Practically speaking, don't we need to "test drive the car before we buy it?"

[ela2]

Yes we need to test drive the car to see that it functions well otherwise we might meet with an accident and die.

A spouse is not a car…one doesn’t die if sex is not good, which depends on love…if you love your spouse you’d try till it gets better… like with everything.

Take care and God bless!

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

There’s a reason virginity was so valued … it set the table for the sexual bonding to take place within marriage. It is known that for men to some extent and for women to a greater extent that partner counts greater than zero lead to less sexual bonding in marriage which has its downstream effects in the divorce rates. This isn’t to say that couples never succeed when dealing with past partner counts greater than zero. They can, but it is usually more difficult. For those of us who have sinned sexually, it is something to remember when dating and courting.

 

[on_the_hill]

It is known that for men to some extent and for women to a greater extent that partner counts greater than zero lead to less sexual bonding in marriage

Not to be argumentative, but is there objective research to support this? I’m curious about it.

Aside from that, one of the themes in this thread is that mutually enjoyable sexual relations require that participants develop a skill set. This puzzles me. I wasn’t aware that a person “gets better” at sex over time. Now I feel like I need to…I dunno…take lessons, or research it on the Internet. Which is a somewhat sarcastic response to what I feel is a bit of a strange fixation on the idea that good sex is reserved for those who get improve their abilities.

 

[MarkInOregon]

An overreaction. My whole original post was about a couple considering marriage. Shouldn’t a couple have sex before marriage to understand their sexual compatibility, to prevent disaster later on??

Sex – since that’s what you’re reducing it to – is but one small part of marriage–yet our society seems to elevate sex to the singular most important thing in marriage. Sex can be a wonderful part of marriage but everyone will go through changes in life–hormonal, physical, psychological, kids, etc., etc., etc.–all of which can affect the spouses desire for sexual intimacy. There is no guarantee that starting out on the same page regarding sex means that in one or five or ten years–you are still going to be on the same page. Given that reality why the supreme emphasis on starting out there?

I think it is more important to find a spouse who shares your values, who will pray and worship with you, who you are friends with, who knows what love truly is – true intimacy comes from that.

My goal as a husband is my wifes happiness, trying to make sure that her needs are met, that I fulfill my duty as a husband and a father–it’s not about getting my needs met by her. I am supposed to sacrifice my life for hers as Christ sacrificed himself for me. Disaster is averted when the spouses know what love is and love their spouse–it is not averted by starting the marriage on the same page sexually (whatever you mean by that) and expecting it to stay that way forever. True happiness is found in doing what we are supposed to do and not worrying about what others do for us. It is in giving not receiving. Your OP implies that unless your sexual needs are fully met your marriage will be a disaster–that will only be the case if you make it so.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[CaliLobo]

I’ve never heard of this either, not in real life anyway. And I’ve certainly never heard of or read any evidence that not “trying someone out” first leads to divorce. OP, I am interested to know where this idea came from in the first place.

The phrase “test drive a car before you buy it” to refer to the wisdom of premarital sex is everywhere. Just Google “test drive car before buy it” and “sex” and you’ll get several websites. Here is one from David Wygant, a predominant dating coach:

davidwygant.com/women/blog/turn-him-on/should-you-have-sex-before-marriage/
Come, all of you know me. Two people shouldn’t have sex until they’ve committed to each other for life?

Are you kidding me?

It’s like going to a car dealer and buying a car without test-driving it. It’s like paying a fortune for a brand new pair of shoes without trying them on. It’s like spending your life savings buying a house you’ve only ever seen from the outside. It looks great outside, so why not invest cent you ever earned in it?

**You must be out your mind if you still believe in no sex before marriage. **Yes, I know there are some religious or old-fashioned people out there. But you’re playing Russian roulette with your sex life. So many people I’ve been amazingly attracted to, and then we got to the bedroom and found out we weren’t compatible together. Everyone has different energies, sex drives, desires, kissing styles, and everything.

There are people out there that hold out for marriage, and I think it’s so dangerous. Sex is one of the most important parts of a successful long-term relationship. It’s the glue, which keeps the relationship together. It’s fun and we all have different definitions of what great sex is. For me, great sex is a three-hour marathon session on a Friday night. I love it. There’s nothing better than to connect with your lover all night long. There’s nothing more amazing that to be touched, held, kissed, and to make love endlessly.

Xantippe:

1. Calilobo, perhaps you have been “road tested” and deemed unsuitable. Does that feel good?

Story of my life, and not just in sex.

BlueEyedLady:

I guess I have the opposite experience. I was also not a virgin, my husband was, and it has never been an issue for either of us. I don’t want to take it back, but at the same time, I don’t think about it. It just doesn’t affect me or us today.

Yeah. I don’t see why it matters either. I won’t be a virgin when I’m married, but I don’t see why that matters. If people believe I sinned, then they should forgive me the way Jesus has forgiven me.
Rico S:

Well, it never feels good to be rejected, but really…isn’t this the same thing that happens with dating (or courtship for the more conservative of you out there). “i have road tested you and find you to be not devout enough…or not intelligent enough…or not pretty enough…or not ambitious enough?” None of those will feel great either, but it is essentially a “road testing” as well.

Yes, brilliant point! Every variable changes over time, and we are free to test those before marriage. So why can’t we test sex and sexual compatibility?

 

[Lorelei12]

The phrase “test drive a car before you buy it” to refer to the wisdom of premarital sex is everywhere. Just Google “test drive car before buy it” and “sex” and you’ll get several websites. Here is one from David Wygant, a predominant dating coach:

davidwygant.com/women/blog/turn-him-on/should-you-have-sex-before-marriage/
Come, all of you know me. Two people shouldn’t have sex until they’ve committed to each other for life?

Are you kidding me?

It’s like going to a car dealer and buying a car without test-driving it. It’s like paying a fortune for a brand new pair of shoes without trying them on. It’s like spending your life savings buying a house you’ve only ever seen from the outside. It looks great outside, so why not invest cent you ever earned in it?

**You must be out your mind if you still believe in no sex before marriage. **Yes, I know there are some religious or old-fashioned people out there. But you’re playing Russian roulette with your sex life. So many people I’ve been amazingly attracted to, and then we got to the bedroom and found out we weren’t compatible together. Everyone has different energies, sex drives, desires, kissing styles, and everything.

There are people out there that hold out for marriage, and I think it’s so dangerous. Sex is one of the most important parts of a successful long-term relationship. It’s the glue, which keeps the relationship together. It’s fun and we all have different definitions of what great sex is. For me, great sex is a three-hour marathon session on a Friday night. I love it. There’s nothing better than to connect with your lover all night long. There’s nothing more amazing that to be touched, held, kissed, and to make love endlessly.

One guy’s blog is hardly evidence of anything. I don’t doubt that there are people out there who actually do this, though I have never met any of them, to my knowledge. But people have sex outside of marriage for all kinds of reasons, and I’d guess that “test driving” is not really high up there on the list, and also am wondering where the assertion that people who don’t do this are more likely to divorce comes from. Is that just a theory or has anyone actually studied it?

 

[CaliLobo]

One guy’s blog is hardly evidence of anything. I don’t doubt that there are people out there who actually do this, though I have never met any of them, to my knowledge. But people have sex outside of marriage for all kinds of reasons, and I’d guess that “test driving” is not really high up there on the list, and also am wondering where the assertion that people who don’t do this are more likely to divorce comes from. Is that just a theory or has anyone actually studied it?

One guy’s blog isn’t, but a multitude of Google results IS evidence of the prevalence of the phrase.

That blog post was targeted to people who object to having sex outside of marriage, like you guys on CAF.

But to point out the obvious, people have sex outside of marriage because they biologically want to, they like each other sexually, and it feels right and fun to be naked and physical. If it weren’t for the Vatican you’d do the same.

 

[LongingSoul]

One guy’s blog isn’t, but a multitude of Google results IS evidence of the prevalence of the phrase.

That blog post was targeted to people who object to having sex outside of marriage, like you guys on CAF.

But to point out the obvious, people have sex outside of marriage because they biologically want to, they like each other sexually, and it feels right and fun to be naked and physical. If it weren’t for the Vatican you’d do the same.

Virginity and marriage have been esteemed virtues since time began. The Vatican didn’t invent them. They are human virtues.

 

[Lorelei12]

One guy’s blog isn’t, but a multitude of Google results IS evidence of the prevalence of the phrase.

That blog post was targeted to people who object to having sex outside of marriage, like you guys on CAF.

But to point out the obvious, people have sex outside of marriage because they biologically want to, they like each other sexually, and it feels right and fun to be naked and physical. If it weren’t for the Vatican you’d do the same.

LOL, um, no, I wouldn’t have.

I believe in the Church’s wisdom, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have my own brain and can’t evaluate what makes sense to me. People are free to follow Church teaching or not. Aside from the morality, there are plenty of practical reasons not to have sex outside of marriage, too. You’re arguing on this thread with a lot of happily married people with good sex lives, so I’m not really sure what you are trying to prove to any of us.

If you’re looking to get married one day, I sincerely hope that you don’t say to someone “Hey, I think you’re great, but you don’t get a ring until I’m satisfied that you’re good in bed”. Religion aside, that’s pretty shallow. I think you have some huge misunderstandings about what “good sex” actually even is.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The phrase “test drive a car before you buy it” to refer to the wisdom of premarital sex is everywhere. Just Google “test drive car before buy it” and “sex” and you’ll get several websites. Here is one from David Wygant, a predominant dating coach:

davidwygant.com/women/blog/turn-him-on/should-you-have-sex-before-marriage/

So, because a website on the internet promotes it, or because society believes it’s good, it must be? Is that it?

That’s about as juvenile a mindset as you can get.

Come, all of you know me. Two people shouldn’t have sex until they’ve committed to each other for life?

Are you kidding me?

Nope, we are 100% serious. I waited, and couldn’t be more grateful for that fact. My wife is the same. In fact, there’s not a single person I know that waited who regretted it. (That’s not alliteration either, I mean that literally, there is not a single person I know who chose to wait and thinks it was a bad idea after getting married.) On the other hand, I know many, many people who decided not to wait and regretted it.

It’s like going to a car dealer and buying a car without test-driving it. It’s like paying a fortune for a brand new pair of shoes without trying them on. It’s like spending your life savings buying a house you’ve only ever seen from the outside. It looks great outside, so why not invest cent you ever earned in it?

We have gone over, ad nauseum, the differences between a material purchase and a lifelong commitment. The two are not comparable, even in analogy.

**You must be out your mind if you still believe in no sex before marriage. **Yes, I know there are some religious or old-fashioned people out there. But you’re playing Russian roulette with your sex life. So many people I’ve been amazingly attracted to, and then we got to the bedroom and found out we weren’t compatible together. Everyone has different energies, sex drives, desires, kissing styles, and everything.

Nope, quite sane. Sex is not the key factor in a successful or happy marriage. My wife’s sex drive is -significantly- lower than mine, and her interests / desires differ greatly as well. Had we based our decision to marry on our “sexual compatibility” we would never have gotten married, and I would have lost the most amazing person I know, who brings me countless more joy than simple sexual pleasure can grant me. Additionally, despite the challenges that our differences present, our marriage is a strong, stable, loving one, and we both strive to care for the other person in all aspects of life. This means that sometimes I sacrifice and give up on my desires, and sometimes she sacrifices and has sex with me even when she doesn’t particularly feel like it. On those occasions, I make sure she doesn’t regret it This act of mutual self-sacrifice is the core of marriage, and it extends to sex along with every other aspect of life.

There are people out there that hold out for marriage, and I think it’s so dangerous. Sex is one of the most important parts of a successful long-term relationship. It’s the glue, which keeps the relationship together. It’s fun and we all have different definitions of what great sex is. For me, great sex is a three-hour marathon session on a Friday night. I love it. There’s nothing better than to connect with your lover all night long. There’s nothing more amazing that to be touched, held, kissed, and to make love endlessly.

Sex is not the most important part of a long-term relationship, and the fact that you think it is is sad. Sad is one part of a massive whole, and a small part at that. It’s fun, it feels good, it brings two people together, and is wholly transformative; but compared to the greater reality of what it is to truly give yourself to someone, it is nothing, a piece of sand in an ocean.

As for your idea of “great sex,” when that sort of thing happens it is certainly enjoyable, (don’t get me wrong, I wish it happened more often than it did, and I would love for something like that every Friday with my wife), but it is unrealistic, especially as you age or your responsibilities expand. To base your compatibility on these marathon sessions is a sure fire way to be dissappointed later in life

Yeah. I don’t see why it matters either. I won’t be a virgin when I’m married, but I don’t see why that matters. If people believe I sinned, then they should forgive me the way Jesus has forgiven me.

If you haven’t sought confession and genuinely decided to append your sinful habits, then He hasn’t forgiven you, and neither has God. Forgiveness is not doled out for free, it must be sought, and it must be sacrificed for. It requires change, and a commitment to look towards God in all things, sex included. True forgiveness is a two-way street, and requires efforts form both parties.

Yes, brilliant point! Every variable changes over time, and we are free to test those before marriage. So why can’t we test sex and sexual compatibility?

Because sex is not a variable, to be weighed and counted against others; it is an act of selfless giving from two people seeking to join themselves into one. It is the method through which we take part in God’s act of creation, in bringing new life into the world. It is not something to be treated as petty entertainment and diversion.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

CaliLobo,

Do you believe that it’s OK for a person to divorce their spouse because the spouse has become physically incapable of sex?

 

[MarkInOregon]

Sex is one of the most important parts of a successful long-term relationship. It’s the glue, which keeps the relationship together.

As someone happily married 25 years–I’d posit that you are quite wrong. Love is the glue. Spousal sex drives will change and what was once frequent may become quite infrequent–and it is love–true love that is the glue that holds that marriage together. “Great sex” may come and go and come again as we age and change and life presents it’s challenges.

It’s fun and we all have different definitions of what great sex is.

For me, great sex is a three-hour marathon session on a Friday night. I love it. There’s nothing better than to connect with your lover all night long. There’s nothing more amazing that to be touched, held, kissed, and to make love endlessly.

I’d like to invite you to come back and see us when you have three kids and are slightly sleep deprived. You might miss these days, but it is likely you’re not going to feel like this on Friday night–especially if you’ll be up in two hours feeding the baby. Lets hope your husband doesn’t start thinking that you guys are sexually incompatible at that point.

Lets not forget that Jesus forgives those who seek it with a true repentance. He does have some harsh words for those who don’t turn away from sin – I seem to remember. He calls us to do the will of the Father–not our own.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Murmurs]

People who test drive the car before marriage have something like quadruple the divorce rate. Ergo, practically speaking, it is far better to not test drive the car first.

Just FYI, the causal link doesn’t work the way you imply: people who are careful not to ‘test-drive’ (as it were) in advance are the same group of people who don’t believe divorce is the immediate answer to marital problems. I.e. it’s not that premarital abstinence leads automatically to a better/more stable/long-lasting marriage; they don’t believe in divorce, and also don’t believe in premarital sex…

But anyway…it always amazes me how angry people get on this topic…whatever side you’re on, everyone go take a cold shower…

 

[ela2]

Not to be argumentative, but is there objective research to support this? I’m curious about it.

Aside from that, one of the themes in this thread is that mutually enjoyable sexual relations require that participants develop a skill set. This puzzles me. I wasn’t aware that a person “gets better” at sex over time. Now I feel like I need to…I dunno…take lessons, or research it on the Internet. Which is a somewhat sarcastic response to what I feel is a bit of a strange fixation on the idea that good sex is reserved for those who get improve their abilities.

Gets better meaning if one of you has problems or expressed dissatisfaction, etc. gets better meaning finding out what works for each other…

 

[Jobis]

Just FYI, the causal link doesn’t work the way you imply: people who are careful not to ‘test-drive’ (as it were) in advance are the same group of people who don’t believe divorce is the immediate answer to marital problems. I.e. it’s not that premarital abstinence leads automatically to a better/more stable/long-lasting marriage; they don’t believe in divorce, and also don’t believe in premarital sex…

But anyway…it always amazes me how angry people get on this topic…whatever side you’re on, everyone go take a cold shower…

At least we can agree that divorces are not a happy affair, indicative of a healthy relationship though? Especially when children are involved. I’d honestly expect a couple who doesn’t believe in divorce or premarital sex to have their priorities straighter than the divorcees, and thus lead a happier life. That is of course my opinion though.

 

[Bookcat]

An overreaction. My whole original post was about a couple considering marriage. Shouldn’t a couple have sex before marriage to understand their sexual compatibility, to prevent disaster later on??

No.

For as noted they are not a car.

And such would be gravely wrong…gravely contrary to their love…and a lie to each other.

And sex outside of Marriage is NEVER – marital relations within Marriage. Such would never tell them what such would be like. Ever.

Tis the nature of Marriage to be Marriage

And Marital relations to be Marital relations.

Accept no imitation.

 

[PaulGH]

Of course the Bible says that sex outside of marriage is a sin.

But we know that sex is a major issue that can make or break a marriage. It is important for people to know what their partners like and don’t like in sex, and how much libido their partners have. We know that a marriage that is not open to life is also a sin, in Catholicism. We know that lack of sex, or bad sex, can ruin relationships and destroy marriages.

So practically speaking, despite what the Bible says, don’t people need to “test drive the car before they buy it,” in other words, have sex before marriage to test each other’s sexual compatibility? Isn’t it a foolish risk to not “test drive a car before buying it?” Wouldn’t it be a possible setup for failure to not have sex before marriage?

Let’s discuss.

I could talk about social science which shows that divorce rates are higher among those who co-habitate before marriage. Or I could talk about the fact that you are suggesting something which violates God’s commandments (which you recognize already, by saying “despite what the Bible says”). Or I could talk about the fact that sex binds a man and a woman together in a way that is not a good idea with someone who you aren’t sure you want to marry. Or I could talk about the fact that sex outside of marriage risks pregnancy outside of marriage (not to mention STDs). And without reading the posts here, I suspect that others have addressed several or all of these points already.

But instead, I will share my brief reaction to the idea put forth in your post, especially the thread title:

What a disrespectful, demeaning, degrading, utilitarian, and commercialized way to treat something as special and sacred as marital intimacy! Yuck!

 

[Xantippe]

Not to be argumentative, but is there objective research to support this? I’m curious about it.

Aside from that, one of the themes in this thread is that mutually enjoyable sexual relations require that participants develop a skill set. This puzzles me. I wasn’t aware that a person “gets better” at sex over time. Now I feel like I need to…I dunno…take lessons, or research it on the Internet. Which is a somewhat sarcastic response to what I feel is a bit of a strange fixation on the idea that good sex is reserved for those who get improve their abilities.

Of course. The female orgasm can be a very elusive beast.

 

[pensmama87]

Of course. The female orgasm can be a very elusive beast.

Some of it, too, is learning your spouse and what they like and don’t like. It’s like a dance. You can know all the theory behind the moves, but what really makes it work is when you get to know your partner. And being skilled in dancing with one partner may not help with another.

Where’s Cat to talk about pairs figure skating?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Most of the replies have been some version of “how insulting; people aren’t objects.” But have you considered that:

1. People do not get more damaged with more sexual experience, unlike a car which gets more damaged with more use

Riiiiight. Because STD’s aren’t a real thing. Because unwanted pregnancies and abortions don’t happen. Because jealousy and insecurity don’t actually exist. I’ll have to tell my friends who’ve told me about their depression and therapy (and in one case, suicide attempts) caused by low self esteem and no sense of worth because of all the guys who test drove them and then moved on that their problems don’t actually exist. They’ll feel much better, I’m sure.

1. Catholic sex scandal? Stop saying that the sins of a few priests don’t represent the whole church. There’s a reason why priests feel so pressured. Maybe what it really means is that we need to rethink whether sex is as taboo as we thought it was.

Aside from this being a red herring, by your logic public school teachers should be the safest people in the world for our kids to be around since so many of them aren’t bound by Church teachings, yet kids are 100 times more likely to be molested by them than a priest. Stop saying that the sins of a few teachers don’t represent the entire public school system. There’s a reason teachers feel so pressured. Maybe what it really means is that we need to rethink whether pushing graphic sex ed on young children is as innocuous as we thought it was.