Praise and Worship choruses during Mass

[FrDavid96]

Without any discussion or accusation regarding the quality of formation or teaching of young people, or any “post-VII” commentary, this is what our young people are coming to the table with. Who wouldn’t consider Lord, I Lift Your Name on High if it gets the young people into church and singing?

… But does it?

I don’t dispute that such is what they are coming to the Table “with”, but I do seriously question, is it what they are coming to the table “for?”

The other half of that question is to ask, what will keep them coming back? Young people today have so many other options to be entertained (indeed too many). What will keep them coming back is the knowledge that no where else will they have the opportunity for the salvation of their souls. If Masses become (as they sadly have in so many parishes) just one more form of entertainment, people will easily choose to seek their entertainment elsewhere.

If grandparents do nothing more than hand out candy to their grandchildren, will they keep coming back? Surely, they will. But eventually that will wear off, especially once the children are able to buy their own candy. But if the grandparents are offering them love and truth and guidance, the children might be a little jealous of their friends who get nothing but candy, but when the hard times come, and difficult decisions have to be made, we know which grandparents won’t be getting the visits.

There is a time and place for everything. There is a time and place when young people should indeed look to their parish church for wholesome entertainment. But the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass just isn’t it.

 

[MusicMan]

Alas, FatherDavid, I have no answer for the questions you propose. Unfortunately, the answers are not within my knowledge base. I only hope that those who do have the knowledge, training, and experience to answer the questions you pose can use the information in my post to aid their guidance and choices.

 

[FrDavid96]

Alas, FatherDavid, I have no answer for the questions you propose. Unfortunately, the answers are not within my knowledge base. I only hope that those who do have the knowledge, training, and experience to answer the questions you pose can use the information in my post to aid their guidance and choices.

You do have the musical expertise (or you’re a good actor [laughs]) We all hope, we pray, we do our best. And yes, this thread of yours is itself one of the signs of that hope.

 

[FrDavid96]

The million dollar question, I guess, is what is going on in Catholic parishes?

Why does the OP have to face a steady diet of praise-and-worship songs that would be appropriate in a nondenominational protestant service down the street while the hymnals gather dust?

Why does the music director at my geographical parish think a rock band is appropriate for Sunday mass?

Why does another person worry about the Billy-Joel-style-showtune mass that is driving them from their parish?

I don’t think any of us are so particular that we’re demanding only Gregorian chant or Latin motets.

And to answer your first question, what is going on, is a realization that models of the past 40 years or so are showing themselves to be the failures that they are. The younger generation(s) are full of promise and hope. They are hungering for Truth, and nothing will stand in Its way. It’s a slow process, but it’s happening. Our current group of seminarians and newly ordained priests are a living testament to that. God bless them!

 

[JPUSC]

The million dollar question, I guess, is what is going on in Catholic parishes?

Why does the OP have to face a steady diet of praise-and-worship songs that would be appropriate in a nondenominational protestant service down the street while the hymnals gather dust?

Why does the music director at my geographical parish think a rock band is appropriate for Sunday mass?

Why does another person worry about the Billy-Joel-style-showtune mass that is driving them from their parish?

I don’t think any of us are so particular that we’re demanding only Gregorian chant or Latin motets.

Interestingly, why does the Orthodox or mainline Protestant church across the street use hymns hundreds of years old while the local Catholic church feels it necessary to hold a free rock concert every Sunday?

 

[elts1956]

It is a shame, especially when one looks at the many documents coming out of Rome dealing with liturgical music.

I can remember singing “Shout to the Lord” and “Lord I Lift Your Name on High” when I was a protestant. Nice songs to sing in your car or at home, or even at a non-liturgical gathering … but totally inappropriate for mass.

You’ve got to wonder what is going on in the heads of some music directors.

Or priests? Wouldn’t they have the final say?

 

[elts1956]

It is a shame, especially when one looks at the many documents coming out of Rome dealing with liturgical music.

I can remember singing “Shout to the Lord” and “Lord I Lift Your Name on High” when I was a protestant. Nice songs to sing in your car or at home, or even at a non-liturgical gathering … but totally inappropriate for mass.

You’ve got to wonder what is going on in the heads of some music directors.

Once you begin to disqualify based on theological or catechatical improprieties, one will find that all we are left with is solid hymns and (relatively) tasteful contemporary songs.

At my wedding in the 60s, I wanted the Ave Maria sung. I was told it wasn’t appropriate. When I pointed out that it was sung at Jackie Kennedy’s wedding, I was told, “Well, that was different”. Was this the beginning of the end of people believing there are absolutes taught by the church. Sorry just coming off one of the election threads and I am suspicious of everyone.

 

[myroneffing]

Lord I Lift Your Name on High?? My God, that’s a favorite of the Word Faith protestant church I attended for awhile! It’s disturbing. Don’t get me wrong- I like Christian rock, punk, and metal. But I wouldn’t want to hear it at Mass! Why can’t they have a regular mass, and then maybe a separate ‘praise & worship’ thing afterward, at least? As young as I am, I still don’t want Mass to be ‘spiced up’ with modern music. I want it to feel as solemn and prayerful as possible. I’m going to worship God, not hear a rock concert or otherwise be ‘entertained’.

I also wish I had an answer to the question about what Catholics can do to “enjoy” Christian music together–but not at mass–Has anyone had any experience with additional music programs at Catholic churches, like sing-along evening concerts or something?

 

[JPUSC]

At my wedding in the 60s, I wanted the Ave Maria sung. I was told it wasn’t appropriate. When I pointed out that it was sung at Jackie Kennedy’s wedding, I was told, “Well, that was different”. Was this the beginning of the end of people believing there are absolutes taught by the church. Sorry just coming off one of the election threads and I am suspicious of everyone.

I heard the “Ave Maria” (Schubert and Bach) versions weren’t allowed to be sung at Mass pre-Vatican II because of their secular operatic origins.

 

[Phemie]

I heard the “Ave Maria” (Schubert and Bach) versions weren’t allowed to be sung at Mass pre-Vatican II because of their secular operatic origins.

In my case it was the priest’s personal taste that dictated that Ave Maria not be sung at a wedding – in 1975.

I have little memory of the event: I remember what was sung but for the life of me I cannot remember a reading, a homily or anything else. We didn’t have a Mass since DH is not Catholic but I also do not remember a Liturgy of the Word, just us walking up the aisle, then going into the sanctuary to speak our consent and exchange rings.

I recall that the pastor never gave any guideline about the music (except that I knew from a girl who’d married just a few months before that he had forbidden “Ave Maria”) and my choices were so inappropriate as to make me want to throw up now that I know better. But I’d just picked 3 songs from the repertoire offered to me by a soloist who sang at most Catholic marriages so I was under the impression that all she offered was approved. WRONG!!

 

[MusicMan]

Interestingly, why does the Orthodox or mainline Protestant church across the street use hymns hundreds of years old while the local Catholic church feels it necessary to hold a free rock concert every Sunday?

What is the statistical breakdown though?

The Lutheran church I play for has a congregation of 350. Sunday attendance averages 65 people. Maybe 12 of those are kids who aren’t yet high school age. Maybe two of those 65 are high school students.

There is a nice Byzantine Rite parish that I go to when visiting my in-laws. Probably 500 in the congregation, and maybe 200 at the English DL. Maybe 30 kids, although more of HS age, in attendance.

 

[FrDavid96]

I also wish I had an answer to the question about what Catholics can do to “enjoy” Christian music together–but not at mass–Has anyone had any experience with additional music programs at Catholic churches, like sing-along evening concerts or something?

Such a thing would be perfectly fine, so long as the program is in keeping with the dignity of the place. I would even go so far as to say that it would not have to be religious music, strictly speaking. Example: if the US Marine Corps Chorus (or whatever the proper name would be) performed a patriotic recital in a church, that would certainly be dignified. I use that only as an extreme example to make the point.

Outside of the Mass, and outside of the Church’s public Liturgy, the church may be used for a dignified purpose.

 

[MusicMan]

I’m not sure the Marine’s have a chorus. You certainly wouldn’t want the President’s Own Marine Band, though, the sonic damage they could cause in a Catholic church with boomy acoustics… oh, the sound would be glorious, but deafening and presumably destructive.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**If music is theologically sound, then its use is OK, **

I assume you mean TEXT, not music.

 

[MusicMan]

The use of the word “music” in that context refers to the entirety of the work, which would include the text.

 

[stanthonyserver]

This really isn’t to post an opinion, I just thought you might be interested in this excerpt:

’On Eagle’s Wings’ tops all songs in online liturgical music survey
By Mark Pattison
Catholic News Service

WASHINGTON (CNS) – “On Eagle’s Wings,” the musical reworking of the 91st Psalm by Father Michael Joncas, topped all other songs in an online poll asking which liturgical song most fostered and nourished the respondent’s life.

Two songs made popular by the St. Louis Jesuits – “Here I Am, Lord” and “Be Not Afraid” – came in second and third, followed by “You Are Mine,” by David Haas.

The online poll was sponsored by the National Association of Pastoral Musicians. The poll was featured last year in an issue of its membership magazine, Pastoral Music, and announcements about the poll were distributed to diocesan newspapers in an effort to get the (name removed by moderator)ut of “rank-and-file Catholics,” said J. Michael McMahon, the association’s president.

In the poll, respondents could vote for only one song. No songs were listed on the Web site to give them suggestions. About 3,000 people took part in the poll.

Of the 25 liturgical music songs mentioned most, songs written after the Second Vatican Council took not only the top four positions, but six of the top nine, and 12 of the top 25. The fourth-ranked song, “You Are Mine,” received 138 votes, 81 percent more votes than the fifth-ranked song, “How Great Thou Art,” which got 76.

McMahon, in a telephone interview with Catholic News Service, cautioned against the notion that post-Vatican II music has dominance over all other liturgical music. “We got 670 different songs mentioned,” he said. “Even the top choice is only 8 percent of the total,” or 242 votes. (emphasis mine)

 

[snhs]

Sorry but that survey is absolutely worthless when it comes down to making an unbiased determination. Apart from anything else the group who responded were self selecting and was entirely dependent on who is a member of that group or someone reading the Diocesan newspaper. It’s hardly surprising that the songs they voted for in the poll mirror the music they choose for Mass.

In addition those who have preferences for music prior to VII have a wide variety of truly great hymns to choose from so their choices, although we could expect them to coalesce around classic hymns, are likely to be more varied. Most of the people attending Church today, even if they are going week in week out, will still not hear those hymns anything vaguely resembling regularly.

 

[jfallaw]

I hope this isn’t too much of a thread-jack here, but this is something I’ve been wondering for a while…

I understand that the Mass is supposed to be solemn. So I understand previous poster’s issues with praise & worship-type songs in Mass.

But do Catholics ever sing these? I grew up in a Protestant church, singing some of the songs mentioned. Some of them have theological issues with Catholic faith; others do not. Some are quite excellent and could be compatible with Catholic faith.

So, is the main concern that they are sung in Mass or is it that they are sung at all?

I do. I love Third Day, Casting Crowns, Kutless, Red, Family Force Five- lots of contemporary Christian stuff.

 

[kage_ar]

If these binders contain photocopies, you may have a simple method to rid yourself of the problem by reporting your parish to the publisher(s) for copyright infringement.

Have you verified that your Parish is making these copies and binders legally?

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
No drums. No bongos. No electric guitar or electric piano. No saxophone solos,**

**Is there any intrinsic difference between a saxophonoe solo and an organ solo?

And is there any kind of bongo that is NOT a drum? And what’s the difference between drums and altar bells, so beloved of traditionalists? They are both percussion instruments.**