Poverty takes many forms

[reen12]

quote: ncjohn

What those using such overbearing approaches refuse to acknowledge is that they are
indeed acting without love when they address someone in a way they would not allow themselves, or someone they love, to be addressed.

This made me think of something that C.S.Lewis said, John.
It has remained with me for decades.
A senior “devil,” writing letters of instruction, to his young nephew devil,
in terms of how to tempt human beings. The Screwtape Letters.]

Paraphrased:
The thing that is curious, about human beings, nephew,
is that they will say something - deliberatly - to give offense,
yet feel great umbrage - when offense is taken.

---

This kind of thing can be very confusing - when the one who
gives deliberate offense, then feels offended, in turn - when
the one, who was offended, names this offensive speech
for what it is.

reen

 

[reen12]

quote: ncjohn

…many of these things are actually said to intentionally offend. I have heard many doing so then justifying themselves, with no remorse or qualms whatsoever, by saying that one must speak in whatever way is necessary to convince one who is “clearly wrong” of the errors of their ways. That to NOT do so is unloving as it could allow them to experience eternal damnation.

Which reminds me of the saying:

“You can always tell those who are being done good to,
by the haggard expressions on their faces.” http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif

reens http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

 

[distracted]

.

Be consoled by the fact that Our Lord recieved so much abuse and returned not a word. His poverty swalloed up the emnity thrown at Him.

I understand you saying this BUT…

I don’t feel it is good to just accept that kind of abuse and “go on.”. What will usually havppen, human nature being what it is, the priest will just think it was no big deal (because penitent didn’t seem to think so) and may be more abusive to the next person…

Maybe i am wrong but i feel that when people are not “called on their ‘stuff’”… it is like saying that that kind of behavior is not wrong… and if i can be totally straight with you, i don’t feel you should look to yourself in a situation like that, trying to see what you may have done wrong… There is nothing more to the story, to speak of… Some priests are just… not very loving or caring… It has absolutel,y nothing to do with the penitent…

Why do people always make excuses for priests? As if they can sin and it is no big deal… we should just 'take it"… To me, it is evn worse when it is a priest doing this…

 

[reen12]

quote: reen12

Which reminds me of the saying:

“You can always tell those who are being done good to,
by the haggard expressions on their faces.”

“Better haggard, now, than hell, later!”

With one singing in this “tone” - how will I know the difference?
Seems pretty hellish to me, now - right in the present -
whenever I am spoken to with a lack of charity, about a God of love.
Disjoint sets. A lack of consonance with the message - and with the Messenger.

“Go tell John that the lame walk, and the blind see,
and the poor have the good news preached to them.”

And one can be poor in many ways.

“What does He mean? ‘Good news.’”
“Is He saying something really good, that will help me?” http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

Those who are already in some form of poverty,
have Jesus taken from them, too - when those who
have the audacity to speak in His name, act not like Him,
driving wounded sheep away.

“My sheep know My voice.”

And it sure in heaven doesn’t sound like some of the voices
purporting to speak in His name.

That’s why it’s so quiet in His pasture, where wounded sheep go.
One can hear the sound of lambs drinking from still waters.
In His peace - and in the quiet, He gives His sheep and lambs repose.
He restores them.

Far beyond the reach of those voices which speak not with love and concern and respect.
To actually see a wounded sheep - not counting the notches on one’s crucifix,
hoping to add still another. “He’s saved!” That’s not what a crucifix is.

And when others are spoken to, with a profound lack of charity,
about He Who is love - that’s one of the reasons that He accepted crucifixion,
knowing that some, down the centuries, would misuse His name.
Would take His name in vain.



“My sheep know My voice.”

reen12

 

[reen12]

I’ve been thinking about how the word “justice” is employed, in the Hebrew Scriptures.
And how justice and poverty can, sometimes, be disjoint sets.

Did you ever have the experience of learning something, 30 or 40 years ago, and then the
meaning astounds you, 40 years later?

In the psalms, “justice” could refer to a person who didn’t have much, who longed to
have their case heard by a ‘judge,’ but couldn’t.
So the word justice meant several things, but one of those things meant
‘Hear my cry, O Lord. Let my case be heard.’

How many, across the centuries, “used” the law - to take even what little another had?
How many were blocked from protecting their rights against a jackal?
“The Lord hears the cry of the poor.” Psalm 9

‘Judge me, O Lord…’ didn’t necessarily indicate ‘self-righteousness.’ It was what any human being would cry, when no one would listen to them, because they were powerless.
O how they yearned for a judge - who would hear them.
And what of today? How many are deprived of justice, because they are poor?
What of them?

It will only be in His Kingdom - that His justice will reign, forever.

It is in this context, that I was riveted by the words of Amos the prophet,
as he spoke the words of the living God -



reen12

 

[distracted]

And what of today? How many are deprived of justice, because they are poor?
What of them?

Could i ever tell you a story on that theme!!! But i kinda don’t want to talk about it… very painful… and unbelievable… I don’t think many people here would believe it… I have been attacked so often here that i have grown cautious about speaking on certain things… don’t feel like being accused of lying, etc…

Suffice it to say that i have seen how true that is… how poor people are deprived of justice.

When OJ simpson “won”… someone said, in comment:

“And justice for all… who can afford it…”

 

[reen12]

Been thinking about “invalidation” and serenity.

I have spent my entire adult life, validating others, in their sense of reality.
Nothing, but nothing, drives me loonier, than when someone is trying to pull
a 180 on me - saying , essentially, that what I acknowledge as a given reality,
is not the reality.

I have become a connisieur of invalidating behavior. :coffeeread:
As practiced by some, it is an art form, I’ve noted.

When this happens, the first question that I ask myself is:
[after the first wave of emotional shock passes]
What is it, that another does not wish to acknowledge, in the given situation?
What agenda is on the table of this other?
What “authorities” are invoked, to prop up an invalidating routine?

In short: What does another have to “gain” - by trying to invalidate my sense of the real?
Lots of times, there’s both fear and anxiety driving the other. And even the person
him/herself may not be aware of this fear or anxiety - or only vaguely aware of same.

If I maintain that X is the case, how is the other discommoded, in some way?
How does their world-view need to be adjusted, if I continue to maintain that X is X?
Easier, by far, to attempt to ‘invalidate’ me.

Then there are the “shoulds.” [Often walking, hand in hand, with invalidation.]
You should/shouldn’t have said/done this.
“Oh really? That’s interesting. What do you base this on?”

This rejoinder often flushes out the “assumptions” that the other is making.
What the other is positing as true - or as the ‘reality.’

It is most effective, I find, to simply nod - noncommitally - at some point,
refusing to engage further - and simply go on with the day.
I do appreciate the attitude of practioners of Buddhism, in this regard.

In Eastern thought, to be attached - even to doctrines, disrupts a peaceful being in the world.
Actions, as always, speak much much louder than words.
I admire their sense of serenity. The inner surety that all created things
arise, exist, and pass away. Not to worry. All phenomena,
[including attempts at invalidation,] rise, exist for a time,
and pass away, as the stream of phenomena, that is life, flows on.



Yet one who believes in God, and in the immortality of the soul, might say, with
Julian of Norwich -
“All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.”

And, knowing this, one can recuperate from each and every invalidating encounter -
knowing that He exists, and that He really does have “the whole world in His hands.”

Saying, with Teresa of Avila -

“Let nothing disturb thee
Let nothing dismay thee.
All things pass,
God never changes.”

reen12

 

[reen12]

Been thinking about “invalidation” and serenity.

I have spent my entire adult life, validating others, in their sense of reality.
Nothing, but nothing, drives me loonier, than when someone is trying to pull
a 180 on me - saying , essentially, that what I acknowledge as a given reality,
is not the reality.

I have become a connesieur of invalidating behavior. :coffeeread:

When this happens, the first question that I ask myself is:
[after the first wave of emotional shock passes]

What is it, that another does not wish to acknowledge, in the given situation?
What agenda is on the table of this other?
What “authorities” are invoked, to prop up an invalidating routine?

In short: What does another have to “gain” - by trying to invalidate my sense of the real?
Lots of times, there’s both fear and anxiety driving the other. And even the person
him/herself may not be aware of this fear or anxiety - or only vaguely aware of same.

If I maintain that X is the case, how is the other discommoded, in some way?
How does their world-view need to be adjusted, if I continue to maintain that X is X?
Easier, by far, to attempt to ‘invalidate’ me.

Then there are the “shoulds.” [Often walking, hand in hand, with invalidation.]
You should/shouldn’t have said/done this.
“Oh really? That’s interesting. What do you base this on?”

This rejoinder often flushes out the “assumptions” that the other is making.
What the other is positing as true - or as the ‘reality.’

It is most effective, I find, to simply nod - noncommitedly - refusing to engage further,
and to simply go on with the day.
I do appreciate the attitude of practioners of Buddhism, in this regard.

In Eastern thought, to be ‘attached’ - even to doctrines, disrupts a peaceful being in the world.
Actions, as always, speak much much louder than words.
I admire their sense of serenity. The inner surety that all created things
arise, exist, and pass away. Not to worry. All phenomena,
[including attempts at invalidation,] rise, exist for a time,
and pass away, as the stream of phenomena, that is life,
flows on.



Yet one who believes in God, and in the immortality of the soul, might say, with Julian of Norwich -
“All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.”

And, knowing this, one can recuperate from each and every invalidating encounter -
knowing that He exists, and that He really does have “the whole world in His hands.”

Saying, with Teresa of Avila -

"Let nothing disturb thee
Let nothing dismay thee.
All things pass,
God never changes.

reen12

 

[JReducation]

I understand that poverty takes many forms and I hope that I’m not repeating something that has already been posted, but I do believe there is still merit in detachment from material things.

I have always been in love with St. Francis, Teresa of Avila and Mother Teresa. Their attraction has been their detachement. Not only are they detached from material things, but they are also detached from the honors and prestige that the world offers them.

I love it when I go to work and people call me by my name and not my title.

I do enjoy living with the bare minimum, though I make every effort to provide my children with whatever they need to live, have fun, stay safe and healthy, also with a good education.

I don’t enforce living with the bear essentials on them. But when I became a Franciscan I felt relieved not to have many clothes, not to have moeny in the bank for me, not to have the largest room in the house, not to have more clothes than I need for one week and so forth. It’s really a relief, I think.

I’m struggling now with another achieving another kind of poverty and I hope that those who read this will pray for me. That’s the detachment from spiritual pride.

It’s too easy to feel too good about oneself when you do something right, if you get my meaning. I’m not looking to feel badly, that’s not mentally healthy. I guess I’m trying to find a holy indifference like the saints achieved. You do something good, you give up certain thing, you pray etc, and your acknowledge it, but you move on rather than feel proud of the fact that you got it right this time. Because that almost undoes the whole thing for me. I don’t know if others feel this way.

That’s my area where I have to develop a sense of poverty, detachment from spiritual pride. For me, it has been the biggest cross. I can’t see how it comes so easily for these saints, afterall, they were human too. Maybe it didn’t come so easily and their biographers forget to mention this. I have no idea.

JR

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I think we all without exemption will probably battle with pride of some kind on some level always…St. Francis of Assisi apparently said that pride dies ten minutes after we do. When I am good I battle spiritual pride on ever deepening levels and when I am bad I fight the pride that is horrified, wounded and wants to despair and give up because I am not as good as I thought I was…and all measures inbetween…I was reading tonight from St. Faustina’s diary that Jesus told her between souls and God there is a great abyss that is filled with His Mercy…Blessings and Peace…Barb

 

[ncjohn]

It’s too easy to feel too good about oneself when you do something right, if you get my meaning. I’m not looking to feel badly, that’s not mentally healthy. I guess I’m trying to find a holy indifference like the saints achieved. You do something good, you give up certain thing, you pray etc, and your acknowledge it, but you move on rather than feel proud of the fact that you got it right this time. Because that almost undoes the whole thing for me. I don’t know if others feel this way.

That’s my area where I have to develop a sense of poverty, detachment from spiritual pride. For me, it has been the biggest cross. I can’t see how it comes so easily for these saints, afterall, they were human too. Maybe it didn’t come so easily and their biographers forget to mention this. I have no idea.

JR

Hi JR,

I have often commented on how much authors miss the boat in all these “prettied up” lives of the saints. The ones that make them look like they were born with little halos over their heads and walked around with their hands folded in front of them for their entire lives. I somehow know that nothing could be further from the truth and they struggled just like all the rest of us. That those struggles so seldom get portrayed is most unsettling to me. I think there is a desire to lift up “larger than life” heroes for us to aspire to, as well as a fear that showing a saint’s faults may diminish them in some people’s eyes. I personally though would find great consolation in seeing where and how they struggled like I do and still overcame. It would give me something I could identify with rather than seeing them as impossibly good and then despairing because I can never achieve that picture of perfection that has been falsely presented.

As to the spritual pride issue, I had to chuckle at that one. I can remember seeing a checklist posted a couple years ago–I believe by Barbara Therese–about indicators of humility. I remember going through it, happily checking off items that showed how well I was moving in that direction. And then when I was all done, having to laugh at myself and add one that read “takes great pride in their humility.” CHECK!!

I fully expect that my pride won’t die until well after I do, as Barb noted. I think the best we can hope for is to occasionally catch ourselves at it and have a good chuckle at ourselves, as I’m sure God does.

 

[ncjohn]

I have a question for you…

If a person goes to confession (are you Catholic??)…

Assuming u r… , and the priest is rude & interrupts and only wnts to talk about some subject that has nothing to do with absolution (and is kind of “wordly” to boot)… and then gets irritated and leaves the confessional… w/o giving absolution… apparently because the penitent doesn’t agree (on the worldy issue??)… and the penitent is … well, it is kind of a last straw kind of thing w/ him… and he wnts to just forget about being Catholic… because of this & other incidents of rudeness and coldness (etc) he’s experienced in the Church… well, what do you think of this?

Yes, priests are human, and will certainly have their own “off” days like anyone else. But the thought of a priest walking out of a confession without giving absolution boggles the mind.

I personally think this is one huge reason why so many totally avoid confession, or avoid it to the greatest extent possible. My wife is one who has never had anything but good experiences from it and can walk about with an absolute glow of peace. I however grew up pre-V2 with absolutely horrible experiences of it, with the majority of even my adult experiences being negative–often in the vein you mention–and really have to force myself to go. I have had only one experience in my life of walking out from confession “knowing” the love and mercy of God, though I will find that in many other people and places.

No, I don’t think a priest gets a free walk on that one. But like anything else there are questions of how one approaches it and how effective one can be. For that matter, whether one should address it personally or through an intermediary, as one’s credibility with the priest (like with anyone else) will have a great deal to do with what is “heard” regardless of how it is said.

That any of us should EVER have such an experience at this most intimate of moments, one in which one should be finding great joy in reconciling with God and community–the original intention of the sacrament–is a horrifying thought. That it is clearly more common that any of us would like to think, I find very sad.

In the end, when such things happen with me, I have to simply consider that it is God giving the absolution regardless of the actions of the human priest, and remember that the sacrament is the acknowledgement and celebration of what God has already done in my life. It isn’t always enough, but it’s better for me than walking away feeling bitter and like I have failed even worse.

 

[reen12]

I’ve never forgotten reading the following. I winced, when I read it.

“I can see the pride shining through the holes in your garment.”

The queen of sins is spiritual pride. Using God and the
things of God to inflate ego.

To me, spiritual pride consists, in our day, as:

I am far more sensitive than others.
Whatever the majority thinks of as true,
I think false. God knows, I don’t want to
be one of the average members of the herd.
I’m special. I see deeper realities.
Aren’t I wonderful? http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

It is a Zen story that, to me, best conveys
detachment.

Two monks, an elder and a younger, were walking
down a road that was now all mud, due to heavy rains.
Ahead of them, could be seen a woman who was
looking anxious about crossing the road.

The elder monk quickened his steps, and soon
was standing beside her. “May I help?” he asked.
Her anxiety left her, and the elder monk picked her up
and carried her across the road.

The two monks continued their journey.
They walked in silence for a distance.
Then the younger monk turned to the elder, and said:
“As monks, we are to have nothing to do with women.”
“Yet you carried that woman across the road.”
The elder monk replied:
“I left her back there. Are you still carrying her?”

The concept of wu-wei, in the East, means ‘actionless action.’
An action that is carried out, and then ‘let go.’
Even thinking about what I might do to increase
a sense of detachment, is already a lack of detachment.
When the “I” enters in, detachment is lost in that very thought.

A young student of Zen asked the roshi [Zen master]
how he was to learn Zen. The roshi said:
“Have you fininshed breakfast?”
“Yes.”
“Go wash your bowls.”



It is in "self"less action, actionless action,
that detachment is to be found.
But, then, I’m attached to that view. http://bestsmileys.com/sad/9.gif

reen12

 

[JReducation]

I think we all without exemption will probably battle with pride of some kind on some level always…St. Francis of Assisi apparently said that pride dies ten minutes after we do. When I am good I battle spiritual pride on ever deepening levels and when I am bad I fight the pride that is horrified, wounded and wants to despair and give up because I am not as good as I thought I was…and all measures inbetween…I was reading tonight from St. Faustina’s diary that Jesus told her between souls and God there is a great abyss that is filled with His Mercy…Blessings and Peace…Barb

I like this, I’ll have to remember it.

thanks

JR

 

[distracted]

Yes, priests are human, and will certainly have their own “off” days like anyone else. But the thought of a priest walking out of a confession without giving absolution boggles the mind.

Yeah, really…

I personally think this is one huge reason why so many totally avoid confession, or avoid it to the greatest extent possible.

Hmm… i was wondering why that was. I very rarely see anyone in most of the parishes i attend (i travel a lot sometimes) go to confession… I used to love going to confession, but after some of the experiences i have had… not so into as i used to be…

My wife is one who has never had anything but good experiences from it and can walk about with an absolute glow of peace.

this is rare, i feel… If she were to go to different parishes she would probably run into what you and i have been through… the chances are good that she would… unfortunately…

grew up pre-V2 with absolutely horrible experiences of it, with the majority of even my adult experiences being negative–often in the vein you mention–and really have to force myself to go.

Hmmm… interesting. I would have thought just the opposite… that it would be worse ToDAY…

No, I don’t think a priest gets a free walk on that one.

I am glad someone agrees with me… Like stated elsewhere, i sometimes feel that many Catholics think of priests as “God”… (maybe unconsciously…)…

But like anything else there are questions of how one approaches it and how effective one can be. For that matter, whether one should address it personally or through an intermediary, as one’s credibility with the priest (like with anyone else) will have a great deal to do with what is “heard” regardless of how it is said.

Could you please explain what you mean here… Maybe i am “stressed” & my brain is working properly (wouldnt be the 1st time)… but don’t quite understand…

That any of us should EVER have such an experience at this most intimate of moments, one in which one should be finding great joy in reconciling with God and community–the original intention of the sacrament–is a horrifying thought.

Yes… it is… It is so refreshing to find someone who understands… 2 people i told this story to acted like i should just forget about it and that the priest was having a bad day… Gee… i wonder if some Catholics made that excuse when they heard of the sex scandals…? Oh… the priest molested that poor child… Well, i am sure he was just having a bad day…"

In the end, when such things happen with me, I have to simply consider that it is God giving the absolution regardless of the actions of the human priest,

except that I wasn’t given absolution… so i guess God doesn’t want to forgive me??

Just kidding… but then, maybe not… Many a truth is said in jest… meaning that, unconsciously, people can actually think that kidn of thing (feel that kind of thing)… People do “venerate” priests so when one acts like this… it is not so difficult to see how someone would think that even God is against that person…

God bless… I hope you find a good confessor… I have found one but he lives quite a ways and my car… well, it has a lot of miles on it… I will definitely go if i need to…

 

[distracted]

Yeah, really… Hmm… i was wondering why that was. I very rarely see anyone in most of the parishes i attend (i travel a lot sometimes) go to confession… I used to love going to confession, but after some of the experiences i have had… not so into as i used to be…
this is rare, i feel… If she were to go to different parishes she would probably run into what you and i have been through… the chances are good that she would… unfortunately…

Hmmm… interesting. I would have thought just the opposite… that it would be worse ToDAY…
I am glad someone agrees with me… Like stated elsewhere, i sometimes feel that many Catholics think of priests as “God”… (maybe unconsciously…)…
Could you please explain what you mean here… Maybe i am “stressed” & my brain is working properly (wouldnt be the 1st time)… but don’t quite understand… Yes… it is… It is so refreshing to find someone who understands… 2 people i told this story to acted like i should just forget about it and that the priest was having a bad day… Gee… i wonder if some Catholics made that excuse when they heard of the sex scandals…? Oh… the priest molested that poor child… Well, he i am sure he was just having a bad day…"

except that I wasn’t given absolution… so i guess God doesn’t want to forgive me??

Just kidding… but then, maybe not… Many a truth is said in jest… meaning that, unconsciously, people can actually think that kidn of thing (feel that kind of thing)… People do “venerate” priests so when one acts like this… it is not so difficult to see how someone would think that even God is against that person…

God bless… I hope you find a good confessor… I have found one but he lives quite a ways and my car… well, it has a lot of miles on it… I will definitely go if i need to…

 

[JReducation]

Hi JR,

I have often commented on how much authors miss the boat in all these “prettied up” lives of the saints. The ones that make them look like they were born with little halos over their heads and walked around with their hands folded in front of them for their entire lives. I somehow know that nothing could be further from the truth and they struggled just like all the rest of us. That those struggles so seldom get portrayed is most unsettling to me. I think there is a desire to lift up “larger than life” heroes for us to aspire to, as well as a fear that showing a saint’s faults may diminish them in some people’s eyes. I personally though would find great consolation in seeing where and how they struggled like I do and still overcame. It would give me something I could identify with rather than seeing them as impossibly good and then despairing because I can never achieve that picture of perfection that has been falsely presented.

As to the spritual pride issue, I had to chuckle at that one. I can remember seeing a checklist posted a couple years ago–I believe by Barbara Therese–about indicators of humility. I remember going through it, happily checking off items that showed how well I was moving in that direction. And then when I was all done, having to laugh at myself and add one that read “takes great pride in their humility.” CHECK!!

I fully expect that my pride won’t die until well after I do, as Barb noted. I think the best we can hope for is to occasionally catch ourselves at it and have a good chuckle at ourselves, as I’m sure God does.

I have disocovered the most wonderful book for you. It includes all those struggles that you mention are often forgotten by biographers.

Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light; The Private Writings of the Saint of Calcutta edited by Brian Kolodiejchuk, MC.

I purchased it at Barnes and Noble for $22.00, but it was well worth the investment. I’m still into the second chapter, but so far it’s what the doctor ordered.

JR

 

[JReducation]

Yeah, really… Hmm… i was wondering why that was. I very rarely see anyone in most of the parishes i attend (i travel a lot sometimes) go to confession… I used to love going to confession, but after some of the experiences i have had… not so into as i used to be…
this is rare, i feel… If she were to go to different parishes she would probably run into what you and i have been through… the chances are good that she would… unfortunately…

I think I’ve been blessed. I’ve loved confession all my life. It’s such a rewarding experience for me. I usually walk in and do the same thing. You know, tell the priest when my last confession was, which is usually about every two weeks. Then I begin with “I accuse myself of . . .”

When I’m finished accusing myself I just listen to what the priest says. So far I’ve been to confession in Europe, the USA, the Caribbean and South America and every priest has been most kind, respectful, patient and very holy. I have never ran into a priest with an off day.

I have a good friend who teases me for running priests down in the church parking lot. Sometimes I can’t make it to confession on Saturday and when I get to church on Sunday morning I catch the priest outside of church as he’s greeting people. I ask him if he’ll hear my confession and go right there on the curb. They are always glad to stop what they’re doing and hear my confession. In every case, they have been so gentle and compassionate.

Sometimes I go face to face and other times I use the screen. It depends on the mood and the priest. I like to hang on to the crucifix that’s there while I pay close attention.

My favorite part is the words of absolution “Through the ministry of the Church I absolve you.” This to me is a very emotional moment and I’m a guy. Many people think that only women get emotional about these things, WRONG!!!

I can’t say enough to my Protestant and non Christian friends about confession. What works for me is that I also work very closely with a spiritual director. I see him every three weeks for an hour. So I have plenty of material to pray over and reflect. When I go to confession I don’t waste the priest’s time with a grocery list of things.

My spiritual director helps me put things into context and to use the proper theological and spiritual language. I wonder if the confessors like this, because it’s a language that they speak well. I don’t know, just guessing here.

I do know this, in our parish we have weekly confessions and the line is always an hour long. On holy days it’s usually two hours long. Our friars are very holy men. They take the time to contemplate with the penitent. I think people are looking not only to confess their sins and receive absolution, but also to be drawn into the mystical life. The Capuchin Franciscans are certainly a very mystical group of men.

Confession is also a way of practicing Holy Poverty as St. Francis taught. We detach ourselves from our pride. Our Holy Father always said this, “I am what I am before God, nothing else.”

To me going to confession is seeing me as God sees me, with my holiness and my frailties. What the priest does or what his mood is does’t even impress me, because I’m not really paying attention. I’m only paying attention to his words and the words of absolution. I have had nothing but blessings in that department. One thing that I’ve learned to do is to pray a rosary for the confessor and me, before confession. I am 100% convinced that this helps set the stage. I can’t explain how it does, but it does.

I guess no one knows more about detachment and poverty than our Lady. That’s the only explanation that I can give.

Those are my two cents.

JR

 

[ncjohn]

ncjohn:

But like anything else there are questions of how one approaches it and how effective one can be. For that matter, whether one should address it personally or through an intermediary, as one’s credibility with the priest (like with anyone else) will have a great deal to do with what is “heard” regardless of how it is said.

Could you please explain what you mean here… Maybe i am “stressed” & my brain is working properly (wouldnt be the 1st time)… but don’t quite understand…

What I’m trying to say is that how your concerns are communicated to the priest, and how effective that communication will be, will be determined partly by what is said and how it is said and partly by who actually communicates it. If you know the priest well enough to approach him honestly and calmly, and can communicate how what he did affected you, he may be able to “hear” what you say. On the other hand, if you don’t know him well, or don’t feel you can maintain you “cool” while addressing the subject, it might be better handled by an intermediary who has credibility with him.

Some may feel it’s not important how the priest acts, but I have known many people who were turned away from God and Church by the words and actions of un-Christian people claiming to speak for God. Many will say we shouldn’t be affected by the person, but only by the Truth being spoken, but in reality we are at many different places on our spiritual paths and for a priest to become a stumbling block to one whose faith isnt’ as strong yet is scandalous. Many times they are just in a habitual behavior that they aren’t even aware of, but it hurts people just the same. Especially if you think this is common for him it is important that it be addressed. The mere fact of him walking out without offering absolution is something that really can’t be allowed to happen IMHO, no matter how bad a day he might be having.

… except that I wasn’t given absolution… so i guess God doesn’t want to forgive me??

Just kidding… but then, maybe not… Many a truth is said in jest… meaning that, unconsciously, people can actually think that kidn of thing (feel that kind of thing)… People do “venerate” priests so when one acts like this… it is not so difficult to see how someone would think that even God is against that person.

You sound like you’re secure enough to know that God has forgiven you when you have sincerely confessed your sins. But I agree that there are many whose faith who may not be as strong, or whose scrupulosity might cause them to doubt that their sins have been forgiven. That potential should not be there, yet I hear of priests actually “refusing” absolution, making judgments that someone isn’t repentant enough or that they’ve heard the same sin from them too many times and don’t believe they have an intention or desire to refrain! Scary stuff!

God bless… I hope you find a good confessor… I have found one but he lives quite a ways and my car… well, it has a lot of miles on it… I will definitely go if i need to…

Our Franciscan spiritual director is also my confessor and I could not ask for a better face to be put on God than that holy man. If everyone had a confessor like him people would be lined up outside the church waiting to see him.

 

[ncjohn]

I have disocovered the most wonderful book for you. It includes all those struggles that you mention are often forgotten by biographers.

Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light; The Private Writings of the Saint of Calcutta edited by Brian Kolodiejchuk, MC.

I purchased it at Barnes and Noble for $22.00, but it was well worth the investment. I’m still into the second chapter, but so far it’s what the doctor ordered.

JR

Thanks JR! I’ll see if I can’t track down a copy and put it on the shelf so God can drop it into my hands when He thinks it’s the right time for me to read it. (Yes, that is really how I pick what I’m going to read next!)