Praise Music Sounding Secular

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About the only instrument that should be played in a Catholic church is the organ. Others have profane associations and/or the music played tends to the folksy, sentimental, simple-minded or Protestantised.

I’m glad there’s no place in the TLM for pop musicians. They help make the O.F./N.O. mass look ludicrous.

Imagine the re-enactment of the terrible and awesome sacrifice of Calvary, a propitiary act for our sins, then “2 …3 … 4. Bind us together, Lord, bind us together … tum tee tum … bop bop bop”.

It’s part of a trend to bowdlerise the Mass. Remove any sombre or exclusive elements, then wonder why people behave casually at it.
 
Layman said:
About the only instrument that should be played in a Catholic church is the organ. Others have profane associations and/or the music played tends to the folksy, sentimental, simple-minded or Protestantised.

I’m glad there’s no place in the TLM for pop musicians. They help make the O.F./N.O. mass look ludicrous.

Imagine the re-enactment of the terrible and awesome sacrifice of Calvary, a propitiary act for our sins, then “2 …3 … 4. Bind us together, Lord, bind us together … tum tee tum … bop bop bop”.

It’s part of a trend to bowdlerise the Mass. Remove any sombre or exclusive elements, then wonder why people behave casually at it.
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Is it your opinion that if there is no organist available and no singer/conductor capable of leading or singing Gregorian chant, the Masses should be without music?

Do you think that the Catholic Church teaches this?
 
  • If the music produced is folksy and sentimental, then yes.
  • If the hymns refer to ‘me and I’ instead of ‘us and we’, then yes.
  • If the singer(s) and musicians are to the fore instead of being tucked back up in the choir-loft, then yes.
  • If bass-guitars and drums are involved, then yes.
  • If the choir consistently hits bum notes, then yes.
Bad music is worse than no music; it affects the emotions. The atmosphere proper to a sacred and mysterious rite is gone.

You’ve got to put a bit of effort in. It’s a poor Church indeed that can’t rise to even one Gregorian chant cantor, especially with the advent of the internet and cheap home organs or PC-based ones available, to learn the basic hymns.

It will be a good day when the Catholic faithful realise once again that The Mass is not about them; it’s about Him, and what He wants. Nothing is too good for him, we need to propritiate our God and a lot of music produced in churches just isn’t good enough.
 
I agree completely! We have recently gotten a new music director in our parish. He has decided he needs to be front and center alongside the altar. Many in our churches resent the intrusion into the sacred mysteries. It has become more like a pep rally. Mass is not supposed to be about the music.
 
Layman said:
  • If the music produced is folksy and sentimental, then yes.
  • If the hymns refer to ‘me and I’ instead of ‘us and we’, then yes.
  • If the singer(s) and musicians are to the fore instead of being tucked back up in the choir-loft, then yes.
  • If bass-guitars and drums are involved, then yes.
  • If the choir consistently hits bum notes, then yes.
Bad music is worse than no music; it affects the emotions. The atmosphere proper to a sacred and mysterious rite is gone.

You’ve got to put a bit of effort in. It’s a poor Church indeed that can’t rise to even one Gregorian chant cantor, especially with the advent of the internet and cheap home organs or PC-based ones available, to learn the basic hymns.

It will be a good day when the Catholic faithful realise once again that The Mass is not about them; it’s about Him, and what He wants. Nothing is too good for him, we need to propritiate our God and a lot of music produced in churches just isn’t good enough.
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Well, then, I guess we have a poor parish indeed. Not one Gregorian chanter out of 7000 people. And only about a dozen organists in the city of 150,000, and all of those organists who are in the Guild are boycotting our parish because we fired an openly-gay music minister five years ago.

Honestly, now, layman, if you walked into Mass at our parish, would you truly be upset to see me playing the piano for Mass? If you attended the 11:00 “folk Mass,” would you truly be upset to see a choir singing folk songs accompanied by a folk orchestra of guitars and drums? Why do you suppose it’s probably the second-most crowded of the nine Sunday Masses that our parish offers? Do you honestly claim that ALL of these people have a flaw in their religion because they prefer folk music to traditional, or no music at all? Do you honestly think our pastor and the parochial vicars are in rebellion against the Church because they allow such music?

The Church does not forbid folk music in Mass.

And I think you are really really stretching it to assume that because people sing contemporary music, they think that the Holy Mass is all about them. That is a very harsh judgement and IMO, an incorrect one. How do you know what is in the hearts of the people? How can you make this kind of judgement?

I know many of these Catholics, and they are definitely on the path to sainthood. Many of them have been Catholics all their lives–they didn’t fall away after Vatican II like so many Catholics did. They stuck it out and continued to submit to Holy Mother Church with docility and humility. These are Catholics indeed, and the fact that they actually like folk and other forms of contemporary music does not negate their holiness or reverence.

And when you pray the Psalms, you can see that many of them refer to “I” and “me.” The Holy Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Our Lord on the cross. I don’t think it’s self-centered to say, “I am in awe of You, God” or “I praise You, Lord Jesus, for your sacrifice” or “I love You, Lord” or “I caused all His pain.”

Finally, to condemn a choir because they keep hitting bum notes is elitist. Unless the choir is deliberately making mistakes to humiliate the Lord and the Church, you have no right to condemn a group of volunteers and a very poorly-paid conductor who are offering their talent and doing the best they can to heartily serve the Lord and His Church.
 
Try to see the path the Church has taken post Vat. II:
  • Dump Latin and have the Mass in the local lingo;
  • Dump Gregorian chant and have cheesy hymns;
  • Silence the organ and have a band in;
  • Get the laity, in plain clothes, into the sanctuary;
  • Let lay people handle the Host;
  • Introduce ‘inclusive’ translations of the Bible;
  • The priest turns his back on the symbolic East, where symbolically Christ is/was, and where the sun rises;
  • The priest faces the sinners and it looks, symbolically, like he’s performing for them;
  • Build bare churches and strip out existing ones;
  • Put kiddy pictures and banners on the walls;
  • Replace traditional, meaningful images and statues with highly stylized ones with no such connotations;
  • Play down sin, Hell and damnation;
  • Play up ‘Love’ (caritas?) and Mercy and play down Judgement.
Now, one or two of these taken individually might not seem significant. They won’t all, I hope, appear together, in many churches, but a goodly number will, over time, in many churches.

The effect?: an erosion of faith.

A massive break with the past in the 1970’s and still more novelties attempted over the past twenty years e.g. CITH, EMHCs in the sanctuary, liturgical dancing.

How can a grown man take such effeminate antics seriously? And thus the Church declines.

I used to be a pop musician. Bum notes make people squirm or supress giggles. Folksy hymns and instruments have the wrong connotations for a sacred rite. I was looking around for a pious mass in my home town a couple of years ago. Walked into the church before Mass - people chatting, loudly. Not good.

There was a large crucifix well to the side of the altar, not really the focus, but maybe …

Then I saw a few teens with guitars and such, up front, to the side of the sanctuary. I made my exit.

Now, I had been to this church before, at Christmas, and was startled to hear new-age-style muzak or a hymn unknown to me being piped over the sound system during the Mass, so I wasn’t basing my assessment on just one visit. There were other churches in the town, so I found the least modernist one, and went to that.

I really, really, pray it doesn’t take some disaster to wake people up as to how the Lord of Creation should be worshipped; on His terms, to the very best of our ability like he demanded of Moses and the Israelites, rather than passing, mundane, easy-going fashions.

Is it the case that people picture Jesus like they do Santa Claus; a kind of cartoon character and not as real as you and I? I had a notion that might be it. You can play around with the liturgy if that is what’s in the back of your mind, I suppose.
 
Taken on it’s own, the music wouldn’t be such a big deal. But added to:
  • CITH;
  • EMHcs;
  • The priest facing the people;
  • Unvested lay people in the sanctuary;
  • Bare churches;
  • Children’s banners in the church;
  • The local language, instead of Latin;
  • Stylised, minimalist religious symbols, instead of traditional ones;
  • Little or no mention of sin, Hell, death and damnation;
… and you have a rite that will not be taken as seriously as a TLM. Why? Because those officiating don’t seem to be taking it too seriously and the church, over time, looks more like a meeting hall. Even the barrier separating the sanctuary from the rest of the church is gone; another cue that something special is taking place, removed.

In the TLM both the priest and the people are facing the East, the host, the crucifix and the tabernacle. In the O.F. the priest and people face each other. Or the priest and the band face the people. It looks more like they’re giving a performance and the congregation is the audience.

So people chat in church and dress casually. They don’t go to confession because the dire consequences of dying in a state of mortal sin are not preached to them. Folksy hymns and a band up front add more mundane elements. They change the atmosphere. Hit a few bum notes and people have to resist the urge to giggle or grimace.

Despite what people think, none of this was mandated by the Second Vatican Council.
 
I have one encounter with the devil, I prayed to God for help and a singing came to aid. It was a chant. Its like a psalm, the persecuting devil left me. Since then. I sing chant and psalm in the ministry of deliverance. Its one of my powerful toll.
 
Having come back to this thread … the original topic is ‘praise music sounding secular’. How did this morph into a thread on LITURGICAL music (which is different altogether to ‘praise’ music, which need not be liturgical at all).

In terms of non-liturgical music, well, some of what I’ve listened to recently reminds me of the episode of South Park (was a fan before I reverted, no longer watch it) where Cartman sought fame and fortune with a Christian rock band.

Something to the effect of ‘just take any love song, take the word ‘baby’ out and replace it with the word ‘Jesus’ and there you have it!’ And yes, unfortunately a fair amount of praise music does indeed seem to show that same level of lyrical and musical sophistication.
 
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