Power from God?

[Michael19682]

A met a man while I was working in a psych institute. He had a remarkable ability that might even be called miraculous. He could name the DAY of the week for any given date you gave him. Several times I brought my smart phone to the place where he was temporarily staying and each and every time, no matter the date I gave him, he always knew the day of the week. His eyes would roll a bit to one side or the other, or even up in air, so to speak, but only for a second - or two, at the max, before he would say “Wednesday,” “Tuesday” etc - and never was incorrect. I knew from a Java comp sci class that I took a year earlier that there is a formula called Zeller’s Congruence, by which one may do this calculation; but the formula is suprisingly elaborate and contains what I imagine is too many variables to keep track of mentally in a second or two. I was a good math student in the 80’s when I took the national tests, and was always a very fast computational person. But his ability floored me. When I asked him how he did it, he invariably said it was God telling him the answer. I thought it suspicious, and I believe my skepticism was natural. (I never expressed this doubt because of his ill state).

Comments?

 

[cornbread_r2]

Savant syndrome?

 

[cjmclark]

It sounds like a pretty classic case of savant syndrome, most commonly found in individuals with autism or other psychological disorders. I suppose that inasmuch as any abilities we have are given us by God, it can be seen as a blessing, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a “power.”

 

[Michael19682]

So I guess at some time he must have been familiarized with some mental algorithm for the computation? Ok, that seems obvious

 

[WoundedIcon]

So I guess at some time he must have been familiarized with some mental algorithm for the computation? Ok, that seems obvious

If he’s a savant, he doesn’t need the algorithm because his brain is wired in such a way that it’s just natural to him. Things just tick completely differently up there for some people. That algorithm would probably be geared toward a “neurotypical” person’s thought processes anyways. Such a different wiring usually comes with nasty consequences though. I have a mild case of Asperger’s Syndrome, so I personally have a taste of what that’s like. Not the savantism, but just generally thinking about and processing things differently.

 

[cjmclark]

So I guess at some time he must have been familiarized with some mental algorithm for the computation? Ok, that seems obvious

Not necessarily. If you look at the first table on the website I linked, you’ll see that “calendar calculating” is one of several examples of savant skill. He may be completely unaware of the algorithm’s existence…his brain just works that way.

 

[po18guy]

Actor Ed Begley, Jr. can do the same thing. I watched him do it on the tonight show yearrrrrrrs ago. I have no idea what this actually means.

 

[tonyrey]

… I believe my skepticism was natural.

It is certainly natural because we live in a secular society dominated by scientific explanations of human behaviour which leave no room for anything else.

Every time we exercise our free will we are using supernatural power!

 

[cornbread_r2]

It is certainly natural because we live in a secular society dominated by scientific explanations of human behaviour which leave no room for anything else.

Every time we exercise our free will we are using supernatural power!

I’ll allow that this phenomena could have a supernatural basis. Can you allow for the possibility that the individual in question could not consciously choose not to do the calculations? Considering the speed at which these calculations take place, it certainly seems possible that they might be involuntary.

 

[Michael19682]

I’ll allow that this phenomena could have a supernatural basis. Can you allow for the possibility that the individual in question could not consciously choose not to do the calculations? Considering the speed at which these calculations take place, it certainly seems possible that they might be involuntary.

He only computed when asked and never solicited or bragged on his ability…if that is what you might have thought. But the other points about him being unaware of the existence of the algorithm…that would imply, in my naive view, that people with ESP or other prophetics could have like my friend an unconscious algorithm. I mean, after all, the brain as a physical organ cannot transcend computation, even if this be a transcendence of its true (for to here) transcendent ability. IOWs whatever it can do, barring a miracle, should be limited by computaional laws of some kind, even if these be transcendent in relative terms of our knowlegde of brain laws. Thus, if what you and some others say is correct, we could look to the hypersensitive, the extrasensory, etc, to discover actual algorithms as they work. But how can we ever build to an understanding of them if they are quanta ahead of us? Not that I disagree with what has been proposed - rather, I agree almost totally. Just raising a new issue:

There is no algorithm for proof of God’s Grace. If that is the miracle or the supernatural talked about by others above, then it looks as if we might be on the threshold of proving grace; which, I, personally, always thought was impossible to do, even for self.

 

[Michael19682]

It is certainly natural because we live in a secular society dominated by scientific explanations of human behaviour which leave no room for anything else.

Every time we exercise our free will we are using supernatural power!

Sin too, if we so choose to, is supernatural power exercised. Scary. But i agree with you. In a way, it makes the entire existence of man and all his acts supernatural.

 

[cornbread_r2]

He only computed when asked and never solicited or bragged on his ability…if that is what you might have thought. But the other points about him being unaware of the existence of the algorithm…that would imply, in my naive view, that people with ESP or other prophetics could have like my friend an unconscious algorithm. I mean, after all, the brain as a physical organ cannot transcend computation, even if this be a transcendence of its true (for to here) transcendent ability. IOWs whatever it can do, barring a miracle, should be limited by computaional laws of some kind, even if these be transcendent in relative terms of our knowlegde of brain laws. Thus, if what you and some others say is correct, we could look to the hypersensitive, the extrasensory, etc, to discover actual algorithms as they work. But how can we ever build to an understanding of them if they are quanta ahead of us? Not that I disagree with what has been proposed - rather, I agree almost totally. Just raising a new issue:

There is no algorithm for proof of God’s Grace. If that is the miracle or the supernatural talked about by others above, then it looks as if we might be on the threshold of proving grace; which, I, personally, always thought was impossible to do, even for self.

Since we don’t know if your acquaintance is computing using a formula or simply recalling a table he’s memorized, it was probably pointless of me to speculate. If someone wants to propose unfalsifiable supernatural causes for any and all natural processes then there’s almost certainly no way to argue against that, so I won’t attempt to.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

A few years ago, I used to occasionally tribute to a google group on humour. There was one bloke on there who churned out reams of puns, and at first he annoyed me. But then someone explained he was autistic. His name was Tim somebody, and I still remember that he could turn out dozens of puns a day, based on word play.

So he had this gift of pun making, and some of them were fairly clever.

I know a lady who has Asperger’s Syndrome via a Toastmaster’s Club. It’s obvious she has a disability, and she struggles to do public speaking, but apparently she’s a pianist of concert standard.

So when he says that “God told me”, I think he doesn’t have any other explanation, so that’s what he says. In one sense, it’s true, since we get ALL our gifts from God in the final analysis.

So I wouldn’t worry about it. And I certainly don’t think he’s whizzing through a complicated algortithm. Eventually researchers might found out the reason, but for the time being, these savant abilities exist.

 

[Michael19682]

Since we don’t know if your acquaintance is computing using a formula or simply recalling a table he’s memorized, it was probably pointless of me to speculate. If someone wants to propose unfalsifiable supernatural causes for any and all natural processes then there’s almost certainly no way to argue against that, so I won’t attempt to.

A table, explain? He can quote dates back hundreds of years; but I expect that is not what you are referring to again.

 

[Michael19682]

A few years ago, I used to occasionally tribute to a google group on humour. There was one bloke on there who churned out reams of puns, and at first he annoyed me. But then someone explained he was autistic. His name was Tim somebody, and I still remember that he could turn out dozens of puns a day, based on word play.

So he had this gift of pun making, and some of them were fairly clever.

I know a lady who has Asperger’s Syndrome via a Toastmaster’s Club. It’s obvious she has a disability, and she struggles to do public speaking, but apparently she’s a pianist of concert standard.

So when he says that “God told me”, I think he doesn’t have any other explanation, so that’s what he says. In one sense, it’s true, since we get ALL our gifts from God in the final analysis.

So I wouldn’t worry about it. And I certainly don’t think he’s whizzing through a complicated algortithm. Eventually researchers might found out the reason, but for the time being, these savant abilities exist.

Thank you. I like your take on self attribution of his ability.

 

[cornbread_r2]

A table, explain? He can quote dates back hundreds of years; but I expect that is not what you are referring to again.

It’s possible to construct a table, chart, spread sheet etc. showing which days of the week fall on a particular date hundreds of years in the past as well as into the future. Maybe he’s memorized (or has total recall) of such a table, chart, spread sheet.