Poster "stunned" by Mary's Immaculate Conception

[mercygate]

I’m afraid both “some Protestants” and you are showing more cultural snobbery than any real understanding of Marian devotions in which statues are dressed and people crawl on their knees at shrines. Protestantism is very much the invention of cold men from cold climates who do not show affection the way warm peoples from warm climates do. If this sort of thing isn’t for you, that’s fine, but let’s not condemn others for doing what we do not understand because we aren’t a part of a culture in which these things are considered quite right and proper.

You and Cardinal Newman. The breakthrough for him came when he began to distinguish between “doctrine” and “devotion.” He allowed as how some Mediterranean forms of devotion to Our Lady lacked English restraint but that they did not in any way usurp the position of doctrine.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I’m afraid both “some Protestants” and you are showing more cultural snobbery than any real understanding of Marian devotions in which statues are dressed and people crawl on their knees at shrines. Protestantism is very much the invention of cold men from cold climates who do not show affection the way warm peoples from warm climates do. If this sort of thing isn’t for you, that’s fine, but let’s not condemn others for doing what we do not understand because we aren’t a part of a culture in which these things are considered quite right and proper.

Please remember these are not my words but the words of an Eastern Orthodox Church member. I do believe I was giving his entire introduction quote. I think he used the screen nme fundiefighter. I don’t know if he has returned to this forum or not.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Hi, How do you explain those crazy charismatic protestants that are full of warm emotions:thumbsup:

The apparent warmness is just a facade of emotionalism.

The charism vaporizes as soon as you address the person about Catholc doctrine…been there done that…from both sides of the fence…charism is about being happy clappy…fear of God has been diminished…awe and respect for God has diminished…

Conduct yourselves in your local church in the same manner as you would if you were instantly teleported to the base of Throne of God…would one look up at God and be happy clappy or would one fall prostrate in fear and awe?

Conduct yourself in the church as if you were directly in front of God…

 

[rr1213]

Conduct yourselves in your local church in the same manner as you would if you were instantly teleported to the base of Throne of God…would one look up at God and be happy clappy or would one fall prostrate in fear and awe?

I imagine that there is much of both, fear and awe that then transforms into joy and celebration.

 

[seek]

I’m kind of reminded of that bumper sticker.

      ** NO**  Mary     **NO** Jesus


      ** KNOW** Mary   **KNOW** Jesus

 

[JoeyWarren]

I’m kind of reminded of that bumper sticker.

      ** NO**  Mary     **NO** Jesus


      ** KNOW** Mary   **KNOW** Jesus

eh? which post reminds you of that.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The apparent warmness is just a facade of emotionalism.

The charism vaporizes as soon as you address the person about Catholc doctrine…been there done that…from both sides of the fence…charism is about being happy clappy…fear of God has been diminished…awe and respect for God has diminished…

Conduct yourselves in your local church in the same manner as you would if you were instantly teleported to the base of Throne of God…would one look up at God and be happy clappy or would one fall prostrate in fear and awe?

Conduct yourself in the church as if you were directly in front of God…

Hi,
So are you saying that someone who shows emotion for their love and awe of God is a phony? I hope Im misunderstanding you Are you saying that in order for someone to TRULY have love and fear of God they have to worhip in a solemn manner? There have been verses sighted before on another thread about how people sang and danced before the Lord. There are also verses that sight being quiet and still and reverent beofre the Lord. So I dont see anything wrong with either side of the coin since they are both biblical.

 

[MrS]

Hi,
So are you saying that someone who shows emotion for their love and awe of God is a phony? I hope Im misunderstanding you Are you saying that in order for someone to TRULY have love and fear of God they have to worhip in a solemn manner? There have been verses sighted before on another thread about how people sang and danced before the Lord. There are also verses that sight being quiet and still and reverent beofre the Lord. So I dont see anything wrong with either side of the coin since they are both biblical.

Sure… David danced and sang before the ARK

Moses, on the other hand was in awe before the burning bush

and Peter James and John were servants at the Transfiguration.

I love how Thomas reacted when he realized he stood before the Risen Lord.

He could only utter the eternal truth “My Lord and my God”

However, if you were Catholic I would only say, you worship God in your way, I will try to worship Him in His.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

However, if you were Catholic I would only say, you worship God in your way, I will try to worship Him in His.

Hi, Im sorry Im not getting what your talking about The last statement I dont get. Lost in Translation

 

[rr1213]

ALLFORHIM:
Hi, Im sorry Im not getting what your talking about The last statement I dont get. Lost in Translation

He’s being sarcastic. I forget exactly who he is quoting, but the thrust is that he worships God in the way that God wants him to worship while you worship God in your own way which, presumably, is a way not acceptable to God.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi, Im sorry Im not getting what your talking about The last statement I dont get. Lost in Translation

He’s being sarcastic. I forget exactly who he is quoting, but the thrust is that he worships God in the way that God wants him to worship while you worship God in your own way which, presumably, is a way not acceptable to God.

Hi,

OHHH ok. Well to him then. LOL

 

[MrS]

Hi, Im sorry Im not getting what your talking about The last statement I dont get. Lost in Translation

He’s being sarcastic. I forget exactly who he is quoting, but the thrust is that he worships God in the way that God wants him to worship while you worship God in your own way which, presumably, is a way not acceptable to God.

your misunderstanding was close, but nosmileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_6_2.gif

However, if you were Catholic I would only say, you worship God in your way, I will try to worship Him in His.

I am not aware of any non-Catholic service that follows any format similar to what Jesus did, or similar to what He desired, or similar to what the early Church practiced.

.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I

am not aware of any non-Catholic service that follows any format similar to what Jesus did, or similar to what He desired, or similar to what the early Church practiced.

Thank you for the explanation. Of course I disagree with your comment here, but you already knew that.

.

 

[MrS]

I Thank you for the explanation. Of course I disagree with your comment here, but you already knew that.

please share why you might disagree…

[1] you know of faith communities who DO follow a scriptural service (and I know you won’t suggest the altar call, profession of faith and sinner’s prayer, right?)

[2] you perhaps do not feel that a scriptural based worship like the Mass is even a requirement for Christians

[3] ??

.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

MrS:
please share why you might disagree…

[1] you know of faith communities who DO follow a scriptural service (and I know you won’t suggest the altar call, profession of faith and sinner’s prayer, right?)

[2] you perhaps do not feel that a scriptural based worship like the Mass is even a requirement for Christians

[3] ??

.

Hi,

I believe my non-catholic church follows what Christ would want or what the early churches did.

Yes you are correct about #1 I dont necessarily believe in altar calls or sinner prayers.

I do believe Scripture should always be taught in service yes.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. Were you saying that the CC is the only church that has a service just like the olden days in your opinion of course. I guess that is what I got out of your message. Im sorry if I misunderstood.

Ok Im going to go watch the New Orlean SAINTS win I hope:thumbsup: I dont like the Eagles My team already lost in the playoffs–Cowboys

Night for now

 

[MrS]

Hi,

[1] I believe my non-catholic church follows what Christ would want or what the early churches did.

[2] Yes you are correct about #1 I dont necessarily believe in altar calls or sinner prayers.

[3] I do believe Scripture should always be taught in service yes.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. Were you saying that the CC is the only church that has a service just like the olden days in your opinion of course. I guess that is what I got out of your message. Im sorry if I misunderstood.

Ok Im going to go watch the New Orlean SAINTS win I hope:thumbsup: I dont like the Eagles My team already lost in the playoffs–Cowboys

Night for now

[1] While there were many cities and places where the early Christians gathered (we can call them churches insofar as it refers to the same Church growing throughout the world), they all had the same theology as handed on orally from the Apostles… no scriptural New Testament. They all celebrated the Mass and even St. Paul admonished those who did not accept the Eucharist as the Real Presence.

So, what is it that your church does that you either KNOW that the early Church did… or that you believe Christ would want??

[2] Good… we both know that they are not scriptural instructions at all.

[3] I too believe that Scripture (OT and NT) is very useful for instruction. Where we may part company is on these points:
a] the interpretation of much of Scripture is difficult, it is not to be left to individual interpretation,
b] and only Peter was given the authority to “Feed My sheep, Tend My flock, Feed My sheep”
c] there are many good non-Catholic preachers/teachers who love the Lord and study scripture. But they cannot speak with the authority of Peter.

In general, there have been some minor changes in the celebration of the Mass…

But the Liturgy of the Word, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist (the two “halves” of the whole Mass) are 2000 years old.

And no other faith community offers as much Scripture as the daily Catholic Mass.

Out of curiosity, you might (when time permits) look at a sight that offers the daily Mass readings. Perhaps the home page of www.ewtn.com would be easiest. You could see how the daily readings are selected … OT, Psalm, NT readings are choosen specifically because they support each other.

GO Saints… (our brothers and sisters who have gone before us and enjoy the Beatific Vision)

and

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_1_330.gif

.

%between%

 

[ALLFORHIM]

While there were many cities and places where the early Christians gathered (we can call them churches insofar as it refers to the same Church growing throughout the world), they all had the same theology as handed on orally from the Apostles…

Hi, THEY WON !!! The Saints that is. On the above point I agree.

no scriptural New Testament

. This I would have to disagree because the NT letters from Paul were being circulated. They just werent being circulated as a formal bible yet. They were letters and the OT was still being read. Although you mentioned NT only–sorry.

They all celebrated the Mass and even St. Paul admonished those who did not accept the Eucharist as the Real Presence.

I cant make a comment on this because Im not sure. I would have to read Acts. Although I doubt they celebrated the Mas the way it is today with all the formalities that are involved.

So, what is it that your church does that you either KNOW that the early Church did… or that you believe Christ would want??

Besides communion and baptism, when my minister gives a sermon, he not only gives us a ton of scripture he takes that scripture and teaches us how to apply it in our daily lives. Im sure you will agree that what good is hearing The Word if you dont apply it or live it out. Christ wants us to live out what is written in Scripture. I guess it goes along with walk the talk.

[2] Good… we both know that they are not scriptural instructions at all.

I think people could do those things and mean it but there is so much more too it then that.

[3] I too believe that Scripture (OT and NT) is very useful for instruction. Where we may part company is on these points:
a] the interpretation of much of Scripture is difficult, it is not to be left to individual interpretation,

Well, I do ask my ministers,who have studied the bible extensively, for help when I get stuck. When I read something in the bible that I think I understand but not quite sure, I do turn to my minister and run it by him. He either says Im right or corrects me. Catholics do the same thing. When you study the bible and you cant quite get it you go to, I dont know, a priest or the catechism. You get my point.

b] and only Peter was given the authority to “Feed My sheep, Tend My flock, Feed My sheep”

Agree to disagree on that one.

c] there are many good non-Catholic preachers/teachers who love the Lord and study scripture. But they cannot speak with the authority of Peter.

Im not sure what to say to that one either. I think all of the Apostles were given equal authority. I also believe their primary job was to go out and preach the Good News and make disciples out of all nations. I think that is what is still going on today. That includes you and me. We just go to different churches.

In general, there have been some minor changes in the celebration of the Mass…

But the Liturgy of the Word, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist (the two “halves” of the whole Mass) are 2000 years old.

I will have to take your word on that one.

And no other faith community offers as much Scripture as the daily Catholic Mass.

I think that may be a bit too generalized of a statement. Unless you have been to every other church you just dont really know.

Out of curiosity, you might (when time permits) look at a sight that offers the daily Mass readings. Perhaps the home page of www.ewtn.com would be easiest. You could see how the daily readings are selected … OT, Psalm, NT readings are choosen specifically because they support each other.

You know what I get a catholic magazine that has all of it in there:thumbsup:

I really enjoy chatting with you

P.S. I still cant get those icons

 

[rr1213]

your misunderstanding was close, but no [cigar].

However, if you were Catholic I would only say, you worship God in your way, I will try to worship Him in His.

The statement was sarcastic, how could it be read any other way? It is similar to Winston Churchill’s response to the lady who criticized him for being drunk: “Yes, my dear, I am most assuredly drunk and you are most assuredly ugly. The difference is that tomorrow I will be sober.” Or words to that effect. Both statements are very clever and very cutting.

 

[MrS]

The statement was sarcastic, how could it be read any other way? It is similar to Winston Churchill’s response to the lady who criticized him for being drunk: “Yes, my dear, I am most assuredly drunk and you are most assuredly ugly. The difference is that tomorrow I will be sober.” Or words to that effect. Both statements are very clever and very cutting.

Since you are not even Catholic, why should you care?

Do you think God is happy when man chooses the level of worship (which is often, very often, far less than what that man is capable of).

Do you think that even constant, intense worship is “enough” for the Lord.

I don’t. Yet the Catholic Mass is the highest form of Worship mankind expresses… and the Eucharist is the greatest gift we have from the Lord Himself.

It is no wonder that those outside the Catholic Church (and too often those inside also) are stunned at some of the doctrinal beliefs we profess. Usually the real stun-gun hits when they realize that they, too, are obliged to accept those doctrines… and they must first submit to the Christ-given authority that the Catholic Church safeguards and possesses.

no sarcasm, just fact.

.

 

[rr1213]

Since you are not even Catholic, why should you care?

No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee.

– John Donne