Practicing gay catholics shouldn't receive communion

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PatriceA said:
Are we really talking though? Because I think you are trying to convince other Catholics that you are right about homosexuals being able to have sexual relations and not hearing what others are saying about the truth in the teachings of the Church. Are you appreciating the views of Catholics whose views are aligned with the Catholic Church?

Are you male or female and how does finding out if you could marry your girlfriend have anything to do with the OP?
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I’m male, I started a thread below this called ‘Marriage’. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, I’m just trying to get people to look at things from a fresh angle.
 
Slaney said:
As long as your opinion doesn’t lead you and others to sin…
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I don’t think what I say is going to influence anyone. We all sin. Nothing I or anyone else says will change it.
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
I’m male, I started a thread below this called ‘Marriage’. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, I’m just trying to get people to look at things from a fresh angle.
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You didn’t answer my question.

Asking others to consider a “fresh” angle that is sinful, is sinful in itself.
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
I’m not opposing anything, I only came on this forum to find out if I could marry my girlfriend and I’ve stirred up a hornets nest. Look, I’m not some disciple of Satan, I just think the more people talk about stuff like this then the more people can appreciate different views.
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Questioning ourselves and our approach to faith etc. is all fine and well, but one must stick to the basic logic of a system. I’m sure you must feel just as irritated as many here when you’re confronted with speculations of fringe scientists who claim to have finally built a working perpetuum mobile, or creationists who try to tell you about new interpretations regarding redshift. Laws of physics can’t be argued with.
The same with Catholicism, even though it all seems man-made on the surface: there are a few basic sine qua nons in Catholic teaching, and if one takes that away, it simply ceases to be Catholic.
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
I don’t think what I say is going to influence anyone. We all sin. Nothing I or anyone else says will change it.
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Yes we all sin and are discouraged from doing so, especially the soul destroying sin of receiving Communion in mortal sin, that is knowing you are in mortal sin and carrying on regardless…

Your opinion could be seen as causing others to sin, like it was in the garden, " go on eat that apple, you won’t die " LIES we are going to die…
 
erlembald said:
Questioning ourselves and our approach to faith etc. is all fine and well, but one must stick to the basic logic of a system. I’m sure you must feel just as irritated as many here when you’re confronted with speculations of fringe scientists who claim to have finally built a working perpetuum mobile, or creationists who try to tell you about new interpretations regarding redshift. Laws of physics can’t be argued with.
The same with Catholicism, even though it all seems man-made on the surface: there are a few basic sine qua nons in Catholic teaching, and if one takes that away, it simply ceases to be Catholic.
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I’m not trying to take them away. All I’m saying is if you questions things, you learn why they are there. If you look at anything, be it physics, Catholicism or anything else, it’s easy to just accept what you are told and not learn from it. If you ask questions, even probing, maybe offensive to some people, you learn. Imagine a world with no journalists. Politicians could do what they wanted. Because no one would report it. It’s the same with faith, if we didn’t continually question it, imagine if some evil crept in somehow. If people just offered blind obedience then think of he damage it could cause. Look at the reformation, the Papacy at the time was ill behaved, the Borgias and their incest and Nepotism. It caused half of Western Europe to leave the church. If you don’t question leaders in any field they become complacent. Maybe you don’t agree with what I’m saying but I’m not doing it ‘for a laugh’. There is a purpose behind it.
 
Slaney said:
Yes we all sin and are discouraged from doing so, especially the soul destroying sin of receiving Communion in mortal sin, that is knowing you are in mortal sin and carrying on regardless…

Your opinion could be seen as causing others to sin, like it was in the garden, " go on eat that apple, you won’t die " LIES we are going to die…
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I’m not causing anyone to sin. If someone sins because of anything I say then they are probably very weak and easily influenced.
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
I’m not trying to take them away. All I’m saying is if you questions things, you learn why they are there. If you look at anything, be it physics, Catholicism or anything else, it’s easy to just accept what you are told and not learn from it. If you ask questions, even probing, maybe offensive to some people, you learn. Imagine a world with no journalists. Politicians could do what they wanted. Because no one would report it. It’s the same with faith, if we didn’t continually question it, imagine if some evil crept in somehow. If people just offered blind obedience then think of he damage it could cause. Look at the reformation, the Papacy at the time was ill behaved, the Borgias and their incest and Nepotism. It caused half of Western Europe to leave the church. If you don’t question leaders in any field they become complacent. Maybe you don’t agree with what I’m saying but I’m not doing it ‘for a laugh’. There is a purpose behind it.
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I agree with much of what you’re saying. For example, many Catholics today have become critical of the interpretation and reception of Vatican 2. This is indeed a discussion that should be continued. It is important, however, that whenever we don’t understand a dogma of the Church, we should first and foremost be asking “why is it so”, and “what does the Church want to tell us with this”, and not “why can’t this be” or “why is this wrong”! But when it comes to the question of how to implement this dogma pastorally, then we as faithful have a much greater leeway I believe. Here we indeed can be at odds with each other without destroying our foundation - if it’s done in good faith!
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
I’m not causing anyone to sin. If someone sins because of anything I say then they are probably very weak and easily influenced.
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You’ve been given answers as to why practicing gay Catholics can’t receive Holy Communion…no point going over old ground, I’m out of this thread. :tiphat:
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
…According to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided’. - Pope Benedict XVI

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. - John 8:7

People should remember Christ did not teach people to judge others. He lived with sinners and died for them.
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And such would NOT be any unjust discrimination

and is not what Pope Benedict XVI would have meant in saying anything of that order.

Nor does what Jesus said apply to this.
And such has nothing to do with “judging others”.

If anyone is living in a gravely disordered way --they need to not present themselves for Holy Communion.

Be it a person with homosexual attraction who is living by such or a person engaged in adultery or heterosexual sinful way of living etc etc

Tis not singling out those who are engaged in homosexual relationships.

Paul warned us in fact about “eating and drinking condemnation” to ourselves – in regards to receiving the Holy Eucharist …we do not want this for anyone.

Such is in ones better interest not to so receive.
 
Wow Rabbitthekitten, I have to say I don’t agree with anything you’ve said here today except what you said in post 79…Boy you really have indeed **stirred up a hornets nest ** that’s for sure! 😉
 
erlembald said:
I agree with much of what you’re saying. For example, many Catholics today have become critical of the interpretation and reception of Vatican 2. This is indeed a discussion that should be continued. It is important, however, that whenever we don’t understand a dogma of the Church, we should first and foremost be asking “why is it so”, and “what does the Church want to tell us with this”, and not “why can’t this be” or “why is this wrong”! But when it comes to the question of how to implement this dogma pastorally, then we as faithful have a much greater leeway I believe. Here we indeed can be at odds with each other without destroying our foundation - if it’s done in good faith!
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Yes, you get my point. This exactly what I have been trying to say. Maybe if I was a little more articulate people may have got the point of what I was doing earlier.

Vatican II I don’t think modernising the church is bad per se. But I do tend to go to Latin Mass when possible. But that’s only a personal preference. I think taking a six year old would bore them. So that’s one example where doing what I don’t personally agree with is a good thing.
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
I’m not causing anyone to sin. If someone sins because of anything I say then they are probably very weak and easily influenced.
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That’s why we are to be careful with leading others to think of sin as normal, so we don’t cause the very weak and easily influenced to sin.
 
Mark121359 said:
Wow Rabbitthekitten, I have to say I don’t agree with anything you’ve said here today except what you said in post 79…Boy you really have stirred up a hornets nest that’s for sure! 😉
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Yeah, but stirring up a hornets nest is a good thing if people learn something from it.
 
PatriceA said:
That’s why we are to be careful with leading others to think of sin as normal, so we don’t cause the very weak and easily influenced to sin.
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No one is going to ‘turn gay’ and behave likewise due to anything I say. But I take your point.
 
Rabbitthekitten said:
Yeah, but stirring up a hornets nest is a good thing if people learn something from it.
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But what are you learning? Have you questioned your own thinking that is contrary to Church teachings? I think you started out in this thread stating you think there is nothing wrong with homosexual relationships and think you are somehow doing a great service to get others to think against the teachings of the Church. You are sadly misguided if you think that is a good thing.
 
Bookcat said:
And such would NOT be any unjust discrimination

and is not what Pope Benedict XVI would have meant in saying anything of that order.

Nor does what Jesus said apply to this.
And such has nothing to do with “judging others”.

If anyone is living in a gravely disordered way --they need to not present themselves for Holy Communion.

Be it a person with homosexual attraction who is living by such or a person engaged in adultery or heterosexual sinful way of living etc etc

Tis not singling out those who are engaged in homosexual relationships.

Paul warned us in fact about “eating and drinking condemnation” to ourselves – in regards to receiving the Holy Eucharist.

Such is in ones better interest not to so receive.
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Ok, look at it another way. Imagine a gay man in a loving relationship. Devout Catholic but in a relationship with another man. He has sexual relations but confesses them every Saturday, then is free of sin for communion on Sunday. Technically, as far as I’m aware, this person can take the Eucharist no problem? But it circumvents church teaching. Is this wrong? Or is it better not to ‘cheat the system’ and live how God made him?
 
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