Post-death prayers for forgiveness of sins

[Nick3]

Our parish priest surprised me yesterday on a telecast of a requiem, by announcing that the requiem had no penitential rite as the sins of the deceased had been forgiven, either by the administration of the last rites or by post-death prayers said by the priest for the forgiveness of the sins of the deceased. I have never heard of post-death prayers by a priest that forgive sins of the deceased. Is anyone able to enlighten me?

 

[brown_bear]

It is never certain that a soul is in Paradise instead of in Purgatory, the certainty is only in the case of canonization.

Even if it were very likely, almost certain, that a deceased loved one was in Heaven, for the principle of caution I will continue to pray and offer suffrages, from time to time, for him.

If they are superfluous, God will use them for something else: we are not people who waste time

 

[ses]

I’ve always thought that God can apply prayers at any point in time He chooses so I sometimes do pray for things that have already happened.

 

[Montrose]

Our parish priest surprised me yesterday on a telecast of a requiem, by announcing that the requiem had no penitential rite as the sins of the deceased had been forgiven, either by the administration of the last rites or by post-death prayers said by the priest for the forgiveness of the sins of the deceased. I have never heard of post-death prayers by a priest that forgive sins of the deceased. Is anyone able to enlighten me?

There is no forgiveness after death. That is an infallible Church teaching.
The only wiggle room might be if the prayers are done shortly after death, say within 10 minutes (I picked this number from the air only) because the Church does not know exactly when the soul leaves the body after being pronounced dead.

 

[Nick3]

Thank you all for your replies which confirm my view that, to put it charitably, he was talking sentimental nonsense. There are no post-death prayers said by a priest which have the effect of forgiving sin. He seems to have invented an eighth Sacrament.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There is no forgiveness after death. That is an infallible Church teaching.
The only wiggle room might be if the prayers are done shortly after death, say within 10 minutes (I picked this number from the air only) because the Church does not know exactly when the soul leaves the body after being pronounced dead.

The prayers can be back-dated, applied by God prior to the person’s death, since God is outside time. Padre Pio used this method to pray for the “good death” of his ancestors who had been dead for decades and centuries.

It seems a bit presumptuous to me to assume that a deceased third party’s sins are all forgiven, but if the Church allows a requiem to have no penitential rite then I defer to the Church on this.

 

[Vico]

Our parish priest surprised me yesterday on a telecast of a requiem, by announcing that the requiem had no penitential rite as the sins of the deceased had been forgiven, either by the administration of the last rites or by post-death prayers said by the priest for the forgiveness of the sins of the deceased. I have never heard of post-death prayers by a priest that forgive sins of the deceased. Is anyone able to enlighten me?

The guild of venial sins and temporal punishment for sins may remain remain in the deceased. Venial sin is not contrary to habitual grace or charity. Also all sin produce attachments which must be purged in purgatory when sufficient penance has not been done.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1475 In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things."86 In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin

 

[Gorgias]

There is no forgiveness after death. That is an infallible Church teaching.

Hang on a second, though. The Penitential Act never absolves from mortal sin. But, one of the effects of Purgatory is to forgive previously unforgiven venial sin. So, in a sense, there is forgiveness of sin in Purgatory, and if our prayers aid souls in Purgatory, then his statement kinda makes sense.

Nevertheless – and I’d never thought of it as such – there is no Penitential Act in a funeral Mass.

 

[Montrose]

Hang on a second, though. The Penitential Act never absolves from mortal sin. But, one of the effects of Purgatory is to forgive previously unforgiven venial sin. So, in a sense, there is forgiveness of sin in Purgatory, and if our prayers aid souls in Purgatory, then his statement kinda makes sense.

Nevertheless – and I’d never thought of it as such – there is no Penitential Act in a funeral Mass.

I meant mortal sins. I have the bad habit of not specifying.

 

[Gorgias]

I meant mortal sins.

OK. The Penitential Act never absolves mortal sins, though, so at best, his comments were irrelevant.

On the other hand, there’s no Penitential Act in a wedding Mass, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no hope for forgiveness in the context of getting married!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I did some quick research on this, as we have a past CAF thread where Fr David, one of the priests who used to post here and has left, said that it’s not quite correct to say that the Penitential Act is “omitted” from any Mass because it is always instead replaced by some other rite. Pray Tell Blog explains,

At a Requiem Mass, it is replaced by the sprinkling of the casket with blessed water… There is considerable confusion about the rite of blessing and sprinkling of water. Just because it replaces a penitential act does not mean that it is itself a penitential act. It is not. The sample introduction in the Roman Missal makes it clear that it is a reminder of our baptism ― surely a joyful and not a penitential occasion.

Absolution Confusion - PrayTellBlog

When blessing and sprinkling is done at Mass, as happens at several different types of Masses (Easter, funerals, etc) there is never a penitential act or Kyrie.

The point of the blessing and sprinkling is to commemorate our baptism. In the case of a funeral it commemorates the baptism of the deceased. It doesn’t forgive anyone’s sins, nor does the Penitential Rite forgive anyone’s sins (living or dead). The penitential rite is simply for living persons present to acknowledge their sins before God. Obviously if you’re acknowledging the happy event of your baptism (or deceased person’s baptism) instead, you don’t go from that to acknowledging unhappy sins.

There doesn’t seem to be any connection to the forgiveness of sins of the deceased, either at last rites or by people praying prayers for the deceased after death that get back-dated by God to when person was living. So either this priest was confused or he expressed himself poorly.

In any event, the Penitential Act would be all about the sins of the people present, not the deceased person, who by that point is beyond making Penitential Acts.

 

[Bluebright]

That’s very harsh.
He was being a Christian. Charitable in speech to people mourning the loss of a loved one. It is common place for priests to refer to people at funerals as having gone to heaven (imagine the distress they’d cause if they didn’t? ) it is assumed that the good catholic congregation know that purgatory or (may God forbid) hell are possible. But if he says this unnecessary distress would be caused. Perhaps saying prayers have guaranteed heaven (if this is indeed what he meant) was a little too far but perhaps he believed it or slipped up. I went to a funeral today and found myself called to say the Chaplet of Divine mercy though I don’t know the person and it is likely some time after the death but I believe it saved her soul. You can now call me sentimental just like this priest if you like. I think Gods mercy is that big and doesn’t care a jot about time (the eternal now as someone mentioned). Perhaps the priest thinks that too.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Although I myself pray for the living and the dead all the time, including backdated prayers as I explained above (ses also mentioned this), Nick3 is right that the priest cannot posthumously forgive sins, nor can any of us be sure that someone has been forgiven or saved based on our prayers (unless we have a private revelation from God, and that would be private to us, not something other Catholics were required to believe).

Furthermore, there seems to have been some failure to communicate regarding the priest’s explanation of why the Penitential Rite was not performed. It has nothing to do with forgiving the sins of the deceased.

It is fine to have hope that the person was saved and of course the priest should say encouraging words to that effect around the grieving family. The priest here just seems to have phrased it in an incorrect or confused manner. He and everyone else should continue to pray for the deceased person. This can be done collectively (as in a general prayer for the souls in Purgatory and the souls on earth) or as part of intercessions (when we pray for our deceased family and friends, all those who died from the parish) or specifically by offering a prayer, a Mass etc for the named person.

 

[27lw]

I did some quick research on this, as we have a past CAF thread where Fr David, one of the priests who used to post here and has left, said that it’s not quite correct to say that the Penitential Act is “omitted” from any Mass because it is always instead replaced by some other rite. Pray Tell Blog explains,

At a Requiem Mass, it is replaced by the sprinkling of the casket with blessed water… There is considerable confusion about the rite of blessing and sprinkling of water. Just because it replaces a penitential act does not mean that it is itself a penitential act. It is not. The sample introduction in the Roman Missal makes it clear that it is a reminder of our baptism ― surely a joyful and not a penitential occasion.

Is this strictly true for the EF though? It doesn’t seem that the Asperges replaces anything there, it is before the beginning of Mass.

“The ceremony has been in use at least from the tenth century, growing out of the custom of early antiquity of blessing water for the faithful on Sundays. Its object is to prepare the congregation for the celebration of the Mass by moving them to sentiments of penance and reverence suggested by the words of the fiftieth psalm, or by impressing on them that they are about to assist at the sacrifice of our redemption as suggested in the psalm used at Easter time.”

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_(1913)/Asperges

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My research related to the OF. I think you are correct that in the EF, the Asperges was something separate done before Mass.

However, if this requiem Mass were an EF, no traditional priest would be popping off with a statement suggesting the sins of the deceased were forgiven after death.

 

[BornInMarch]

I have never heard of post-death prayers by a priest that forgive sins of the deceased. Is anyone able to enlighten me?

In Catholicism, when a person dies in a state of sin but has not fallen so far as to be damned (such as if he only had venial sins, or if he imperfectly repented for his mortal sins, or his mortal sins had mitigating circumstances) then before he is allowed into Heaven he might first go to purgatory to be purified first.

When the living pray for the souls of the dead, it decreases their time in purgatory and allows them to become purified and go to Heaven faster.

 

[Montrose]

In Catholicism, when a person dies in a state of sin but has not fallen so far as to be damned (such as if he only had venial sins, or if he imperfectly repented for his mortal sins, or his mortal sins had mitigating circumstances) then before he is allowed into Heaven he might first go to purgatory to be purified first.

When the living pray for the souls of the dead, it decreases their time in purgatory and allows them to become purified and go to Heaven faster.

Imperfect contrition does not forgive mortal sins so if someone died before getting to Confession they would go to Hell because they would have died in a state of mortal sin.

CCC 1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

 

[BornInMarch]

Imperfect contrition does not forgive mortal sins so if someone died before getting to Confession they would go to Hell because they would have died in a state of mortal sin.

I should clarify that when I said “imperfectly repented” I didn’t necessarily mean “repented with imperfect contrition”. I was referring instead to situations like someone who dies with perfect contrition in his heart but who couldn’t get to confession, or who was absolved in confession but didn’t preform the assigned penance afterwards.

 

[BornInMarch]

Anyway, I looked up that whole page in the catechism for greater context.
Catechism:

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

This clarified the difference between perfect and imperfect contrition, and indeed fear of punishment isn’t enough to constitute a true change of heart because it’s ultimately self-interested. But I’m not sure what “consideration of sin’s ugliness” means. Some more research yielded this entry from the website Catholic culture.

Also called attrition, imperfect contrition is sufficient for remission of sin in the sacrament of penance. It is also adequate for a valid and fruitful reception of baptism by one who has reached the age of reason. And if a person is unable to go to confession, imperfect contrition remits even grave sin through the sacrament of anointing of the sick.

You can see how this would be confusing.

Another source by Catholic Answers encyclopedia gives a long explanation of Contrition, but doesn’t even mention imperfect contrition. It’s unclear; it says a perfect contrition is based on a love of God but then points out that it’s not defined what “love of God” means in this context.

When one furthermore asks what must be the formal motive in perfect love, there seems to be no real unanimity among the doctors. Some say that where there is perfect love God is loved for His great goodness alone; others, basing their contention on Scripture, think that the love of gratitude is quite sufficient, because God’s benevolence and love towards men are intimately united, nay, inseparable from His Divine perfections.

Altogether I’m more confused than when I began.

 

[Nick3]

I would’nt bother looking for any clarity Born in March. I nowadays think a fifth ‘mark’ of the Church is it’s vagueness. Everything previously settled has been ‘nuanced’ into meaninglessness by the progressivists.