Post Vatican II Catholics & Converts

[MiserereMei25]

I agree with you. But it is not okay to diminish the importance of the structure, gold, icons, vestments, candles and all that make the liturgy beautiful externally. Those things also help us raise our hearts and minds to God. For those of us who don’t have bombed out churches those things have a level of importance. Not critically high importance, but should still be recognized as important.

Saint Francis of Assisi as poor as he was celebrated mass in a cave once. Wonderful!

But he also had high respect for the ornatness of churches. That was the only time he was attracted to glamorous things was in the churches dedicated to Our Lord.

Also many saints attribute the external beauty of our faith as a n important role in their conversion.

You gave me some very good opionions to think about. I hope you can take my opinions as well and think about them.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Nothing has been diminished. However , we must learn how to raise our hearts and minds to God without external trappings. We must learn to fast from external beauty and trappings so we can find God in the depths of despair and tribulation.

A Christian thrown in jail and going to martyrdom would have nothing but fear and despair if he or she could not focus on God rather then candles.

Wealthy countries must not lose that ability. And it’s something the Church is criticised for over the ages.

Many Saints died in abject poverty, in pain and suffering, in conditions I would be charged for if I left my children in.

It is in the depths of despair and tribulation that we find God. Where many are transformed to Christians.

 

[MiserereMei25]

Never mind. Nothing of what I said has been taken into considerarion.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Sure it was all taken into consideration. I gave my POV, based on experience, pre vat 11 , during vat 11, post vat 11, Mass in the outback, Mass in cathedrals, mass in new churches, Mass in homes, Mass in extremely poverty stricken environments.

Sometimes there is too much choice, our focus is taken off what it is we are there for, and onto the choices.
There can’t be St Peters Basilicas on every street corner. We must use what God has put in our path.

 

[vsedriver]

tradition ‘small t’ isn’t the same as Tradition ‘capital T’. Churches didn’t begin with communion rails and therefore communion rails are not necessary to the Mass. Basic liturgical reverence hinges on communion on the tongue? But that denies the centuries when communion was given in the hand so that too is not necessary to the Mass. People didn’t leave the church over communion rails and communion in the hand. People left the church because they couldn’t find Jesus in the church.

 

[vsedriver]

Never mind. Nothing of what I said has been taken into considerarion

it’s ok to want beautiful things in the church… art, music, vestments etc. But we should not put those things before what is really the focus of the church, Christ. Too many who proclaim that without this type of music, that type of architecture, this language are missing the point of what really makes the Mass, the Mass.

My church is neo-Gothic. Yes, they tried modernizing it in the 70s. It sucked. We remodeled 6 years ago. With a liturgical architect overseeing the restoration. The church is beautiful. It’s beautiful because the style is now cohesive with the building design.

But guess what? I also enjoy a mid century modern design. My preference is for the Neo Gothic but for 5 years I lived in a parish that had a modern building. The art was just as beautiful because it fit the architecture. If you can’t see Christ in the beauty of the OF of the Mass then I would say you can’t see Christ in the TLM either. Because you aren’t seeing Christ only the trappings of ritual.

The very act of saying that communion in the hand is less reverential than communion on the tongue is an example of not focusing on Christ but on ritual.