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pensmama87
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Doesn’t knowing “you’re getting graded on this” kind of kill the mood, too? 
Frankly I don’t do my best work under such circumstances.
Frankly I don’t do my best work under such circumstances.
Practically speaking, don't we need to "test drive the car before we buy it?"
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TarkanAttila
Guest
Oh, is that a fact? It didn’t used to be such a problem in times past. But, then, marrying for emotional satisfaction and infatuation is a modern concept, not one adopted by any society previous to the romantics and troubadours.
Marriage could be for money. It could be for power. It could be for children. It could be to bind relationships between two clans. It could even be for the sake of leading the other person to God. (At least, so says the Catholic Church.
).But courtly love is a fantasy made up by people who, really, let’s face it, know nothing about marriage. They know about having good feelings and a good time. But marriage lasts too long to feel good forever.
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on_the_hill
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My car is getting old, has a lot of miles on it. Might be time to trade it in for a new model.
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Cat
Guest
I agree with all those who say that newly-wed couples are pretty amateur when it comes to sex, and if commitment was based on this “trying out sex” experiences, most people would back away from the commitment.
But as others have stated on this thread, sex is a skill that improves with time and experience.
I would like to make some comments about the libido issue.
It’s unrealistic to base an assessment of “libido” on pre-marital arousal. During the dating/courtship/engagement phase, libido is incredibly high and desire for each other is almost unbearable, especially for virgins who are also excited about finally “doing it.” Also, most couples are fairly young and in the best physical condition and health that they will ever be in their lives.
This high libido usually lasts throughout the honeymoon and through the first few months of marriage.
Then libido begins to decline . Sex has become familiar and comfortable, and the couple, at least the woman, is not as excited by a mere glance as they used to be. The pressures of work and other activities crowd lovemaking out–often the couple (especially the woman) begin to value sleep more than lovemaking.
This is one of the first “tests” of marriage. Many couples mistakenly believe that they have “fallen out of love” with each other because this very normal phase happens to them. Or they might begin to believe the myth that they are “sexually incompatible.” Often, it is the male who continues to have a high libido, and the woman who cools off, and the man might believe that his wife “isn’t compatible sexually with him.”
Ridiculous. What couples need to learn is that this is normal, and they need to continue making love and learning new ways to practice loving each other not just in bed, but throughout the entire day.
The next big loss of libido occurs after a couple has a baby (or two or three or…!). Raising children is exhausting. A woman who is nursing often has conflicted feelings about using those breasts for sex as well as feeding her child (for that matter, it gives some men the heebie jeebies). Babies do not sleep, and tired people are not easily aroused and really don’t want to waste any precious quiet time having sex when they could be sleeping!
So far, I’ve been discussing times when the woman loses her desire and the man keeps it. A scenario that happens often in a marriage occurs when a man is working very hard, striving to rise in his career path, perhaps going back to school to gain more skills, and worried that he is in danger of being downsized. Downsizing in a job has a devastating effect on a man’s ability to have and maintain an erection.
There are many other times and seasons in a marriage when a couple’s sex drive is out-of-sync. All too often, it is one spouse, not both, who lose their “mojo.” This is tough stuff. But the answer is not to end the marriage. The answer is for the couple to work through it and learn to love each other with an even stronger love.
I agree with the OP that sex is important, especially for the husband, who gains his sense of self-worth and masculinity from love-making. (A woman gains her sense of self-worth and femininity from attention OUTSIDE of the bedroom.)
And I agree that if one of the spouses has something in their personality that makes sex repugnant to them (e.g., a heightened sense of purity and modesty that will not allow them to be totally intimate with a partner), this needs to come out BEFORE the wedding, and the “normal” spouse must be allowed to end the engagement. This isn’t the same as “loss of libido.” This is something that will make it impossible for the couple to enjoy a “normal” sex life in marriage.
But I agree with others that sex is not “THE MOST IMPORTANT THING” in marriage. A couple needs to find the balance.
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faithfulwannabe
Guest
That’s pretty outrageous to equate living human being with an object.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Well now that makes more sense. At least you admit that certain amounts of background info can be helpful for some people.
Now if only religious folks would stop acting like clueless sex couldn’t ever be a stupid thing. (At least, it sure is for certain personality types.)
Uhh… you almost had me until this part. Like I was saying, you might think that’s wonderful. Not everybody would agree. And yeah, I’m definitely one of them.
Heck, I sooner long for the day when I give a Don Juan comeback to every guy that looked down on me for not getting laid as much as they were. Bonus if I did it with little to no actual sex. I’d be the kind of guy only very, very lucky girls would have and one occasional romp with me beats a thousand with those meatheads.
For me, THAT is what I’d want for a miracle.
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heidi_storage
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So there’s the Bible, and then, practically speaking, there’s “real life”? So the Bible is only to be our guide when it conforms to current cultural notions? In that case, the Bible and church teaching aren’t your guide at all; they’re just, um, resources to be used when convenient. Honestly, a Buddhist could use the Bible in the same way, without making any claims to be a Christian; Thomas Jefferson “edited” the Bible so as not to include all of those silly miraculous things.
God made sex. His plan for it to occur within marriage is, as it always has been, the best plan for human sexuality.
God made sex. His plan for it to occur within marriage is, as it always has been, the best plan for human sexuality.
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white_sheep
Guest
People who test drive the car before marriage have something like quadruple the divorce rate. Ergo, practically speaking, it is far better to not test drive the car first.
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Lorelei12
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You make a lot of assumptions here. Studies generally show that finances, communication issues, adultery, alcohol or drug issues, etc. are common “reasons” people get divorced. I’ve never seen a study that suggested that “sexual incompatibility” makes or breaks a marriage.
In addition, divorces don’t just happen in a vacuum. There are typically several factors going on that lead people there. Bad sex doesn’t destroy marriages- if you have a good marriage, you’re not going to have bad sex. But if you have a bad marriage to begin with, or other issues going on, that is going to affect your sex life.
And, as other posters have mentioned, sex in the beginning is not necessarily an indicator of how sex will always be. This goes both ways too- if it’s fantastic in the beginning, that can change, and if it’s awkward in the beginning, it can get a lot better. Those in good marriages recognize this and work together to please each other, keeping in mind that appearances change over time, various stressors come and go, and that their marriage and relationship does not depend entirely on sex.
I’d be willing to bet that most of the people on this thread advocating “test driving” are unmarried. I understand that it’s easy to get frustrated and tired of being single, but keeping sex in its proper perspective will lead you to a healthier marriage, not toward divorce.
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pensmama87
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But being a virgin =/= clueless sex.
Again, that whole talking about it thing. People can do that with their clothes on.
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Softly
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I couldn’t have said it better!
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on_the_hill
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So, which is it?
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Hopey
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Your potential spouse is not an object like a car, but a person made in the image and likeness of Christ. You do not “test drive” people. You do not use people as you would a car. Of course people are going to have different appetites, but that is what you get to work out with your spouse in your marriage.
A person is a not a car to be tested.
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tawny
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Well stated.I have long found this to be a pretty insulting and not at all apt analogy.
First, my spouse is not a new car. I am not “buying” her. If I don’t know that I can live with her before I marry her, sex isn’t going to simplify my discernment process. It is only going to make it more complicated. Statistics back that up, too. Cohabitation and the like lead people to make worse marriage decisions, not better ones.
Second, even if we do allow for a “shopping” analogy, a more apt comparison would be a new house. I may go and check out a new house, but they sure won’t let me live in it until I sign on the dotted line. And even if they did, living in it for one night isn’t honestly going to tell me much about the long term.
I think the whole idea of “sexual compatibility” is way overblown. It’s not as though I would be passionately in love with my spouse and then mysteriously not enjoy having sex with her. Frankly, I don’t see how that would ever be possible.
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Lorelei12
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I’d be very interested in reading a study that claimed that people who “tried their spouses out first” so they would know if they were “compatible”, then married, were more likely to get divorced than people who did not feel the need to do a test-run. How they would measure “test-driving” versus all the other reasons people have premarital sex is beyond me.
But the question I was raising isn’t even whether the actual “test driving” leads to divorce, it’s whether sexual “incompatibility” (whatever that is) within a marriage is a main reason for divorce. I’ve never seen a study that concluded that, (and I am a social scientist) but I would be interested to read if anyone could find one.
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Neildown
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Only assuming that specific types of sexual stimulus are so high on the priority list as to present a legitimate buffer to a relationship in the first place. Catholic living solves this problem for the fact that Catholic living is a mutual giving of one’s self to another. That mutual self-giving in a marital relationship significantly disintegrates the more self-centered aspects of the personalities involved, rendering those concerns relatively insignificant.
Assuming you love a person enough to be willing to live with him/her the rest of your life I would assume you can work out those details afterwards - else exactly how much sanctity does one truly have invested in the vows?
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Exiled_Child
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Contrary to common place belief, the answer is no.
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CB_Catholic
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Marital sex is symbolic of the intimate relationship Jesus Christ has with His Church. That is Church teaching, and it is Biblical. To bring it down to the level of test-driving a car is absolutely horrendous. It shows neither respect for God or the human person.
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ProdglArchitect
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Clueless sex (I’m assuming you mean novice, unpracticed, first-timer sex) can be stupid, and awkward, and embarrassing, but the point of keeping it for marriage is that it’s something that you and your spouse will go through together. Rather than drive you apart, it will bind you through shared experience and learning. Although I was a virgin on my wedding night, as was my wife, the internet had pretty much done away with any of the mystery and surprise of sex; that loss is probably one of my greatest regrets because I didn’t get to fully experience that “newness” with my wife.
It’s sad that you don’t think that act of mutual discover is wonderful. As a fellow hardcore gaming nerd, geek and enthusiast (card, board, pen and paper, pc, console, live action, etc.), I understand how you feel about the comparisons. Most of my friends couldn’t believe I chose to wait, and it was exceptionally difficult to put up with the poking and prodding that did come from that decision. Fast forward a few years and I see my relationships in contrast to theirs, and I couldn’t be happier with my decision; the exclusivity and complete gift of the self; no baggage, no history, not wondering and comparing, just each other, wholly and completely; there’s nothing else like it.
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adrift
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I Corinthians 7:2 Although some translations use immorality in place of fornication the word used is porneia which is illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
Ephesians Chapter 5 also states that all sexual immorality should be avoided and some translations use the word fornication again with the same Greek word.
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