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Cracker_Mom
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Would that signify in any way in this situation>>
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HisWill777
Guest
This is what I fear as well. I am looking to learn more about & possibly convert to the Catholic Church, however I hesitate to do this when I hear stories of this type of behavior ignored in the church. I do recognize the Catholic Church as the first and probably the true Church, but why bother when many I know are Catholic and aren’t practicing, the priests and others fall in sin continuously, etc. It’s very frustrating to try and strengthen myself and faith, I’m not sure where to go. This type of thread only disheartens me further."Practising Catholic Gay Couple " is an oxymoronI hope this is a recent & not an ongoing thing. Otherwise I’d have to say the pastor is either blind, has no backbone or chooses to ignore the Church. Much like a local bishop I know :sad_yes:
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JRKH
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I’m sorry to see you disheartened. I would hope that your exposure to Catholics on this website would serve to hearten you, thus somewhat offsetting the sad state of some parts of the Church.
I would also hope that you will come home to the church for what she truly teaches and not how some members distort it.
I pray you will persevere - We need you.
Peace
James
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HisWill777
Guest
Thanks for your kind words and prayer, i need them. I only discovered this site 3 days ago, but yes, I am heartened by many Catholics on here. I guess it’s more the sad state of the world, so it would stand to reason that Catholics and other Christians would fall too.
I have fallen many times, but somehow God stays with me and I keep getting up. I will continue to praise Him and seek Truth and my path in life.
Peace to you too.
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Discerning2
Guest
Stop! All of you! The kindnesses of Christ do not exclude homosexuals. Please know that most priests are highly educated in logic and scratch their heads at the ridiculous logic of the current formulations of the church on homosexuality. I have never heard a priest speak about or google the Canon as much as the lay people do on this blog. Priests are trying to change the world through their love, that’s right love. We should listen to them.
Go out and volunteer. Visit people in jail. Understand hospice. Assist your community by the love you bring to the people in your community. If you want to quibble about kind Catholics observing their faith in the way they know it in their heart, the Church is lessened by your efforts. In this new year, I implore you all to resist your visceral disgust for things you don’t understand in your fellow humans & proceed with love. I guess, friends, pray for understanding & conversion in your heart.
Go out and volunteer. Visit people in jail. Understand hospice. Assist your community by the love you bring to the people in your community. If you want to quibble about kind Catholics observing their faith in the way they know it in their heart, the Church is lessened by your efforts. In this new year, I implore you all to resist your visceral disgust for things you don’t understand in your fellow humans & proceed with love. I guess, friends, pray for understanding & conversion in your heart.
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brittrossiter
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This is the core issue. You should not be listening to priests who “scratch their heads at the ridiculous logic of the current formulations of the church,” whether on the subject of homosexuality or on any other subject. I do not care how educated these priests claim to be, or appear to be. The Church’s formulations of its teaching are not ridiculous. They are infallible. It is prideful to think otherwise. I do not doubt that you have heard priests speak in such a manner, and it is very sad that so many such priests abound. They are leading many good people astray.
You also speak of love. Please explain how it shows love to nod approval to anyone (much less a self-professed Catholic who should know better) who not only engages in patently sinful behavior, substituting their own judgment for that of the Church as to the rightfulness or wrongfulness of homosexual acts, but flaunts it? When I was living in homosexual relationships, which lasted for nearly 13 years, I can count on just three fingers, out of dozens and dozens of friends and family, the number of Christians who showed enough love to confront me directly with courage and say, with charity, that what I was doing was sinful and wrong. That is sad. It took the death of my grandmother to get me back in the doors of a Catholic Church. I’ve since written to two of these folks, thanking them for the love that they showed me and the courage that it must have taken to speak up. (The third is an elderly priest that I do not know how to reach.)
Jason
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brittrossiter
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EmperorNapoleon
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I’ve known some couples in our community, with and without children, who are celibate. Introducing someone as your life partner doesn’t necessarily mean that the couple engages in sexual relations. It means that they love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together. What they do behind closed doors is between them, God, and the priest hearing their confessions.
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pnewton
Guest
Priests are right and the Church is ridiculous???:whacky:
Why do you assume that the faithful Catholics here do not already do this. Why is it they that need the conversion because they accept the Church’s teaching on homosexualilty.
No, having relations with those of the same gender, children or animals all is sinful. Now for sure, this should not serve as hinderance for pursing God through the Catholic faith. We all have our sins to deal with. However, such ones must not be in postion of leadership in the Catholic parish as it is a scandal. This is not being judgemental. This is Church teaching.
It is no act of charity to allow people to justify moral sin and end up in Hell so that we can be poliltically correct and pat ourselves on the back for being “loving.”
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Edwardjohn
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Amen! We cannot save ourselves, we can only do the best we can in living a life that is “holy and pleasing to God.” We can always serve. Praise be to God for the Lord Jesus Christ who saves us! The requirements have been met, we are free to love and serve the Lord. And He…is in the least of them.
However, I disagree that “priest are highly educated in logic” and that they are “trying to change the world through their love.” Their behavior is just as illogical as ours and they are, for the most part, administrators of the sacraments. But we are all the body of Christ and have a function.
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OraLabora
Guest
Bingo.
I can give you an excellent example of this sort of situation: my mother and aunt. When my father died 39 years ago, my mother (and I as I was only 12) moved in with my spinster aunt for financial reasons as my mother was too poor to continue living on her own. My mother had been married 16 years when my father died, and she lived with my aunt for 30 years. They were inseparable, and supported each other in all the ways a loving couple would, except for sex. They passed away within a year of each other, my aunt being very lonely after my mother died.
There is this modern notion, brought to you by the popular media, that love = having sex with… and nothing is further from the truth.
In most cases of people I see doing things that seem at odds with the Church, I find that MYOB is the best policy. The Church teaching is a teaching of perfection. Unfortunately none of us fit that mold perfectly. We all vary from perfection to a greater or lesser degree. For me, my faith is a way to try to bring myself closer to that perfection, letting others, especially strangers or people I am not close to, sort it out themselves.
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Cracker_Mom
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Thank you & God bless you.
True charity speaks the truth & acts in love.We shouldn’t be afraid to profess our beliefs but it needs to be expressed in love, otherwise folks just turn away when they perceive self righteousness.
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JRKH
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Well said, but while Christ certainly Loves the person with homosexual tendencies, do you think he loves the Sin of acting on that tendency??
God also loves the child abuser and the fornicator. Just because God loves these people, does that mean we should change the church Laws to allow such activity?
Of the posts I have read on this thread, I have not seen any that said the homosexual persons themselves should be kicked out, but rather their sin (if their is one) should not be tolerated.
If the only way they would choose to remain “catholic” is if the parish/church accepts their sin, then they need to leave the Church for this she must not do.
Yes they are highly educated. They also took a vow of obedience to the Church and Her teachings. Certainly if they feel that things should be changed they have proper channels by which to express this.
Their education does NOT give them the right to teach the faithful contrary beliefs to those determined by the Magisterium of Holy Mother Church.
Perhaps they should.
And I prais God for our many and devoted Priests. Yes we should listen to them. But when they teach something that is blatently agianst the teaching of the magisterium we need to call them on it in The Love of Fraternal Correction. (See Mt 18:15-18)
Nicely said and very applicable as well to those who feel that espousing a form of “Protestant Catholicism”, or Cafeteria Catholicism is acceptable. Pray for the Guidance of God to understand why the church teaches as she does. For the Humility of obedience to the Teachings of God in The Church.
We do not wish to quibble. We wish for the Church, Laity and Clergy alike, to show that Kind of Unity espoused by Christ when He prayed that we be “One as He and the Father Are One”
Finally I woudl say that we wish, in this new year, that, though our Loving efforts in the world, the world be more changed toward Christ in The Church, than The Church be changed toward the world.
Peace
James
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LittleOne1
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Well said JRKH. This is not a rejection of people who have this tendency; its a rejection of the sin and people who openly live this way (or use language that is scandolous today “life partner” of two men living together- I am sorry, but no one on this board can with deny that this is the logical conclusion we can come to today with that language) or act in such a way to cause scandal (until they clear up the matter to show otherwise) cannot be celebrated in the parish because this confuses people since they have been open about what they are doing in their lives. This would be the same for a person who has gotten a divorce and remmaried; we should not place them in a situation in which we celebrate them instead of calling them to change their ways. When the parish does this, people start to assume that this really is not wrong. This is exactly the problem in some parishes because their spiritual leader wants to toe the line as far as what the world thinks is right so that they are liked. I am sorry, but encouraging a lifestyle that has its end in a sexual relationship as selfish tendencies and filled with a desire (of taking in a sexuality they already poses) that never gets fulfilled (hence why homosexuals have more partners on average over a lifetime and less fidelity with the partner they have then a heterosexual person). They may be able to love one another in other ways like friends can, but the actual sexual relatioship is devoid of the gift of self that is only found properly between married couples and those that are open to life.
The Church and through programs like COURAGE actually is the one who cares the most about these individuals by seeking to help an individual carry this cross and find the peace of Christ in a loving relationship with him. Unfortunately political actions in the American Psychiatry Association (as well as US Government) and others in the 60’s and 70’s along with the break down in the family and the meaning of sexuality has lead us to where we are today; not “logical” or scientifically sound research.
The Church and through programs like COURAGE actually is the one who cares the most about these individuals by seeking to help an individual carry this cross and find the peace of Christ in a loving relationship with him. Unfortunately political actions in the American Psychiatry Association (as well as US Government) and others in the 60’s and 70’s along with the break down in the family and the meaning of sexuality has lead us to where we are today; not “logical” or scientifically sound research.
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Newbie2
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Seems to me that there are a couple of principles in play here:
- That there are two people who are making the appearance, at the very least, of actively practicing homosexuals, which appears to be in what some are considering an “in your face” manner.
It is impossible to believe that they are unaware that their continued proclamation is not the source for Scandal.
That’s one issue.
- The other is that of “Judgment”. EJ says we have no right to judge, and in a sense is correct. However, we have every right to discern and correct our brothers and sisters when they fall; not in a judmental manner, but in a loving correction such as what the Lord himself might do. Paul preaches this principle throughout his letters.
In this particular case, it’s up to the Priest to decide how to handle this and the Bishop if the Priest decides not to deal with it himself. At the very least, IMHO, the priest needs to meet with these guys and discuss the appearance of Scandal.
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momor
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If I was a member of this parish and was scandalized by this situation (which I would be), I would talk about it in confession with the pastor. I would tell him that I can’t help wondering about the situation and I’m concerned that my wondering might be leading to a sin against charity.
At the very least, I will have let the priest know that I am scandalized and will have satisfied my responsibility to let him know. It will provide an opportunity for dialogue with the priest and perhaps I will gain some understanding that will ease my mind (or not).
At the very least, I will have let the priest know that I am scandalized and will have satisfied my responsibility to let him know. It will provide an opportunity for dialogue with the priest and perhaps I will gain some understanding that will ease my mind (or not).
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Cracker_Mom
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And I am hoping that my relative in that diocese has done that.Good advice.
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Discerning2
Guest
Happy New Year & Peace to all.
You bring up a point that I think needs to be mentioned on infallibility. The churches teaching is not wholly infallible. There are only 2 instances of papal infallibility & we know the magistrarium is infallible. Yes, the supreme teaching on faith & morals is seated in Rome, but to suggest that all teaching is infallible is simply incorrect. And there is a coolness to this. It means our church is alive & can change. As remote of a possibility as it is, there may come a time where issues of homosexuality may be more maturely treated in accordance with natural law. I know many are praying for this.
Look, I am no rainbow flag waving liberal. We are addressing a specific question on the treatment of a gay couple at this kind person’s parish. In this case, I will always error on the side of charity. As a practical matter, should this kind person prosecute one portion of the canon & ignore others that implore support?
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that_name
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I’d speak to the Priest outside of the Confessional. He may be unaware of the “couple” language, he may be unaware of the scandal - if you speak to him outside of the Confessional, he can deal with those causing scandal. If you do it inside the box, he must keep it private and cannot correct those causing scandal.
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Elizabeth502
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Bingo.
Everyone’s essential emotional nature is to love. Everyone’s essential biological nature is to copulate.
If Discerning2 believes that gays have a more difficult time of it in that department, then he believes that gays are hyper-sexed or over-sexed or however you want to put it – which is a prejudice both against gays and against straights.
Ascetism and amorousness run the gamut throughout the entire population and orientations. I admire those who are able to control their passions (sexual, anger, avarice, whatever), not those who may not have temptation/passion – or the resources/graces to resist those to begin with.
No one here knows how much any person with SSA suffers or doesn’t suffer, vs. a chaste straight single lay person, vs. a chaste straight cleric, etc.
I also happen not to believe that SSA = “essential nature,” but I won’t hijack the thread.
Our overarching essential nature is to love God.
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