Pray for Notre Dame -- Moral Chaos sweeps campus

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During the week of October 10-14, students at the prominent Catholic University of Notre Dame faced another assault against traditional Catholic morality on campus: the pro-homosexual “National Coming Out Day.” For more details on how you can prayerfully protest, visit:

tfp.org/student_action/activities/protests/nd_protest.htm

“The sins which lead most souls to hell are sins of the flesh!”
~ Blessed Jacinta Marto
 
This is really sad to see at a “Catholic” school. There’s a crisis at these institutions that has to be dealt with. How can universities like this call themselves Catholic? Where has the orthodoxy and faithfullness to the Magisterium gone? They need our prayers. 😦

“I tell my relatives to send their children to non-Catholic universities where they will have to fight for their faith, rather than to a Catholic university where it will be stolen from them.”

-Fulton Sheen
 
People follow where their leaders lead. In the case of Notre Dame, outgoing President Fr Edward Malloy led Catholics down the garden path.

I have posted some background information

here and also here.

In my opinion more than prayer is necessary. Bishop D’Arcy needs to know clearly that Catholics feel betrayed by Notre Dame’s position on Catholic teaching. The Cardinal Newman Society also needs to know. Cardinal Levada needs to know. And your Papal Nuncio needs to know. The local media needs to know also. It is better to go with local media, because the MSM is so sewn up with heterodoxy.
 
What is happening and being allowed to happen at Notre Dame just makes me ill, and I will mince no words about it.

Presidents Malloy and Jenkins as well as Bishop D’Arcy are equally to blame for the moral licentiousness that is corrupting the minds and souls of the student body, many of whom are Catholic. I for one no longer consider Notre Dame to be a Catholic university, until such time action is taken to put an end to activities gravely at odds with Catholic moral teaching.

I exhort anyone of concern to email or write anyone of the following:

Rev. Fr. John I. Jenkins, C.S.C., President
University of Notre Dame
317 Main Building
Notre Dame, IN 46556
Email: Jenkins.1@nd.edu

Dr. Thomas G. Burish, Provost
University of Notre Dame
300 Main Building
Notre Dame, IN 46556
Email: tburish@nd.edu or provost@nd.edu

The Most Reverend John M D’Arcy
Bishop of Fort Wayne / South Bend Indiana USA
mschott@fwdiocese.fwsb.org
Fort Wayne Chancery
1103 S. Calhoun Street
Fort Wayne, IN 46801
diocesefwsb.org/

The Most Reverend Gabriel Montalvo
Nunciature to United States of America
3339 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W, Washington, DC 20008
Fax: 337-4036
 
I’m not sure how much any of you are going to take me seriously, but I’m a student here at ND, and I definitely do not feel that “moral chaos” is “sweeping” our campus.

Sure, we have our problems. The Queer Film Festival, Coming Out Week, the Vagina Monologues… but I think a lot of you only see that those events happen here, but fail to notice that there is a quite vocal portion of the student body here that agrees with you and will stand up and say that these events are not appropriate at a Catholic university.

As a few examples… “Coming Out Week” basically passed here with very little interest. One day was supposed to include a unified showing on the part of the student body, wearing orange “Gay? Fine by me.” t-shirts… I saw, maybe, 5 all day. There was a “rally” of about 50 people on Friday afternoon… very little attention paid by the students, really. Either people aren’t vocal in their support of the issue, are apathetic, or really oppose it.

Also, there are voices of reason here, many stemming from the students themselves. For example… check out www.irishrover.net. It’s an “independent, Catholic, conservative” paper on campus, expressing a conservative voice that needs to be heard. We have other conservative Catholic groups on campus… the largest university Right to Life club, the Orestes Brownson Council, Knights of Columbus, Knights of the Immaculata, Children of Mary…

Could the administration be doing more, differently? Yes. But our university is struggling with what it means to be a great Catholic one… And if you look, past, the “Gender Relations Council” or liberal academic departments, you can find the great Catholic University here… I know I have.
 
Could the administration be doing more, differently? Yes. But our university is struggling with what it means to be a great Catholic one… And if you look, past, the “Gender Relations Council” or liberal academic departments, you can find the great Catholic University here… I know I have.
give me a break. “struggling with what it means to be catholic” is the lamest excuse i’ve ever heard. who wrote this, fr. mcbride?? how is notre dame any different then a public shool? you can start a conservative catholic club at a public school too and you’ll save lots of money.

you can’t have it both ways, either you are 100% catholic or you are 100% secular. at least with a secular school you know where the school stands. this kind of garbage only perpetuates confusion and harms the faith. ignorant catholics will get the impression that morality is gray and we really do not know right from wrong.

i would never send my kid to that apostate of a college. especially with that terrible football team. that school makes me sick.
 
If Notre Dame became a famous Catholic university, it was BECAUSE it was faithful the Catholic Church and Its principles. What will make Notre Dame dishonorable is the cancer of moral relativism and the open promotion of the homosexual agenda, even while along side very nice events like you mention.

However, if the cancer of sexual aberration is not removed, what will happen?

Someone might object, but if most of the body is still sound, “why should I worry about it?”

The answer is simple, dear friend. In a matter of time, Notre Dame will be unrecognizable. The time to stand up and fight is now. Wimpy, milk-toast Catholics will not stop the radical minority on campus if they concentrate on fooling themselves that things “aren’t that bad.” If the good don’t stand up and fight like crusaders, in a matter of time, all will be lost.

The Catholic priests at Notre Dame will have a lot to account for.
 
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JSmitty2005:
This is really sad to see at a “Catholic” school.
I don’t think Notre Dame has been a Catholic school since the late 60s or early 70s at best. There are, to be sure, pockets of orthodox Catholics attending the school.
 
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Rach620:
It’s an “independent, Catholic, conservative” paper on campus, expressing a conservative voice that needs to be heard. We have other conservative Catholic groups on campus.
Very nice, Rach, but as a liberal I’m not impressed by conservative life on campus, whether the members are Catholics or Protestants. I’d rather see orthodox Catholic groups, with kids of both political persuasions as members.
 
John R:
The answer is simple, dear friend. In a matter of time, Notre Dame will be unrecognizable. The time to stand up and fight is now. Wimpy, milk-toast Catholics will not stop the radical minority on campus if they concentrate on fooling themselves that things “aren’t that bad.” If the good don’t stand up and fight like crusaders, in a matter of time, all will be lost.
I’m surely not saying that the good shouldn’t stand up and fight; I’m saying that so many of you have apparently given up on ND, deeming us here 100% secular, when there are so many here attempting to fight the good fight and prevent us from becoming completely secularized.

Realistically, let’s look at the situation of great universities in America… the top 20, let’s say, listed in US News & World Report. Which is the only one that still clings to its faith in some way or another? Notre Dame. Instead of giving up on my school as an “apostate university”… why not try to change it?

When I was looking at colleges to go to, I read posts on this board, I read information from such organizations as the Cardinal Newman Society… I knew about Ex Corde Ecclesia, the Mandatum… I formulated a list and sophomore year I had my heart set on the Franciscan Univ of Steubenville. But then I visited… I didn’t feel “it” there, but I felt “it” here, and after thinking about it, I felt that the best way to change the situation of Catholic education in America was not to avoid the ones which seem to be heading downhill, but to go and try to change from within. That is what so many students and professors are trying to do here.

And addressing what someone else said about orthodox Catholic groups on campus with people of various political leanings… those do exist here. :o)

Anyways… I am a firm believer that ND is not 100% secular, and I believe that if you visited you’d feel the same. Sure, we’re perhaps not “as Catholic as we should be”… but then again, no one’s perfect. (Should we accept this with complacency… again, no. But no need to attack and abandon us for this imperfection. It’s a STRUGGLE.) Come to a football game, where the players kneel on the field and pray before the game; where there is a deluge after the game not towards the dining hall, but to the Basilica, dorm chapels, and the Stepan Center for Mass. Come at 10PM on any Sunday night, and visit any one of the 26 dorms on campus, where you’ll see a large portion of the student body heading to Mass. Or if you came last night… those same dorms had Masses for All Saint’s Day, and you’d be surprised at the levels of attendance. What other university has a replica of the Grotto at Lourdes, where people can be found praying at any hour of the day? It’s hard to go anywhere here and be out of sight of Mary on top of the Dome, the steeple of the Basilica, “Touchdown Jesus” on the library, or one of the countless other pieces of religious art on campus. How many other Catholic universities still have crucifixes in EVERY classroom and office? How many Catholic universities still have single-sex dorms with a strong feeling of family life, based on the idea of Christian community? Catholicism permeates ND… faith and tradition here are so important it’s undeniable. There is no other place I’d rather be.
 
As a student at Notre Dame, I have seen, firsthand, what is truly going on at the university.

First of all, in response to the original “pro-homosexual ‘National Coming Out Day,’” let it be said that there is nothing EVIL with being a homosexual, and in fact, I would argue that it is better to be true to yourself and live as a Catholic than to lie about your identity. If gays and lesbians want to assert their individuality, then great for them. However, as I’m sure has been said in other posts, once they act about those homosexual orientations, then a sin has been committed. This is a different issue. Nothing is wrong, however, with being proud of who you are.

When I chose a Catholic university, I didn’t want to be brainwashed and thrust into an environment where I would be sheltered from the world. If this is someone’s idea of a “Catholic University,” then I can understand why they might have a problem with Notre Dame.

However, I chose Notre Dame because of the predominantly Catholic tradition here including Mass in the dorms (some better than others), required Theology and Philosophy classes, perhaps the best Theology department in the country, and much more.

All in all, I would argue that the University of Notre Dame is more truly Catholic in that it exposes its students to reality. The most important part of living is making choices, and even in the face of temptations, liberalism, etc… many kids still go to Mass every Sunday and live their lives accordingly.
 
Fellow Domers (and others),

"Gay? Fine by me."
Zahmir says that there is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are. Well, that may be true, but there is also nothing “right” with having a same sex attraction. It is a disordered condition that, in and of it self, is not inherently sinful. Period. That said, there are many things that are very wrong with living a “gay lifestyle”. This whole “being true to yourself” thing is hogwash, and an “openly gay and Catholic life style” should not be tolerated amongst the faithful. Once you identify yourself exclusively by your sexual disorder, and become “gay”, you are disrespecting yourself and can no longer claim to be “proud”. You don’t have to lie about it, you just can’t indulge your disorder. You can’t let it *become *who you are. Be proud of who you are, but don’t be proud of having a disorder.

The “Gay? Fine by me.” shirts are far more common than has been suggested. One class I passed was almost completely orange with these shirts.

“Secular values? Go to a secular school.”

Brainwashing.
The “brainwashing” Zamir speaks of comes far more from the “Secular Relativism” side of the spectrum than from the Catholic side. He would do well to keep that in mind. There is no such thing as the “Right to choose” to kill your child. Brainwashing tells you there is. There is no such thing as a “moral gay lifestyle”. Brainwashing tells you there is. There is no such thing as the “right to die”. Brainwashing tells you there is.

If being “sheltered from the world” means being immersed in holiness, count me in.

**Mass in the dorms. **
I was at mass in the dorms yesterday (All Saint’s Day), and the pews were about 40% full, including the attendence of faculty, spouses, and children. I wasn’t overwhelmed.

Best theology department in the country.
Two words - Fr. McBrien. I know the close friends of a former TA and a current TA for him, and they are both orthodox and highly discourteous about his teachings. His teachings are an indirect affront to the magisterium, and he truly has no place here.

**The most important part of living is making choices…
**Categorically wrong. The most important part of living is making the right choices; specifically the choice to know, love, and serve God. Anything else is less than what you were made to be. A Catholic University should help you make the right choices, and it does not do so by hosting “The Vagina Monologues” or “The Queer Festival”, without presenting “The Theology of the Body” or any other Church teaching. Presenting only one side is intellectually dishonest, and it is a shame that any would think otherwise. A Catholic University should present both sides, then tell you why the Church’s teaching is right. This is not as difficult as one would imagine; the Truth is always with us. Again, to say otherwise is to fall prey to secular relativism or outright heresy.

Pockets of Orthodoxy
This is probably the most appropriate description. There are the devout faithful here who love Christ and love the Church, and willingly submit mind and will to both. Submission does not mean an unquestioning abandonment of intellect; it means submission. I have questioned plenty of Church teachings, and have always come away fully satisfied that the Church teaches the Truth. A thousand questions don’t add up to a single doubt.

Pray for Notre Dame
We need prayers. We need a New Evangelization. There are those of us here who are working towards this goal, but the laborers are few. Please pray for vocations and orthodoxy. Pray for a renewal of the Holy Spirit within the students here - we need all the help we can get.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
Of all the arguments made by the previous post, there is one that is most essential to the argument at large, that being “making choices.” As I said in my previous post, the importance of life is making choices. Ryan corrected me in saying that the importance of life is making the **right ** choices, and I agree with him. However, I would rather live and work somewhere that I could have that choice, between right and wrong, and grow. I would not want to live in a place where I could never be strengthened deeply in my faith.

In deciding between “The Vagina Monologues” and a “Theology of the Body” retreat, I would most certainly want to choose a “Theology of the Body” retreat (which they do in fact offer). However, I pose the question most sincerely: How can I grow in a place where I am never exposed to the other side of the issue? How can I adequately defend my faith when I can’t see the opposing side?
 
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Zahmir:
How can I grow in a place where I am never exposed to the other side of the issue?
If you were exposed to Christ, and *only *Christ, do you think you could grow in your faith? I imagine the answer is yes. You don’t strictly need the opposing viewpoint - it’s already within you. You still have a fallen nature (concupiscence) that must be overcome; there’s a long way to go for all of us.
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Zahmir:
How can I adequately defend my faith when I can’t see the opposing side?
Step 1: Learn your faith. Poor catechesis is why there are so many cafeteria Catholics (I should know: I was one!). We have failed at Step 1. This is why it is important to have a Catholic University in more than name or what hangs on the walls.

Step 2: Learn the faith of another. Learn about the plight of another. Do this only after step one. Only after step one can you do step two properly.

If you rush into Step 2 without Step 1, you’ll wind up with a bad case of “Sympathy for the Devil”. We first need to form our conscience, and only after it is rightly formed, we need to go into the world.

The plain fact is that most Americans have taken zero steps towards rightly forming their conscience (including a great many Catholics). Trying to defend a view that you don’t understand is very similar to the “near occasion of sin”; you can fall into heresy in a heartbeat.

A Catholic University should espouse Catholic virtues. This doesn’t mean that other viewpoints shouldn’t be expressed, only that the institution should espouse only the Catholic viewpoint. This is not currently the case.

Have you been on a Theology of the Body retreat? Was it orthodox? Do you know how to tell?

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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Zahmir:
I would rather live and work somewhere that I could have that choice, between right and wrong, and grow.
Sounds like this statement could be used to support the availability of abortion…very un-Catholic.
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Zahmir:
I would not want to live in a place where I could never be strengthened deeply in my faith.
Me neither, but being exposed to error and sin should be done carefully by responsible people who are going to tell you why it’s wrong and not by people who support it. This is very risky business and could lead many astray.
 
I notice that the local Baptist college here does not sponsor lewd plays such as the V_monologues and also does not sponsor pro-homosexual events on campus. Why should Catholic parents pay tens of thousands of dollars to send their children to Catholic colleges where they will be indoctrinated by lewd plays according to which young teenage girls are taught that they can achieve their personal salvation by lesbian activities with older lesbian women? Wouldn’t this be a waste of money? It seems like Catholic youth would do much better at the local Baptist college here, which stresses family life and opposes these pro-homosexual activities on their campus.
 
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RyanL:
If you were exposed to Christ, and *only *Christ, do you think you could grow in your faith? I imagine the answer is yes. You don’t strictly need the opposing viewpoint - it’s already within you. You still have a fallen nature (concupiscence) that must be overcome; there’s a long way to go for all of us.
I tend to see disagreement as a way to truth, and I thank RyanL for his posts.

I want to compare Franciscan University to Notre Dame. I don’t go to Franciscan, so someone may disagree, but, for now, let’s just say Franciscan is the “ideal” Catholic university, according to others that have posted here.

First of all, I find it important know and understand the teachings of the Church, and I came here to do just that. However, as much as I learn, I feel as though I must act. (What good is knowledge if you don’t do anything with it.) I don’t think that I would have much oppurtunity to act at Franciscan because everything would already be decided for me, everything would be “right.”

Personally, I’m not going to tell someone not to see the “Vagina Monologues,” but that’s just me. (I would tell someone not to get an abortion, or steal, or cheat on a test.) However, as Rach620 said earlier, it’s better to work on these things rather than avoid them altogether.

Could the University be more Catholic? Of course, just as everyone should continue to grow and be strengthened. (You are not perfect, either.) But I tend to avoid criticizing the University because they already offer so much.

p.s. I did not go on any retreats yet, though I will.
 
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Zahmir:
First of all, in response to the original “pro-homosexual ‘National Coming Out Day,’” let it be said that there is nothing EVIL with being a homosexual, and in fact, I would argue that it is better to be true to yourself and live as a Catholic than to lie about your identity. If gays and lesbians want to assert their individuality, then great for them. However, as I’m sure has been said in other posts, once they act about those homosexual orientations, then a sin has been committed. This is a different issue. Nothing is wrong, however, with being proud of who you are.
I don’t see why you would encourage people to be proud of a psychological disorder like homophilia. Following that line of reasoning, I suppose we should promote pride for other so-called “sexual orientations” like these:

**Exhibitionism ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by the idea of exposing their genitals to a stranger.
**Fetishism ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by nonliving objects.
**Frotteurism ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by the idea of touching and rubbing against a nonconsenting person.
**Pedophilia ** - involves people who are sexually attracted to prepubescent children (usually 13 years or younger).
Sexual Masochism - involves people who are sexually aroused by being “humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer.”
Sexual Sadism - involves people who are sexually aroused by causing the psychological or physical suffering of a victim (e.g., “restraint, blindfolding, paddling, spanking, whipping, pinching, beating, burning, electrical shocks, rape, cutting, stabbing, strangulation, torture, mutilation, or killing”).
Transvestic Fetishism - involves people who are sexually aroused by cross-dressing.
**Voyeurism ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by watching unsuspecting strangers have sex.
**Telephone Scatologia ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls.
**Necrophilia ** - involves people who are sexually attracted to corpses.
**Partialism ** - involves people who are sexually attracted to exclusively one part of the body.
**Zoophilia ** - involves people who are sexually attracted to animals.
**Coprophilia ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by feces.
**Klismaphilia ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by enemas.
**Urophilia ** - involves people who are sexually aroused by urine.

Finally, phrases like: “being true to your self/identity” & “assert your individuality” are simply liberal slogans meant to mask the true meaning behind their agenda to destroy traditional values.

Here is an exerpt from the article “Right Ways and Wrong Ways to Influence Peopel” by Alice von Hildebrand. It can be found in the November 2005 issue of This Rock.
Slogans
Slogans - especially those designed to mask or distort the reality of what they convey - are rampant. “Death with Dignity,” “pro-choice,” “homophobia,” “elitism,” and “sexism” are examples. Once largely the province of politics, today they are epidemic in all domains of human life and win assent from people who fail to recognize that they are being manipulated and are reacting to irrational feelings, unfounded sympathies, or antipathies. They replace arguments and proofs, skirting man’s reason. In colleges and universities they foster academic deterioration, degrade learning, and anesthetize logic - all enemies of wisdom and truth. By acting on man’s emotions, they promote intellectual inertia.

Some Catholics employ slogans to win assent to their agendas. Cleverly chosen words - Dark Ages, ghetto mentality, triumphalism, and paternalism, for example - can trigger wild though unfounded enthusiasm or vicious hatred."
 
Could the University be more Catholic? Of course, just as everyone should continue to grow and be strengthened. (You are not perfect, either.) But I tend to avoid criticizing the University because they already offer so much.
they offer much… much dissent and hetrodox theology. everyone knows that notre dame’s theology dept. is totally corrupt. the school refuses to sign the mandatum ensuring fidelity to the church. it’s a completely secularized college that happens to have been catholic at one time. i would say most catholic colleges are in the same boat so it is not as if we are picking on notre dame.

there is ZERO excuse to promote a comming out day for homos or the performance of vagina monolouges. here is an objective fact: homosexual sex is a mortal sin, ergo, it can seperate you from God for enterity. the bottom line of our faith is heaven or hell that is it. black and white, pure and simple. so in fact, the university is promoting mortal sins while it promotes being catholic. this is a deadly combo and a huge disservice to people who suffer from a disorded sexuality. if one argues the merits of a catholic education based on if you go to heaven or hell, i would say notre dame gets an F.

if notre dame can’t get that straight, a sin which cries out to heaven, how in the world can they do anything right? you can’t just say that besides those blunders, it’s a catholic school. that’s like saying besides fr. mcbrides dissent from catholic teaching in matters of abortion and homosexuality, he’s a fine catholic priest.
 
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