1000 Latin words a day either. As with everything else some go slower or faster than the others.

That said, I don’t think everyone taking Latin is necessarily thinking this is for the Latin Mass only. But if you want a higher SAT score or be a contestant on Jeopardy…😃

I understand many priests are reluctant to even begin training for the EF, while their Latin skills may be above average. Wasn’t that way in the 50’s but, hey, that’s life today.
 
I’m pretty sure you can get a good bargain from some black market arms dealers out there.
I do hear that prices are up these days on missiles of mass destruction due to a couple of hot conflicts in the world 😉

On the other hand our choir was recently singing in a parish, and in the choir loft there was a mass of pre-Vatican II missals hoping to avoid destruction 😛
 
On the other hand our choir was recently singing in a parish, and in the choir loft there was a mass of pre-Vatican II missals hoping to avoid destruction 😛
Are you sure they weren’t the first English translations? 😛
 
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