Prayer: A Rant

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Eucharisted

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I’ve encountered some Jewish users on CAF - not naming names, folks - who are pissed off that the Catholic Church is praying for their conversion.

Okay. Here’s my stance on non-Catholics praying for me: I don’t mind.

You think I need to convert? Pray for me. You think I won’t go to heaven unless I acknowledge what you acknowledge? Pray for me. You think my soul is sick? Pray for me.

I don’t mind that you’re doing a charitable act, that you’re doing what you believe will save my soul from hell or annihilation or whatever horrible fate you believe awaits those who don’t make it to heaven, out of the goodness of your heart. I actually commend such a charitable act, and I encourage you to continue to pray for me.

I’m making this rant because I can’t believe people are pissed off about, first of all, a charitable act being done for them (prayer), and second of all, sticking their noses into other people’s religions and saying “I hate this and this, so change it NOW!”

If you consider someone praying for you something other then a charitable or merciful or good act, fine. But don’t go screaming and whining about it, because you have to be respectful of other people’s beliefs, and, you don’t know what happens in peoples’ hearts - someone could be praying for you and you wouldn’t know it. We have to respectful, charitable, toward one another because if we were the opposite - hostile, angry - we would not do any good for the world and we would constantly fight each other over praying and prayers.

Not only that, but if we considered someone praying for us an evil deed, we would go insane, because, again, someone could be praying for you right now, and you wouldn’t know it, so the thought of the danger of evil being done against you would constantly play through your head, like a broken record, and it would really hurt your mental health.

But if we’re respectful, charitable, and encourage prayer, than prayer is seen as good, and this gives us hope and optimism, and it helps us do good for the world and be less anxious and worrisome.

In brief, pray for me if you think I need prayer, stop worrying over what others pray, and be charitable.
 
This is an interesting post, and it made me smile. I have a young friend who used to get really mad at me for praying for her because she thought that it meant that I was somehow judging her. I’ve also encountered people out at abortion clinics. I would stand outside and pray, and get yelled at. My thought there is, you must be terribly afraid that God is going to say yes to me! 😃

I don’t mind if other people pray for me…even if they don’t believe in the same God I believe in…mainly because I can’t help but think that MY God is going to hear their prayers anyway (given His omnipresence!)

But at the same time, I get upset when I read about things like the rogue Mormon group that were posthumusly baptizing people by proxy. It upset me, not because I thought anything would happen, but because I felt it showed a lack of respect for my beliefs.

Just my :twocents:
 
I can understand their complaint, though. If someone is praying for something that you know is wrong or think is a bad thing for you, you aren’t going to think it’s very charitable.

Imagine if someone were praying that you catch the flu?

I had some non-Catholics praying that I leave the Catholic church and join some non-Catholic Christian denomination. I don’t think God would answer that prayer, unless it were to straighten them out :), but I still didn’t like it.

They were really big on making sure that I understood that people had no way of knowing which denomination had it right, as way of saying that the CC is not the church that Jesus founded. So I asked them, then, if they were so sure that they couldn’t know which denomination was the right denomination, how could pray that someone leave one of them? What if they were praying for someone to leave the right denomination?

The stopped praying for me. I don’t know if they realized that they were making no sense, or if they just gave up on me, but they quit it, and I was happy to be off their prayer list.
 
Historically, christians prayed for us with one hand and smacked us with the other. I think that is a significant difference
 
Eucharisted said:
I’ve encountered some Jewish users on CAF - not naming names, folks - who are** pissed **off that the Catholic Church is praying for their conversion.

… I can’t believe people are **pissed off **about, first of all, …
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I pray you get a better grasp of the english language and learn to express yourself without having to resort to gutter language.
 
Valke2 said:
Historically, christians prayed for us with one hand and smacked us with the other. I think that is a significant difference
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Historically,SOME Christians prayed for you and SOME Christians smacked you.

One may even subsitute most for some but not all.
 
Guyonthestreet said:
I pray you get a better grasp of the english language and learn to express yourself without having to resort to gutter language.
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How is it “gutter language” to say that you’re “pissed off” at someone? And how exactly is it hurting you?
 
Valke2 said:
Historically, christians prayed for us with one hand and smacked us with the other. I think that is a significant difference
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Historically, the Jewish leadershp encouraged followers to stone us to death, but we’re over it because no one alive and active had a thing to do with it. That makes all the difference. Of course, when I learn about discrimination in states I know little about before my mother was old enough to read, I do get sad and embarrassed for my country, but then, I didn’t do it. And if someone prayes for you while smacking you, s/he has little or no understanding of what prayer is for and to whom s/he prays, and will be held to account for it one day. Normally, prayer is prayer. To pray for someone’s conversion is a kindness. If the person is already closer to truth than the one praying is, then it will simply not have any effect. if not, then it will have an effect that will benefit all concerned greatly, especially the one payed for.
I think the real reason people object to members of other religions’ wanting them to convert is that it brings home to them that others actually really do believe different things. If one doesn’t actually believe a religion but “does this” as my non-Christian friends say of me, for some ulterior irrelevant purpose, then it’s fine and comfortable that we’re all so colorfully diverse and multicultural and all, but if one actually believes things that a friend disagrees with, there is a point of disagreement. That’s something many people arrange their lives and incoming information specifically to ward off. But that doesn’t make it go away; we do beleive different things.
 
The only reason I can see is if the believe the prayer is effective. Because this referrence back to the middle ages and prayer and slapping is no longer applicable in this present day and age. Jews have done well for themselves and are an accepted group in society gone are the days of the slums. So the only reason that is reasonable to be offended is they are fearful of effectiveness which (since, they don’t believe in the Trinity as Christians do) makes them superstitious which for them is against Torah. If a Jew were to pray for my conversion I would not be offended one bit. I would thank them because in their mind they are conserned for my eternity. Which is measured by Jews on a continuity line of relevant closeness to God.
 
survive said:
Historically, the Jewish leadershp encouraged followers to stone us to death, but we’re over it because no one alive and active had a thing to do with it. That makes all the difference. Of course, when I learn about discrimination in states I know little about before my mother was old enough to read, I do get sad and embarrassed for my country, but then, I didn’t do it. And if someone prayes for you while smacking you, s/he has little or no understanding of what prayer is for and to whom s/he prays, and will be held to account for it one day. Normally, prayer is prayer. To pray for someone’s conversion is a kindness. If the person is already closer to truth than the one praying is, then it will simply not have any effect. if not, then it will have an effect that will benefit all concerned greatly, especially the one payed for.
I think the real reason people object to members of other religions’ wanting them to convert is that it brings home to them that others actually really do believe different things. If one doesn’t actually believe a religion but “does this” as my non-Christian friends say of me, for some ulterior irrelevant purpose, then it’s fine and comfortable that we’re all so colorfully diverse and multicultural and all, but if one actually believes things that a friend disagrees with, there is a point of disagreement. That’s something many people arrange their lives and incoming information specifically to ward off. But that doesn’t make it go away; we do beleive different things.
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Listen. There’s no comparision to the alleged (and historically unproven) allegation that jews stoned some christians 2,000 years ago (and any such violence would more accurately be described as happening within one religion, not two) to the centuries and millenia of abuse jews suffered at the hands of christian states.
 
sambos671 said:
The only reason I can see is if the believe the prayer is effective. Because this referrence back to the middle ages and prayer and slapping is no longer applicable in this present day and age. Jews have done well for themselves and are an accepted group in society gone are the days of the slums. So the only reason that is reasonable to be offended is they are fearful of effectiveness which (since, they don’t believe in the Trinity as Christians do) makes them superstitious which for them is against Torah. If a Jew were to pray for my conversion I would not be offended one bit. I would thank them because in their mind they are conserned for my eternity. Which is measured by Jews on a continuity line of relevant closeness to God.
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You think we have to go all the way back to the middle ages to find a time when jews suffered at the hands of other religions including christianity?

1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome’s ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church’s practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: “Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue.”
 
Valke2 said:
You think we have to go all the way back to the middle ages to find a time when jews suffered at the hands of other religions including christianity?
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Even if we go back to 1933 - 1945 it doesn’t change the point. The Eastern countries from the Middle East to Russia are still problematic but not so much in the west. Jews have the protection of the Western countries.
 
sambos671 said:
Even if we go back to 1933 - 1945 it doesn’t change the point. The Eastern countries from the Middle East to Russia are still problematic but not so much in the west. Jews have the protection of the Western countries.
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Whatever. You wanted to know why some jews are offended by christians praying for them. I gave my opinion as to why. The Church for quite some time taught that we were christ killers and deserved to be treated accordingly while at the same time teaching that some of us had to be kept around for revelation. So you’ll have to forgive us for being touchy about more prayers for our conversion.
 
Valke2 said:
Whatever. You wanted to know why some jews are offended by christians praying for them. I gave my opinion as to why. The Church for quite some time taught that we were christ killers and deserved to be treated accordingly while at the same time teaching that some of us had to be kept around for revelation. So you’ll have to forgive us for being touchy about more prayers for our conversion.
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There were church members who did teach that which I find shows a lack of logic because the actual christ killers were Roman. The Jews just set up the senario for the Romans to do so. Romans could have backed out but they didn’t. And my apology for them doesn’t make up for centuries of mistreatment. However, a prayer for someone is not the samething as a slap in the face. Nor is it a call to abuse Jews. Its asking God to open the eyes of these people. Simple. How can that be offensive. If a Rav were to pray to God for me I would not be offended. I would say Toda Rabba.
 
sambos671 said:
There were church members who did teach that which I find shows a lack of logic because the actual christ killers were Roman. The Jews just set up the senario for the Romans to do so. Romans could have backed out but they didn’t. And my apology for them doesn’t make up for centuries of mistreatment. However, a prayer for someone is not the samething as a slap in the face. Nor is it a call to abuse Jews. Its asking God to open the eyes of these people. Simple. How can that be offensive. If a Rav were to pray to God for me I would not be offended. I would say Toda Rabba.
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What I am trying to say is that historically such prayers went hand in hand with persecution. Of course the prayers themselves are not persecution.
 
Valke2 said:
What I am trying to say is that historically such prayers went hand in hand with persecution. Of course the prayers themselves are not persecution.
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Ok. So you automatically assume a christian is saying (persecute Jews) when they say I pray that you believe in Jesus as Messiah and become Christian? Do you think its code? Really? I mean the world had changed, especially in the west. And I’m not certain the people who persecuted the Jews were really all that conserned about their souls. They might have said “pray so that we might deliver the land from the Heathen” which would be entirely different then someone saying I pray that you become a Christian. And in todays world there is no one in the west thinking well If I get people to pray for Jews and Jews don’t convert we can confiscate their property, relieve our debt, and basically make their lives miserable. Well, at least not in the West. I would worry about the East but then again they don’t really need an excuse they just hate Jews for some ungodly reason.
 
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