Poverty is the ultimate form of control

[minkymurph]

The problem here in the US, too much arguing and blaming by the politicians, and little actually being done to address the issue. Then when they do come up with something, it’s either the “band-aid” fix from Democrats, or the unsuccessful “trickle-down” economics form the Republicans.

To do:

-Tax cuts are not the answer, we need an entire tax/financial reform.

-Stop throwing food stamps/welfare at people and thinking you just solved their problem

-Getting rid of income & payroll taxes, let more of a person’s paycheck go to them.

-More church based programs. I hear lots of Protestant argue that it is the job of churches to help those in poverty, not the government’s. Yet from every individual I’ve heard make this statement, they do nothing in their personal life to support this. I am not including the Catholic Church, because I know it does a lot of good already.

-Auditing the Federal Reserve has been proposed, and I think this would help at least by holding another part of the government accountable.

Someone after my own heart.

 

[minkymurph]

Quite a few unsupported assertions there.

Reagan’s Earned Income tax credit was a big help to poor working people

So is your position trickle-down policy’s do not need to be tempered with measures that assist the poor and tax cuts are sufficient to achieve that objective?

 

[minkymurph]

Nothing works in and of itself, but tax xuts do much more than you think.

One major battle cry for the left is “in 1940 you could live on a single min wage job”

Okay lets see a few areas in the country maybe not but then again… probably not then either!!!

So were I live, lets try and see what 1940 looks like

First a family of 4 was a family of FOUR not five splinter exes with random kids floating around
ONE TV
ONE Car
ONE house phone
NO paid TV
Library has free internet
Livable but not “dream” house
Oh and even up to like the 1970s most people who ripped a piece of clothing??? Momma sewed that thing!!

When is the last time you saw patches outside of a fashion statement?? LOL

People are really so poor now they cant live like 1940?? Or just greedy??

At 8.25 min wage here if you started out of HS you in just about every job get some kind of raises even McDs!!

So if you worked there for 2 or 3 yrs you are prob more around $9/hr.

Now $8 thru $9 an hour for like 3 yrs saving up to leave home, cheap house like $50K with 5k down, one car one tv, one house phone etc etc… maybe a year later popping out a kid etc etc… yeah this is all possible.

Howevwr how it goes is job hop 10 times keep restarting at min wage. Have at least one random baby momma, court costs + child support, get new wife and say "Government makes me too poor!!

Pfft I have met poor people.

I have been poor.

The onky ones who stay poor blame the gov instead of doing stuff.

So like Theo is your position tax cuts are sufficient in reducing the effects of poverty?

 

[minkymurph]

It might seem controversial, but many people that I’ve encountered through the years actually “choose” to live in poverty. They fully understand the individual causes of their poverty "lack of education, poor financial choices,drugs,alcohol, and sexual immorality, yet most stubbornly refuse to do anything to alleviate their situation.

I like to think of poverty as a “Hydra” with many heads. Unfortunately, there is political power for politicians that feed the Hydra.

It’s not controversial it’s a fact, but one that does not apply to everyone who is poor - though I sure you did not intend to imply this.

If someone chooses to live in poverty and not avail of assistance and support society offers them in terms of helping themselves, that is their prerogative but they can’t complain. They can only complain if no assistance and support is available, could readily be made available, and they would avail of it had they the opportunity.

 

[minkymurph]

First off, the ultimate form of social control is the mass media. It shapes our attitudes, values, and beliefs.

Giving poor people money is often necessary to ease the situation of those truly in need, and we are commanded throughout the bible that we need to care for the poor, but simply giving them money is not the cure. I now believe that the problem of poverty can be eliminated through capitalism, something that I did not believe just a few years back. I do not want to sound stereotypical, but the attitudes, values, and beliefs of those living in poverty need to change, as do the attitudes, values, and beliefs of the rest of society. This will happen, I believe, through the mass media and religion. Spirituality is necessary and is going to transform the economic system by drastically changing people’s wants and motivation in such a way that there will be harmony between people of all classes.

Absolutely - simply giving the poor money is not a cure. Spirituality transforming society is a nice idea but with respect and unrealistic one, and what do we do in the meantime?

 

[minkymurph]

There are many causes to poverty so why go around thinking that there is only one solution?

There is no magic silver bullet.

True - but this does not justify inactivity and closes our eyes to what can realistically be achieved.

 

[Rosebud77]

Nothing works in and of itself, but tax xuts do much more than you think.

One major battle cry for the left is “in 1940 you could live on a single min wage job”

Okay lets see a few areas in the country maybe not but then again… probably not then either!!!

So were I live, lets try and see what 1940 looks like

First a family of 4 was a family of FOUR not five splinter exes with random kids floating around
ONE TV
ONE Car
ONE house phone
NO paid TV
Library has free internet
Livable but not “dream” house
Oh and even up to like the 1970s most people who ripped a piece of clothing??? Momma sewed that thing!!

When is the last time you saw patches outside of a fashion statement?? LOL

People are really so poor now they cant live like 1940?? Or just greedy??

At 8.25 min wage here if you started out of HS you in just about every job get some kind of raises even McDs!!

So if you worked there for 2 or 3 yrs you are prob more around $9/hr.

Now $8 thru $9 an hour for like 3 yrs saving up to leave home, cheap house like $50K with 5k down, one car one tv, one house phone etc etc… maybe a year later popping out a kid etc etc… yeah this is all possible.

Howevwr how it goes is job hop 10 times keep restarting at min wage. Have at least one random baby momma, court costs + child support, get new wife and say "Government makes me too poor!!

Pfft I have met poor people.

I have been poor.

The onky ones who stay poor blame the gov instead of doing stuff.

Meant to bold to the end of your 1940 list… Did you have internet and TV in 1940 there in the US? I was born in 1943 and we had no TV until late 40s and then only a few, and internet???
and we were amid world war 2. ( I was in the UK then)
We had a car only after the war as my father was a teacher and had privileges.

My mother like most made almost all our clothes and food was severely rationed weil into the 50s.

Being poor means not enough food, not enough heating… The so called poverty line here i Ireland is upper middle class stuff.

BY their standards I am dirt poor… NOT! I do have a small car but disability means I get help with the costs of that. N TV bu choice, A chromebook that was given and I piggy back an IP phone with a cheap flat rate through the modem. The computer is my library, my pattern book, my social life as I am rarely able to go out. Cost is all in less than E15 a week.

Yes poverty is an attitude of mind. People here grouse and grumble then you realise they are are drinking and smoking

I have enough to live and some to give away to the truly poor…I control that myself and make my own choices.

 

[LethalMouse]

So like Theo is your position tax cuts are sufficient in reducing the effects of poverty?

No, that is an oversimplified excerpt of your opposition’s views on economy.

I submit that Catholics by percentage live more than most other demographics in certain US cities. Those cities have been voted in line with the 60% of catholics ideas which are represented by the OP.

This cities have the worst moral conditions and financial conditions for their poor etc.

They have the least freedoms for individuals from what you can do on your property, to highest taxes, to licensing and recieving permission for everything you might want to do.

Your ways are already proven terrible.

Each state led by the mentality of the OP is in the most debt, almost near bankruptcy and leading the ways in all moral decadent behavior.
Yet you dont see the error… LOL

 

[Hatikvah]

How many people blamed the free market and captialism already? Socialism has been tried and it failed every single time (the most recent examples being Venezuela now and Vietnam as we speak).

 

[Jake_Parker]

Someone after my own heart.

I see you’re in Ireland. I was going to ask if you were a Rand Paul supporter.
Not sure how much you follow American politics, though. haha

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

Please remember that discussions of particular political parties or figures are not allowed in the Social Justice forum. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I want to mark this and come back later.

However, one fellow I know grew up in Harlem. His mom pushed him to finish high school. After that he joined the Air Force and learned that the military has phenomenal educational opportunities. So he availed himself of ALL of them, and got his degree.

After he got out of the Air Force, he was able to get a job on Wall Street and eventually opened up his own firm.

His major irritation is that … he asks: “how many of my Air Force buddies took advantage of all that free education?”.

Answer: ZERO.

More than anything else, he is annoyed that way too many poor people decline to get a good education, even when it is free.

 

[David_Fortin]

True - but this does not justify inactivity and closes our eyes to what can realistically be achieved.

It’s the conservative model, to improve the economic conditions of the country as a whole. When that occurs jobs become more available,and more people working, means less poverty.

I believe that our own government intentionally penalizes corporations, and small businesses, through onerous taxation, and burdensome regulation. This destroys a company’s incentive to hire new workers,or expand their businesses. By cutting the corporate tax rates, and allowing companies to repatriate their capitol “without the massive penalty they currently incur”, those companies would be able to expand, and hire more workers. Unfortunately, our government democrat, and republican, have gone full tilt for socialism.

A liberal looks at a poor person and thinks “What can I do for him as an individual?”. Whereas a Conservative looks at that same person and thinks "How can I fix the economy this person lives in,so he can get himself out?. Neither is necessarily right, wrong, however liberals seem more eager to use the force of government.

 

[David_Fortin]

Poverty isn’t the ultimate form of control, however as the democrats,and corrupted republicans, have repeatedly shown us, is that tremendous political power, and personal enrichment, can come from manipulating the impoverished.

 

[minkymurph]

No, that is an oversimplified excerpt of your opposition’s views on economy.

I submit that Catholics by percentage live more than most other demographics in certain US cities. Those cities have been voted in line with the 60% of catholics ideas which are represented by the OP.

This cities have the worst moral conditions and financial conditions for their poor etc.

They have the least freedoms for individuals from what you can do on your property, to highest taxes, to licensing and recieving permission for everything you might want to do.

Your ways are already proven terrible.

Each state led by the mentality of the OP is in the most debt, almost near bankruptcy and leading the ways in all moral decadent behavior.
Yet you dont see the error… LOL

You’ve totally lost me.

Can you clarify -

What you mean by ‘my opposition’s view of the economy?’

What you mean by ‘my ways’ as I’m not aware of advocating any particularly way in the original post, and the mentality of the OP given I am the OP?

 

[minkymurph]

I see you’re in Ireland. I was going to ask if you were a Rand Paul supporter.
Not sure how much you follow American politics, though. haha

Who?

Does that answer your question?

 

[minkymurph]

Poverty isn’t the ultimate form of control, however as the democrats,and corrupted republicans, have repeatedly shown us, is that tremendous political power, and personal enrichment, can come from manipulating the impoverished.

I see where you are coming from. Perhaps what I should have said was direct or indirect forced poverty for selfish reasons?

 

[Ridgerunner]

In my part of the country, there are more jobs than people to take them. And they’re not all “bottom tier” jobs, either.

I do know some people who live in poverty, but virtually all of them fit into one or two categories; the truly disabled and the drug-addicted who will not do anything about it.

As to the former, I know of no good resolution other than governmental and private aid at some level. By definition, they can’t help themselves, and the Church holds that we have an obligation toward them.

As to the latter, I’m not sure anything can help.

If you eliminated those two categories, almost nobody lives in poverty, at least around here.

 

[LethalMouse]

You’ve totally lost me.

Can you clarify -

What you mean by ‘my opposition’s view of the economy?’

What you mean by ‘my ways’ as I’m not aware of advocating any particularly way in the original post, and the mentality of the OP given I am the OP?

You posted an idea that you think won’t work. But your posted idea is a cutout of a general ideology oversimplified.

Typically when someone thinks that “tax cuts” are the entirety of a theory it is via propaganda and the same people by into much more.

Truth is there are of course bad, evil, or incompetent and just plain wrong people on all sides so perhaps there is like one guy who wants to do nothing but cut a couple taxes lol.

And your tone though maybe misundwrstood seemed to be of someone who believes “cut a couple taxes for rich people” is the entirety of the idea.

And given the % of carholics being in the 60%s it is a safe bet that although held back by the church teaching on a few issues, more catholics than not agree with the politics of those who say abortion is a woman’s rights.

The propaganda trick is that war on women might be taken less so by a catholic,

The 60% still believe the rest war on poor people, war on minorities etc.

They believe that anything short of soemthing Stalin esque is mean to anyone who is not Bill Gates.

And my reference to cities with high catholic population, noting they are the most Stalin like cities and while chasing the hammer and cycl (idk how to spell it right now lol) dream they have all voted for policies that breed the best places for abortions and leading gay marriage cities.

Places where a parent can not stop their kid from getting an abortion or having a sex change.

These are the areas, cities and states with a disproportionate amout of carholics.

But I see ebough on here to know how many think the other side is out to herd poor people and women and minorities into slave camps… lol tis all foolish.

But apologies if you are not in the 60% good sir, just seemed your tone.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Beware the Useful Idiots

Obama was influenced by the writings and philosophies Saul Alinsky, author of the book, “Rules for Radicals,” and later by Frank Marshall Davis, with similar philosophies.

Barak Obama followed the philosophies of these ‘role models’ throughout his days as a Community Organizer for ACORN, using tactics that appeared to some as ‘shaking down’ businesses in exchange for not branding them ‘hate groups.’

And apparently Obama is still following those radical rules today.

Recall that Hillary Clinton did her college thesis on his writings and Barack Hussein Obama writes about him in his books.

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state.

The first is the most important.

1. Healthcare — Control healthcare and you control the people

1. Poverty — Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

1. Debt — Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

1. Gun Control — Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

1. Welfare — Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

1. Education — Take control of what people read and listen to — take control of what children learn in school.

1. Religion — Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.

1. Class Warfare — Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Now, think …

. snopes.com/politics/quotes/alinsky.asp