Prayer at Reformation Day attended by the Pope

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This prayer will be said in October in a Lutheran Church to recognize the Protestant Reformation by Pope Francis. While there is no indication the Pope will say this, it will be read by a “Presider”

“Thanks be to you O God for the many guiding theological and spiritual insights that we have all received through the Reformation. Thanks be to you for the good transformations and reforms that were set in motion by the Reformation or by struggling with its challenges. Thanks be to you for the proclamation of the gospel that occurred during the Reformation and that since then has strengthened countless people to live lives of faith in Jesus Christ”

lutheranworld.org/sites/default/files/dtpw-lrc-liturgy-2016_en.pdf

Isn’t this prayer a slap in the fact to the Canons of the Council of Trent?

What theological and spiritual insights were received from the Reformation which denied the Mass is a sacrifice, denied the priesthood, denied the doctrines on purgatory and much more.

Help me make sense of why the Pope would participate in this prayer which must have been approved by the Vatican.
 
Third_Day said:
This prayer will be said in October in a Lutheran Church to recognize the Protestant Reformation by Pope Francis. While there is no indication the Pope will say this, it will be read by a “Presider”

“Thanks be to you O God for the many guiding theological and spiritual insights that we have all received through the Reformation. Thanks be to you for the good transformations and reforms that were set in motion by the Reformation or by struggling with its challenges. Thanks be to you for the proclamation of the gospel that occurred during the Reformation and that since then has strengthened countless people to live lives of faith in Jesus Christ”

lutheranworld.org/sites/default/files/dtpw-lrc-liturgy-2016_en.pdf

Isn’t this prayer a slap in the fact to the Canons of the Council of Trent?

What theological and spiritual insights were received from the Reformation which denied the Mass is a sacrifice, denied the priesthood, denied the doctrines on purgatory and much more.

Help me make sense of why the Pope would participate in this prayer which must have been approved by the Vatican.
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The intent of this historic service of prayer between Lutherans and Roman Catholics is three-fold. The Liturgy states:

“After two readings that help contextualize the confession, the presiders lead the assembly in a three-part prayer. First of all, the assembly laments the way in which even good actions of reform often had unintended negative consequences. Secondly, the assembly acknowledges the guilt of the past. Thirdly, the assembly confesses its own complacency that has perpetuated the divisions of the past and has built more walls today.”

And yes, I believe that the Vatican’s representatives have worked very long and very hard on this coming together to recognize the repercussions of the Reformation. I am sure the words were chosen very carefully, and both sides are committed to these three actions of contrition.

It is a GOOD thing. How can it not be?
 
Third_Day said:
This prayer will be said in October in a Lutheran Church to recognize the Protestant Reformation by Pope Francis. While there is no indication the Pope will say this, it will be read by a “Presider”

“Thanks be to you O God for the many guiding theological and spiritual insights that we have all received through the Reformation. Thanks be to you for the good transformations and reforms that were set in motion by the Reformation or by struggling with its challenges. Thanks be to you for the proclamation of the gospel that occurred during the Reformation and that since then has strengthened countless people to live lives of faith in Jesus Christ”

lutheranworld.org/sites/default/files/dtpw-lrc-liturgy-2016_en.pdf

Isn’t this prayer a slap in the fact to the Canons of the Council of Trent?

What theological and spiritual insights were received from the Reformation which denied the Mass is a sacrifice, denied the priesthood, denied the doctrines on purgatory and much more.

Help me make sense of why the Pope would participate in this prayer which must have been approved by the Vatican.
Click to expand...
The human aspects of the Church needed reform. Who knows how long or even if Trent would’ve occurred without the Reformation. That said, they should have stayed in the Church to reform. Many reformers of previous eras of strife were canonized.
 
Upgrade25 said:
The human aspects of the Church needed reform. Who knows how long or even if Trent would’ve occurred without the Reformation. That said, they should have stayed in the Church to reform. Many reformers of previous eras of strife were canonized.
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And some were burned at the stake.
 
Actually I’m glad that this has come up again (and on the NCRF section – I don’t spend very much time on the Traditional section). A couple weeks ago when I read the text, I intended to post a comment about it, but got busy with other things and forgot about it.

IIRC, I was going to quote this part,
“Lutherans are thankful in their hearts for what Luther and the other reform- ers made accessible to them: the understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and faith in him; the insight into the mystery of the Triune God who gives Himself to us human beings out of grace and who can be received only in full trust in the divine promise; the freedom and certainty that the gospel creates; in the love that comes from and is awakened by faith, and in the hope in life and death that faith brings with it; and in the living contact with the Holy Scripture, the catechisms, and hymns that draw faith into life” (#225), in the priesthood of all baptized believers and their calling for the common mission of the Church. “Lutherans … realize that what they are thanking God for is not a gift that they can claim only for themselves. They want to share this gift with all other Christians.” (#226)
Reader II:
“Catholics and Lutherans have so much of the faith in common that they can … be thankful together.” (#226). Encouraged by the Second Vatican Council, Catholics “gladly acknowledge and esteem the truly Christian endowments from our common heritage which are to be found among our separated breth- ren. It is right and salutary to recognize the riches of Christ and virtuous works in the lives of others who are bearing witness to Christ, sometimes even to the shedding of their blood. For God is always wonderful in His works and worthy of all praise.” (Unitatis Redintegratio, Chapter 1). In this spirit, Catholics and Lutherans embrace each other as sisters and brothers in the Lord. Together they rejoice in the truly Christian gifts that they both have received and rediscovered in various ways through the renewal and impulses
of the Reformation. These gifts are reason for thanksgiving.
“The ecumenical journey enables Lutherans and Catholics to appreciate together Martin Luther’s insight into and spiritual experience of the gospel
of the righteousness of God, which is also God’s mercy.” (#244)
Presider I:
Let us pray!
[brief silence]
Thanks be to you O God for the many guiding theological and spiritual insights that we have all received through the Reformation. Thanks be to you for the good transformations and reforms that were set in motion by the Reformation or by struggling with its challenges. Thanks be to you for the proclamation of the gospel that occurred during the Reformation and that since then has strengthened countless people to live lives of faith in Jesus Christ.
Amen.
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and say something super smart like “That seems a little one sided.” :hmmm:
 
Peter_J said:
Actually I’m glad that this has come up again (and on the NCRF section – I don’t spend very much time on the Traditional section). A couple weeks ago when I read the text, I intended to post a comment about it, but got busy with other things and forgot about it.

IIRC, I was going to quote this part,

and say something super smart like “That seems a little one sided.” :hmmm:
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It is. Im very disappointed in francis. Sola fide, sola scriptura, rejecting the deuterocannon? Since when is corrupting 2000 year old doctrine an insight?!
 
Peter_J said:
Actually I’m glad that this has come up again (and on the NCRF section – I don’t spend very much time on the Traditional section). A couple weeks ago when I read the text, I intended to post a comment about it, but got busy with other things and forgot about it.

IIRC, I was going to quote this part,

and say something super smart like “That seems a little one sided.” :hmmm:
Click to expand...
Well, it is “Reformation Day” we are talking about here - presumably “Council of Trent Day” will even it out a little.

I personally quite like the text. Very much so. Again, within the context of the event…
 
For those who wish to understand where the dialogue is and where it is going, the Holy See makes the information readily available and there is no reason that anyone should be taken by surprise by the initiatives as we prepare for next year’s anniversary.

From the Holy See:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

From the US Conference of Catholic Bishops:

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/upload/Declaration_on_the_Way-for-Website.pdf
 
Here’s a quote from Martin Luther:

“There is no scandal greater, more dangerous, more venomous, than a good outward life, manifested by good works and a pious mode of life. That is the grand portal, the highway that leads to damnation.”
(ref. Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 128).

This one is rather mild. There are a whole lot more that would point toward him being a scoundrel. I don’t think it’s a good idea to get too cozy with his offspring.
 
This Pope is all about reunification. He’s willing to swallow his pride to do so, which is good.

Protestants and Orthodox often quote Rome’s “attitude” as one of the reasons blocking re-unification.

The Pope is working to take that excuse away.
 
phil19034 said:
This Pope is all about reunification. He’s willing to swallow his pride to do so, which is good.

Protestants and Orthodox often quote Rome’s “attitude” as one of the reasons blocking re-unification.

The Pope is working to take that excuse away.
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👍

Of course, there will always be people finding excuses for not being ecumenical. A good excuse for some will be that the Pope is “too ecumenical”. 😉
 
So, does this mean Fr. Martin’s excommunication is rescinded?
 
SyroMalankara said:
So, does this mean Fr. Martin’s excommunication is rescinded?
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That question was answered back in 1984 by Cardinal Ratzinger, in an interview he gave to Communio.

*Question: Would it be realistic for the Catholic Church to lift Luther’s excommunication on the basis of the results of more recent scholarship?

Cardinal Ratzinger: In order to do full justice to this question one must differentiate between excommunication as a judicial measure on the part of the legal community of the Church against a certain person, and the factual reasons which led to such a step.

Since the Church’s jurisdiction naturally only extends to the living, the excommunication of a person ends with his death. Consequently, any questions dealing with the lifting of Luther’s excommunication become moot: Luther’s excommunication terminated with his death because judgment after death is reserved to God alone. Luther’s excommunication does not have to be lifted; it has long since ceased to exist.*
 
Don_Ruggero said:
From the US Conference of Catholic Bishops:

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/upload/Declaration_on_the_Way-for-Website.pdf
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There is so much wrong with the bishops document. It implies, if not even states, that the Lutherans have a valid priesthood through the laying on of hands, they have the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It implies that the Lutherans have apostolic succession… I could go on and on.
 
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