Practicing Catholic

[Xantippe]

St. Francis, there are a LOT of issues with what you write. First of all, if you want to quote Jesus, great, but he never said “go to mass every Sunday.” What he did give us was the concept that we should love God, and love our neighbor as ourselves. I see a lot more condemnation of people on this board for things like missing mass than I do for failing to love our neighbors.
**
Nah–there’s easily 10-20X the taking to task for failing to love neighbors. **

Also, since when does failure to keep His commandments equal failure to love Him? Maybe I’m weak. Maybe I’m confused about my obligations. Maybe I’m 80 years old and my joints ache and I can’t make mass.

If you can’t go to Mass, you can’t go to Mass. If you don’t know you should go to Mass, you don’t know. But the OP is able to and knows that he ought to.

It must be tough for some posters, having to make those judgments about who is and isn’t a practicing catholic. Those ivory towers sure must be nice to live in.

Eh, this is not a particularly tough question.

There are some basic procedural minimums to be a practicing Catholic, and weekly Mass for those without really good reasons is one of them.

Edited to add: I see that the OP actually can’t get to Mass on his or her own, but probably ought to talk to the parish about obtaining transportation.

 

[Sy_Noe]

My children practice their music and sports every day. If they took a six month break, they would no longer be in the band or on the team.

Just based on Catholic teaching I’m not sure this is a great comparison. Fr Grondin recently answered a question about “former Catholics” in the “Ask an Apologist” section of CAF by saying “there is no such things as a former Catholic. Once baptized Catholic, or received into the Church, that person is always considered a Catholic”.

So technically it’s not that they are no longer on the team. They may be on the sidelines and not playing in the game so to speak. But they’re also not a former member of the team.

 

[St_Francis]

Many people have to work on Sunday in our modern day society. I think it’s a matter for each person’s conscience to determine perhaps in consultation with their priest.

Servile labor means laborious chores. Cooking meals and doing dishes are necessary and acceptable on Sunday. Doing labor that could be delayed until another day would be frowned upon, as far as I understand. Perhaps someone else has a better understanding of it.

We are to avoid *unnecessary *servile labor. If a person has a job requiring him to work on Sundays, then he’d have to work or lose his job. But it would be good if he looked for another job which would not force him to work on Sundays.

Something which could be done on other days should not be done on Sundays: yardwork, vacuuming, etc. One’s life should be ordered to God, and this type of work should be done on other days so as to leave Sunday free. If it is possible to do the work only on the Sunday, then it must be done on the Sunday, but again, it would be good to move towards making the changes which would allow one to do the work on other days.

An example i read in a book on moral theology was if a farmer had to bring in his hay (an old book ), and it was going to rain on Monday, then he could bring it in on Sunday.

The Church is not trying to trip us up or make our lives difficult but trying to show us how we can best live a life pleasing to God. Sometimes the priorities conflict, and we can learn what the best course of action is so that we can see how this all works.

 

[Sy_Noe]

St. Francis, there are a LOT of issues with what you write. First of all, if you want to quote Jesus, great, but he never said “go to mass every Sunday.” What he did give us was the concept that we should love God, and love our neighbor as ourselves. I see a lot more condemnation of people on this board for things like missing mass than I do for failing to love our neighbors.

Also, since when does failure to keep His commandments equal failure to love Him? Maybe I’m weak. Maybe I’m confused about my obligations. Maybe I’m 80 years old and my joints ache and I can’t make mass.

It must be tough for some posters, having to make those judgments about who is and isn’t a practicing catholic. Those ivory towers sure must be nice to live in.

I don’t know how tough it is for them but I see your point. Your earlier post also brought up some good points about what if you miss Mass once, twice, in 1 month or in 6 mos, etc. I’d add what if rhe Catholic never misses Mass but after attending a Saturday vigil or Sunday morning Mass then goes home and mows the yard or does other yard work on Sunday? Plants flowers? Plants a garden? Trims the shrubbery? Washes the car? Does some laundry? Goes shopping, goes out to dinner where the store clerk, chef, or waiter are Catholics? Goes get a haircut after Mass by a hairstylist who is Catholic? In essence it could be argued they would be contributing to the situation requiring their fellow Catholics to work. Or what if Catholics never miss Mass but don’t observe a Church teaching such as on birth control for instance? Or they live together outside marriage? Or they eat meat on Fridays of Lent? Don’t fast on Ash Wed or Good Fri? Etc, etc. I guess I just figure just far too many variables and I’ve got myself and my own salvation to work out with a trembling heart without labeling or having a need to judge others. I’m just thankful God didn’t make it my job to do.

 

[MacQ]

St. Francis, there are a LOT of issues with what you write. First of all, if you want to quote Jesus, great, but he never said “go to mass every Sunday.” What he did give us was the concept that we should love God, and love our neighbor as ourselves. I see a lot more condemnation of people on this board for things like missing mass than I do for failing to love our neighbors.

Also, since when does failure to keep His commandments equal failure to love Him? Maybe I’m weak. Maybe I’m confused about my obligations. Maybe I’m 80 years old and my joints ache and I can’t make mass.

It must be tough for some posters, having to make those judgments about who is and isn’t a practicing catholic. Those ivory towers sure must be nice to live in.

The OP said he was just “tired of going to Mass and taking a break”, even thought the transportation issues that kept him away initially were no longer a factor. That’s the part people responded to.
I think the responses would have been different had he said he’s 80 and can’t get there due to health.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Just in case you think differently…

Non-practicing does NOT mean non-culpable. You will still be held responsible for your sinful acts

Catechism 846 and 847 speak about knowing the CC is necessary for salvation. But what if the NPC knows what the CC teaches but they don’t have full faith or belief in the teaching authority or in all teaching? Do they truly know without belief? As such do you think they are culpable? What if they sleep in one Sunday morning before spending their Sun afternoons serving the Lord at a soup kitchen? Maybe they were so tired from working all day Sat? And they don’t confess that one Sunday before they die? They know the CC teaches they’ve committed a mortal sin but they don’t believe it. Are they so unrighteous for having slept in that one Sun before heading off to the soup kitchen as to warrant eternal damnation?

 

[Book_Worm]

I think the important question here is not, “Am I a practicing Catholic?” but “Why are you tired of attending Mass?”

It sounds as if your faith is not flourishing, that your souls is not being fed, that you are not excited by what happens at the Mass, that you have lost the awe that comes from realizing that bread and wine are changed into the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ.

Perhaps your first steps should be finding ways to change that, rather than concern over what strangers on the internet deem your church membership stance is.

 

[MacQ]

I think the important question here is not, “Am I a practicing Catholic?” but “Why are you tired of attending Mass?”

It sounds as if your faith is not flourishing, that your souls is not being fed, that you are not excited by what happens at the Mass, that you have lost the awe that comes from realizing that bread and wine are changed into the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ.

Perhaps your first steps should be finding ways to change that, rather than concern over what strangers on the internet deem your church membership stance is.

 

[PolarGuy]

The concept that there are “procedural minimums” for being a “practicing Catholic” is indefensible.

Why? Because, as usual, these minimums are entirely subjective, in the eyes of who is doing the judging.

Procedural minimums? The “minimum” is to believe Christ is the son of God and to love Him and our neighbors. The rest is just details.

It’s also interesting that the same poster who put forth that there are “procedural minimums” also wrote that we had best have a “good reason” for missing. But who decides what’s a good reason?

What if the person can’t attend mass because they’re a soldier in wartime and there’s no chaplain? OK, good reason. But what about “I work on Saturdays and Sundays and can’t go?” Somebody will condemn the person for not quitting their job and also for committing the unpardonable sin of making others work on Sundays as well.

For many posters on this board, no reason is ever good enough for not attending mass; or, for that matter, for disagreeing with everything a priest says or does; for criticizing a priest (let alone the Church as a whole) and not agreeing with everything the Church does or says.

 

[PolarGuy]

For that matter – what if I’m not a “practicing Catholic?” Am I in a state of mortal sin? Is it grave matter for me to be “non-practicing?” Is it “grave matter” because some hyper-scrupulous folks on the internet said I was non-practicing? Do I need to confess that I’m non-practicing? Is it a mortal sin to fail to confess that I’m non-practicing? If someone said I’m non practicing, can I receive the Eucharist?

If I’m non-practicing, will people welcome me at Church? On the internet? Or will they behave like sin-obsessed, judgmental…people (no namecalling from me!)

This reaches ridiculous proportions quite easily.

 

[Xantippe]

The concept that there are “procedural minimums” for being a “practicing Catholic” is indefensible.

**Nope–it’s a pretty bare bones minimum. Weekly Mass, days of obligation, communion at least once during the Easter season, confession once per year, etc. (That’s if it’s physically possible, of course.) If you look up “how often must a Catholic…” you’ll get the minimums. Here’s the one for yearly confession:

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/sacraments/penance/sacrament-of-penance-question-and-answer.cfm**

Please don’t confuse “practicing Catholic” and “good person.” You could do all of that stuff and be a terrible person and do none of it and be Socrates or one of the other famous good pagans. But do be a practicing Catholic, one has to practice Catholicism.

Why? Because, as usual, these minimums are entirely subjective, in the eyes of who is doing the judging.

Nah–there are traditional minimums (with generous exceptions).

Procedural minimums? The “minimum” is to believe Christ is the son of God and to love Him and our neighbors. The rest is just details.

**Protestants and Orthodox people believe just as much as Catholics do that Christ is the son of God and that they ought to love Christ and their neighbors. A definition of “practicing Catholic” that accidentally includes Protestants and Orthodox does not work as a definition.

To love Christ and our neighbors is the ideal, not the minimum. The thing is, getting to Mass or confession (when physically possible) is easy. Loving your MIL or your ne’er-do-well sibling is hard.**

It’s also interesting that the same poster who put forth that there are “procedural minimums” also wrote that we had best have a “good reason” for missing. But who decides what’s a good reason?
**
There’s lots of moral theology on this, presumably. We can also seek pastoral advice. We aren’t expected to make all of this up ourselves.

**

What if the person can’t attend mass because they’re a soldier in wartime and there’s no chaplain? OK, good reason. But what about “I work on Saturdays and Sundays and can’t go?” Somebody will condemn the person for not quitting their job and also for committing the unpardonable sin of making others work on Sundays as well.

**If they can get a different and equally paying job, then it would be a good idea to quit the Saturday/Sunday job.

As always, seeking pastoral advice would be a good idea.
**
For many posters on this board, no reason is ever good enough for not attending mass; or, for that matter, for disagreeing with everything a priest says or does; for criticizing a priest (let alone the Church as a whole) and not agreeing with everything the Church does or says.

That was very confusing, but I’ll attempt to answer it.

I’m not one of those people who think no reason is ever good enough for not attending Mass. If you’ve got an infectious disease, please stay home. If your baby is colicky and you can’t leave him with anybody, please stay home. If there are dangerous road conditions, please stay home. If you’ve got no transportation to Mass, talk to your parish about a ride. If they can’t help you out, don’t worry about staying home.

“Many posters” are not the voice of the Church. There are a number of issues (for instance use of birth control pills to control gynecological conditions) where good Catholics may not know the “right answer” and may be unnecessarily rigoristic. The answer is not to ignore everybody and just go one’s own way, but to seek out authoritative answers and pastoral advice for tricky cases.

 

[Xantippe]

I have a Catholic ethicist in my family circle, so it is pretty easy for me to get sound, orthodox advice with little trouble. But other people can look a little further afield and get good answers (from their pastor, one of the reputable Catholic apologetics Q and As (like CA), from the National Catholic Bioethics Center, etc).

 

[St_Francis]

Link to document

Quotes from Msgr Pope’s article: Many claim that although scripture mandates a day of rest, there is no requirement to attend Church. But this is really not the case. Scripture links the Sabbath to “sacred assembly.” For example, six days shall work be done; but **the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest and sacred assembly; **you shall do no work; it is a Sabbath to the LORD. (Lev 23:3). Thus, notice how this text spells out that the Sabbath is not only for rest but for “sacred assembly.” This phrase, “sacred assembly” is what is meant by the word “Church.” Church means “assembly.”

Likewise, **Jesus in his observance of Sabbath attended the synagogue **(another word for “assembly” or “gathering”). Scripture says Jesus attended the synagogue on the Sabbath habitually (cf Lk 4:16).

Further, scripture admonishes us **to not neglect to meet together, **as is the habit of some, but encourage one another (Heb 10:25).

For some to say that they don’t need to assemble, to meet together with fellow Christians in Church on Sunday, (our Sabbath) is surely unbiblical. The Old Testament commanded it, Jesus attended, who are we to fail in this regard? We must not neglect to meet together. We must not neglect to receive Holy Communion and be instructed in the Word of God…

…A further indication that Sunday Church worship is required of the Christian is in **Jesus’ mandate that we receive Holy Communion. **Jesus warns us not to miss receiving the Holy Communion with these words: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in you. (John 6:53)

Without the Holy Eucharist which is the Body and Blood of Jesus, we are starving ourselves spiritually. If you and I were to stop eating our worldly food we would soon grow weak and eventually die. It would be a form of suicide.

It is no less true of our spiritual food. **If we stop receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus in Holy Communion, we grow weak and eventually die, spiritually, we “have no life in us!” **To skip Sunday Mass sets up a deadly pattern of spiritual starvation, it is a deadly thing, a mortal sin!

For this reason the Church teaches: *the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. *(CCC # 2181) It comes down to this, either we eat or we die.

(Some formatting mix-ups may cause this to be very slightly different than the original, like I added an apostrophe, italicized the CCC quote, and I added paragraph breaks to make it easier to read online.)

This article was a supplement given when this talk was given. This is an excellent talk, totally worth listening to. It is about *Dominus Dies, *the Day of the Lord, an encyclical promulgated by Pope St. John Paul II. The link has links to a downloadable MP3, a podcast version, and a video of the talk.

 

[MacQ]

For that matter – what if I’m not a “practicing Catholic?” Am I in a state of mortal sin? Is it grave matter for me to be “non-practicing?” Is it “grave matter” because some hyper-scrupulous folks on the internet said I was non-practicing? Do I need to confess that I’m non-practicing? Is it a mortal sin to fail to confess that I’m non-practicing? If someone said I’m non practicing, can I receive the Eucharist?

If I’m non-practicing, will people welcome me at Church? On the internet? Or will they behave like sin-obsessed, judgmental…people (no namecalling from me!)

This reaches ridiculous proportions quite easily.

Yes, you have certainly demonstrated that.

 

[St_Francis]

…For many posters on this board, no reason is ever good enough for not attending mass;…

I don’t know who these “many posters” could possibly be, since the majority of Catholics on this board understand the concept that if one is in a coma, the obligation is lifted, and so on.

Maybe you could link to some of these posts where people say that there is no reason good enough for missing Mass.

For that matter – what if I’m not a “practicing Catholic?” Am I in a state of mortal sin? Is it grave matter for me to be “non-practicing?” Is it “grave matter” because some hyper-scrupulous folks on the internet said I was non-practicing? Do I need to confess that I’m non-practicing? Is it a mortal sin to fail to confess that I’m non-practicing? If someone said I’m non practicing, can I receive the Eucharist?

If I’m non-practicing, will people welcome me at Church? On the internet? Or will they behave like sin-obsessed, judgmental…people (no namecalling from me!)

This reaches ridiculous proportions quite easily.

What is this all about? Why does the Church teach us that certain things are sinful, that certain paths are dangerous?

To teach us how to end up in Heaven instead of spending eternity in the fires of Hell.

There are no Church police giving out tickets for missing Mass. There are no judges putting us in jail for committing a mortal sin. So, what’s the point? To help all of us stay out of Hell.

The next level is to teach people *how *to love God, Who created us, and Christ, Who suffered and died for us.

Now, if some don’t want to love God, and if they don’t care if their souls burn forever, that’s their business.

But it is not “judgemental” of us to point out that missing Mass is spiritually dangerous and might lead to one’s spending eternity burning up; we are not “hyper-scrupulous” to tell people that simply being a nice guy is insufficient to get into Heaven; we are not “sin-obsessed” when we point out that the path someone is on is a path that leads away from God and towards the devil.

If you were distracted and about to step into an open manhole, would you not be grateful to a person who pointed this out to you before you fell in? Or would you turn around and tell him he was judgemental and hyper-scrupulous about your behavior?

The reality is that people have the freedom to chose to love and follow Christ or not. If someone doesn’t want to, none of us will make him. But if people come onto a Catholic board and tell us that they are acting in opposition to Church teaching, we will do our best to teach and admonish him, because we are Catholic, because that is part of loving our neighbors.

PS: if a person decides to return to the practice of Catholicism, they should make a good Confession before receiving the Eucharist.

 

[PolarGuy]

The reality is that despite all the verbiage directed at me, no one is in any position to say with authority who is, and who is not, a “practicing Catholic.”

The more posters try to do so, the more they are, quite frankly, embarrassing themselves.

Why? Because the more the posters try to define what a practicing Catholic is, the more subjective grows the list.

Some suggest “procedural minimums” that not only include Mass weekly, but also now appear to include confession once per year; and/or that we should “look up” “how often should a Catholic [do] X…”, as if “looking it up” somehow means that where we look is authoritative [This list of minimums seems to get added to the more we check this thread].

We’re also getting directions to seek pastoral advice, or, if we’re lucky, we’ll have a Catholic ethicist in the family we can look to for guidance.

We’re told to do what Jesus said…but we’re also told that “loving others” (which He said to do) is the ideal, not the minimum – but the minimum (attending Mass) is not something He said.

In other words, it’s all subjective, folks.

But this I am certain of: All the folks who want to define what a practicing Catholic is, will always define it to include themselves – no matter their failings or their own sins.

The ivory towers grow taller as this thread gets older…

 

[PolarGuy]

Actually, St. Francis, “being a nice guy” very well could be more than enough to get you to heaven, particularly since the Church never categorically says who isn’t there. I’d bet a random assortment of “nice people” have a better chance of getting there than anyone else, including compared to a random assortment of the people I see at Church every week…

 

[chefmomster2]

**

Catechism 846 and 847 speak about knowing the CC is necessary for salvation. But what if the NPC knows what the CC teaches but they don’t have full faith or belief in the teaching authority or in all teaching? Do they truly know without belief? As such do you think they are culpable? What if they sleep in one Sunday morning before spending their Sun afternoons serving the Lord at a soup kitchen? Maybe they were so tired from working all day Sat? And they don’t confess that one Sunday before they die? They know the CC teaches they’ve committed a mortal sin but they don’t believe it. Are they so unrighteous for having slept in that one Sun before heading off to the soup kitchen as to warrant eternal damnation?

As Catholics we are expected to be obedient in faith. That means to trust in the teachings of the Church. (We have a further duty to explore our difficulties and to come to understand and incorporate the doctrine into our consciences.)

Full knowledge is a somewhat awkward term. It means that the person is “fully” aware that what they do is sinful. So, whether we like it or not, if we know missing mass is sinful we know enough to be culpable for the sin.

The circumstances you speak of in which the person is in defiance of the doctrines is culpable, generally speaking. If we deliberately defy teachings that can also be grievously sinful since it might be considered vincible ignorance, in other words, a lack of knowledge that we could and should be able to rectify.

The obligation to attend Mass is not fulfilled by the substitution of a charitable act, however wonderful it might be. Charitable works do not bring us into the experience of the full presence of Christ. They don’t provide the Eucharist for our strength. They don’t unite us in the body of Christ, the Church, in as essential a way.

I can’t judge specific cases. No one can. None of us knows the heart and mind of the person, nor the thoughts of God. He is the only judge. Each one of us must judge for him/herself what is acceptable to the Lord by following the teachings of the Church for guidance.

 

[St_Francis]

Actually, St. Francis, “being a nice guy” very well could be more than enough to get you to heaven, particularly since the Church never categorically says who isn’t there. I’d bet a random assortment of “nice people” have a better chance of getting there than anyone else, including compared to a random assortment of the people I see at Church every week…

The reality is that despite all the verbiage directed at me, no one is in any position to say with authority who is, and who is not, a “practicing Catholic.”

The more posters try to do so, the more they are, quite frankly, embarrassing themselves.

Why? Because the more the posters try to define what a practicing Catholic is, the more subjective grows the list.

Some suggest “procedural minimums” that not only include Mass weekly, but also now appear to include confession once per year; and/or that we should “look up” “how often should a Catholic [do] X…”, as if “looking it up” somehow means that where we look is authoritative [This list of minimums seems to get added to the more we check this thread].

We’re also getting directions to seek pastoral advice, or, if we’re lucky, we’ll have a Catholic ethicist in the family we can look to for guidance.

We’re told to do what Jesus said…but we’re also told that “loving others” (which He said to do) is the ideal, not the minimum – but the minimum (attending Mass) is not something He said.

In other words, it’s all subjective, folks.

But this I am certain of: All the folks who want to define what a practicing Catholic is, will always define it to include themselves – no matter their failings or their own sins.

The ivory towers grow taller as this thread gets older…

Do you want to learn anything here?

 

[chefmomster2]

The concept that there are “procedural minimums” for being a “practicing Catholic” is indefensible.

PolarGuy, would you then contradict the Church? She has set such “procedural minimums”. They are called the precepts of the Church and you can read them in one of my posts on page one.

The Church stresses that these are in fact the bare necessities and don’t come near to the description of a truly good Catholic for many reasons. But, they are helpful for those Catholics who wish to know, “What do I “have to” do?”

They can also serve as an advisement to the rest of us who consider we are doing all we need to do. Upon reading this list of the minimum standards we can begin to understand that we may actually not be doing as much as we thought!

Yes, we have to make judgments, but these should always be directed at ourselves. We can look into ourselves and make decisions on right and wrong. This is what the conscience is for. We use it to judge our own behavior.