Practicing martial arts

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Hi everyone,

I’m new to Catholic Answers forum (and to forums in general) so I’d like to take a moment to say “Hi” and thank everyone out there that participates and makes these forums possible.

I have a situation that I have been contemplating for a long time. I was hoping everyone could give me some guidance in this area. Here is my dilemma: I have been practicing martial arts for 17 years now. Over the last 10 years I have become more devoted to the faith and the Church. Now I do not practice any eastern mysticism, nor have I ever, in practicing the martial arts. I take a moment to relax and clear my mind before and after practice, but that is it. ( I know other people who get into meditations, but I have never participated in that) What I wonder about is the aspect of practicing and engraining attacks, defences, throws, holds, chokes, etc into my mind to a degree as to make them become “automatic” (well, that’s the goal anyways). Now I have only used my practice in self defence. That is not a problem. Its the idea of trying to instill it into me that concerns me. Is it healthy spiritually? Is the focus on fighting and violence inherant in martial arts inhibiting my walk with Christ?

I’d really love to hear everyone’s point of view. Any sage advice would also be very much appreciated. God bless! 🙂
 
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ccav:
Now I have only used my practice in self defence. That is not a problem. Its the idea of trying to instill it into me that concerns me. Is it healthy spiritually? Is the focus on fighting and violence inherant in martial arts inhibiting my walk with Christ?

I’d really love to hear everyone’s point of view. Any sage advice would also be very much appreciated. God bless! 🙂
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One of my regular sparring partners in the chancellor of the archdiocese. Sometimes I even let him win. 😛

I think it’s a matter of keeping things in perspective.
 
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squirt:
One of my regular sparring partners in the chancellor of the archdiocese. Sometimes I even let him win. 😛

I think it’s a matter of keeping things in perspective.
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Hmmm…do you get a partial indulgence for letting him win? Ha Ha Ha, just kidding… 👍

Thanks!

What do you think (or anyone else) about the way kata is practiced? The focus of mentally installing imaginary opponents to attack in order to focus the mind to react unequivocally. I think this is what makes me the most unsure. Sometimes I feel this is equivelent to meditating on violence. Thoughts anyone?
 
Whoa… “focus on fighting and violence inherent in martial arts”? What art are you practicing?

When my husband and son began practicing martial arts over 5 years ago, the focus was on self-defense, developing confidence and physical fitness. Maybe this is just the way our instructor taught the art. His main point was NOT to teach his students to be well-trained bullies. As my husband tells his students (he is now a 2nd degree black belt and life-long devout Catholic), “we are teaching you what to do when walking away is not an option”. Emphasis is placed on not putting yourself in situations where you have to resort to violence.

Of course, you must train yourself to react automatically in dangerous situations. When your life is in danger, you don’t have time to think. Part of the training, though, should include learning self-control. There are ways to resolve a conflict without causing physical harm to the assailant.

Let’s think of it this way: do you have to think of every single thing you have to do to drive a car? Or do you just “automatically” do it? Don’t you have defensive driving techniques subconsciously stored in your mind, in case a tire blows out or someone cuts you off in a rainstorm? Of course you do. So why shouldn’t it be all right to have the self-defense training you’ve learned over 17 years on “auto-pilot”, so to speak, in the event you’re ever in a situation that demands it?

And don’t confuse meditation with the New Age practice of visualization, where they believe that imagining something over and over makes it happen. You can practice anything in your mind, so long as you know that just thinking about it isn’t going to accomplish it. And ask God or your patron saint to help you learn to the best of your ability and be able to use the talent God gave you when necessity arises!

I don’t know if this is any help… I just know that I feel better about our family’s safety due to the martial arts. And heavy doses of prayer to our Guardian Angels help, too!

Blue “still a white belt” Rose
 
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ccav:
What do you think (or anyone else) about the way kata is practiced? The focus of mentally installing imaginary opponents to attack in order to focus the mind to react unequivocally. I think this is what makes me the most unsure. Sometimes I feel this is equivelent to meditating on violence. Thoughts anyone?
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I hate kata. And now that I have a really bad hip, I can get out of doing it most of the time. Full stances and kicks are things I’m not supposed to do anymore. 😃

I love sparring. Nothing quite like a few bruises and broken bones. (Accidents happen … and I like sparring with a bit of contact.) 🙂
 
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bluerose:
Whoa… “focus on fighting and violence inherent in martial arts”? What art are you practicing? Blue “still a white belt” Rose
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Forgive me, I don’t think I wrote that very well. What I meant by that was, simply put, it still comes down to the practice of hand to hand combat. There are no kata where you walk away and high ranks do practice more aggressive combat.

That being said, I want to thank you for your post. I appreciate you pointing out the distinction between the meditative and visualization. I’m glad to hear that your husband is a devoted Catholic and still practices enthusiastically. Pray for me that I can overcome this guilty feeling that has come over me so recently.

Thanks Rose!
 
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squirt:
I hate kata. And now that I have a really bad hip, I can get out of doing it most of the time. Full stances and kicks are things I’m not supposed to do anymore. 😃
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My friend Mike feels the same way you do. I actually enjoy it very much. I can really clear my mind from the days stress, BUT I must admit that since I’ve been praying my rosary more often that I have far more satisfaction from that. Not only can I divert my focus to something else, but I feel more at peace. When I divert myself with kata it is more like relaxation. With the rosary it is truely peace. I’m glad the Holy Mother looks out for her kids.
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squirt:
I love sparring. Nothing quite like a few bruises and broken bones. (Accidents happen … and I like sparring with a bit of contact.) 🙂
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Full contact…its the only way to spar!!! 👍
 
We practice “light contact”… which means different things to a white belt than to a black belt! When the black belts get to sparring (point sparring, we’re not trying to hurt each other here), they can be bouncing each other off the walls and ceiling and still consider it “light contact”!:bigyikes:

On occasion, I do think it a good thing to practice muk yum (meditation) to clear your mind before a practice session. Now, to “clear the mind”, I don’t mean it in the New Age mystical sense. I mean, you’re not going to be at your best if your mind is focused on other things, like, “Will the check I wrote at the gas station bounce? Does my son really need braces and will the insurance pay for it? Did I leave the iron on?” etc. etc. It’s like when you go to Mass and you start to meditate and pray about WHY you’re there and leave all the external things that distract you on the back burner for a while.

What art DO you practice anyway? We practice Tae Kwon Do (Tang Soo Do). Some of our newest students (we picked up 20 students in a mountain community 70 miles away that we teach a two-hour class to every weekend) asked our main instructor, “So do you consider what you teach a sport or self-defense?” He answered, “It’s an art. It’s mind and body working together.” This student, mind you, is 70 years old!

We have also had some questions about the traditions we follow in the dojang. Some people wonder why we bow upon entering. It is merely a sign of respect, common in the Orient (you’ll find our black belts bowing as they shake hands in greeting to each other). Some wonder why we insist on the higher belts learning about the history of tae kwon do and our federation (moo duk kwan) and the meaning of the Korean flag. It’s all part of self-discipline (which, I’m sure you’ll agree is a major factor in martial arts) and memory training. A lot of students who start at our school are disconcerted that the emphasis isn’t entirely on sparring and self-defense. Some hate doing forms, but that, again, is a way of learning self-discipline. And it usually throws off the hot-shot kids who always ask the instructors, “so how many fights have you been in?” The answer is always, “None, since I started martial arts training.” A lot of people have unfortunate and incorrect ideas about WHAT the martial arts are all about!:ehh:

Good luck and keep training!

Blue “I’m still a white belt, but then I only started two weeks ago!” Rose:o
 
I do some traditional stuff (Japanese karate … started that way back in the 70s :eek: ) with more fun stuff mixed in (I used to kickbox and grapple when I was a bit younger … I don’t do it with the intensity that I used to, but it’s still fun to go hard once in a while).

During the more ‘ceremonial’ part in the traditional dojo, I take the time to pray a couple of “Glory Be’s”. I find that’s more fulfilling for me than trying to ‘empty’ my mind. 👍
 
I think it depends. I have a friend who was a Hispanic Catholic who had taken up Shao-Lin (sp?). Which is supposed to be some high level form of Kung Fu. They integrate some sort of eastern mysticism in their martial arts. She has since stopped being a Catholic. I think that in that case practicing the martial arts was a bad thing.

However, I had a friend who was being taught Tae-kwan-do (sp?) from a couple of Catholic Korean brothers. So, I guess it depends on the system…though I have no practical experience in the martial arts… only boxing.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future Maronite priest,
Donnchadh
 
Hi Everyone,

I’m pouring some coffee into me this morning to help me collect my thoughts…gulp…there, that’s better!

I have my nidan (2nd degree) in Jujitsu and my sandan (3rd degree) in Shotokan karate. I’ve had some experience in some other styles (Si-Lum, Arnis and Kendo), but have always returned to the other 2.

I definately agree with you Rose about the beginning meditations to clear your mind. Distractions not only interfere with training, but can cause injuries too. Some of the later meditations are great for karate, but I wonder about my spiritual safety. For example: Mizu-no-kokoro (mind like water). Although initially introduced as a calming of the mind during a tense situation (a stand off for example) it has the ring of za-zen practice to it. So my paranoia sets in on this one too. Now I certainly do not have any real knowlege of za-zen, so I don’t know if I am just overreacting. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I’ve seen quite a few students come through who just want to fight. I think only 1 in 20 stick it out the first 6 months. The discipline is paramount. Not only the formal discipline, but the discipline to hang in there when you are tired, discouraged, feel as though you are not progressing, etc. That’s where the building of character comes in. Humility too I think.
 
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dcmac:
I think it depends. I have a friend who was a Hispanic Catholic who had taken up Shao-Lin (sp?). Which is supposed to be some high level form of Kung Fu. They integrate some sort of eastern mysticism in their martial arts. She has since stopped being a Catholic. I think that in that case practicing the martial arts was a bad thing.
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That is too bad for your friend. I don’t know very much about the Shaolin arts, but I’ve heard that they do incorporate the eastern mysticism into their system. Do you know how long your friend has been involved with shaolin?
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dcmac:
However, I had a friend who was being taught Tae-kwan-do (sp?) from a couple of Catholic Korean brothers. So, I guess it depends on the system…though I have no practical experience in the martial arts… only boxing.
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You have a good point there I think. Oh, and I want to just say that in my book boxing is a martial art and I have a great deal of respect for it. My dad and grandpa both boxed. I know they both enjoyed it…and were pretty tough too!!! So how long did you box? How did you feel about it when you were boxing?

I will pray for your vocation…way to go!
 
Our son earned a second-degree Black Belt in karate. It was taught by a strong Christian. They prayed to OUR God before they started. It was a relief to have a Christian overlay. Dr. Timothy M. Brooks is Founder, grew up in Japan, converted to Christianity after nearly dying in a train-car accident. They are based in Florida, ‘Okinawa-based’ – wish I could remember the Proper Name of the style. I was so relieved NOT to have Eastern meditations before class.
 
Great! your are sticking with your faith (ie pray the rosary, pray LOTH, go to Church). I have spent 12 years in the martial arts (Kempo). Make sure that your are learning “BUDO” or “KORYU” (Japnese) or way of the warrior. Schools and organizations claim that they teach this but most teachers are just learning out of a book.

I have also studied Muso Jikiden Eishen Ryu Iaijistu (Swordmanship). That’s Budo! or war art. There are some Jujitsu and Karate styles that teach along these lines too. In other words philosophy and religion are kept seperate from martial training. My teacher in this style was Buddhist but he never pushed his beliefs on us. Unlike some systems that mix religion and philosophy with the art.

Beware of M/A systems that dive deep into asian mystiscism (I-Ching). They call these Temple arts. Some of these arts have been watered down for commercial reasons but some are still active in the old teachings. Your religion or philosophy will have no effect on your fighting ability.

Here is a great link for good Budo. For an example of Bad Budo, see Jailhouse archive. James Mitose. www.e-budo.com.

I also higly recommend adreneline stress training courses and ground fighting.
 
Hey George789!

Thanks for the encouragement and great advice! I’ll be checking out that site too.

God bless!
 
Just one more note: Stay away from Kosho Ryu Kempo; from my experience its a cult!
 
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bluerose:
We practice “light contact”… which means different things to a white belt than to a black belt! When the black belts get to sparring (point sparring, we’re not trying to hurt each other here), they can be bouncing each other off the walls and ceiling and still consider it “light contact”!:bigyikes:

On occasion, I do think it a good thing to practice muk yum (meditation) to clear your mind before a practice session. Now, to “clear the mind”, I don’t mean it in the New Age mystical sense. I mean, you’re not going to be at your best if your mind is focused on other things, like, “Will the check I wrote at the gas station bounce? Does my son really need braces and will the insurance pay for it? Did I leave the iron on?” etc. etc. It’s like when you go to Mass and you start to meditate and pray about WHY you’re there and leave all the external things that distract you on the back burner for a while.

What art DO you practice anyway? We practice Tae Kwon Do (Tang Soo Do). Some of our newest students (we picked up 20 students in a mountain community 70 miles away that we teach a two-hour class to every weekend) asked our main instructor, “So do you consider what you teach a sport or self-defense?” He answered, “It’s an art. It’s mind and body working together.” This student, mind you, is 70 years old!

We have also had some questions about the traditions we follow in the dojang. Some people wonder why we bow upon entering. It is merely a sign of respect, common in the Orient (you’ll find our black belts bowing as they shake hands in greeting to each other). Some wonder why we insist on the higher belts learning about the history of tae kwon do and our federation (moo duk kwan) and the meaning of the Korean flag. It’s all part of self-discipline (which, I’m sure you’ll agree is a major factor in martial arts) and memory training. A lot of students who start at our school are disconcerted that the emphasis isn’t entirely on sparring and self-defense. Some hate doing forms, but that, again, is a way of learning self-discipline. And it usually throws off the hot-shot kids who always ask the instructors, “so how many fights have you been in?” The answer is always, “None, since I started martial arts training.” A lot of people have unfortunate and incorrect ideas about WHAT the martial arts are all about!:ehh:

Good luck and keep training!

Blue “I’m still a white belt, but then I only started two weeks ago!” Rose:o
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Tang Soo from Pittsburgh. 🙂
 
Hey there all,

My husband and I have been studying martial arts for the past 10 yrs., him a little longer. Our style is Kung Fu, more specifically…Liu ho pa fa, Lama, Chi-Gung, tai-chi, chin-na, paqua, and Hsing Yi. We are practicing Catholics whose faith is the center of our lives.
Especially, us being internal artists, you can run into some people who get into the metaphysical and new agey types of things, however, the real art is based on science and physics. And when, you do your meditation, sometimes, what I would do, is focus on Jesus or some aspect of the faith. As far as the fighting and defense aspect, that is fine, too. As I am sure you know, the more you learn, the less you plan on going out and picking a fight, right?!?! 😉 And as far as having to defend yourself and your family, well that is what a mother should do.

BTW, it is neat to have all of us Catholic Martial Artists here.
Take care and may the peace of Christ be with you all! 😃
 
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Monicathree:
My husband and I have been studying martial arts for the past 10 yrs., him a little longer. Our style is Kung Fu, more specifically…Liu ho pa fa, Lama, Chi-Gung, tai-chi, chin-na, paqua, and Hsing Yi.
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Great styles!
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Monicathree:
Especially, us being internal artists, you can run into some people who get into the metaphysical and new agey types of things,
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Aint that the truth!
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Monicathree:
And when, you do your meditation, sometimes, what I would do, is focus on Jesus or some aspect of the faith.
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Thank you for your advice. I’m very happy to see so many strong Catholics who practice martial arts and giving me the advice you all have. I have taken it all and I am going to implement it immediately. Makes me feel alot better knowing that you all have such great faith and yet practice the martial arts.

Thank you 🙂
 
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