Prayer during Communion in Ruthenian church

[DeniseNY]

Also, it tends to “handmaiden of God” for women, although the Pittsburgh metropolis seems to be using the masculine form for both. Were I a woman, I’d be more than mildly offended .

I’m happy to say that my parish is part of the Pittsburgh Archeparchy and our pastor uses “handmaiden”.

 

[byzpilgrim]

I’ve never experienced that either.

 

[dvdjs]

Were I a woman, I’d be more than mildly offended . . .

Are women not servants of God?
In Church Slavonic language:
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[DeniseNY]

If the Theotokos is referred to as handmaid of the Lord, it’s certainly good enough for me (even though I am far from worthy).

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I can figure out "Prichashchayetsya rab Bozhii
(N.) …tila i krove Hospoda i Boha i Spasa Isusa Christa vo ostavleniye hrikov i…zhizi vichnoyu
but can’t make out the rest of it. I’ll have to look it up in my Leiturgikon.

 

[Diaconia]

Yes, it’s just shorthand for the priest.

The best formulation includes your name; _______ (servant or handmaid) of the Lord receives …

 

[dvdjs]

The the rubirc, instructs the priest to say the words that follow to the comminicant.
The communicant is called as “rab Bozhii” - servant of God - and by name.

 

[dochawk]

Are women not servants of God?

But that’s not the issue. Yes, they are indeed servants of God. That doesn’t, as @deniseNY points out, mean they should stripped of that special recognition using the words of the Theotokos herself . . .

 

[dvdjs]

That doesn’t, as @deniseNY points out, mean they should stripped of that special recognition

The word is in the Slavonic is “servant”. That word is used in for men, women, and mixed company in our services. Also in the Magnificat for the Theotokos.
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Can you tell me when and where “handmaiden” cropped up?

 

[dochawk]

Can you tell me when and where “handmaiden” cropped up?

Mary’s response to the angel telling her about her appointed role.

 

[dvdjs]

Mary’s response to the angel telling her about her appointed role.

Sure: in the KJV. But what is the koine or slavonic.
In the liturgy it is servant in the Slavonic.

 

[dochawk]

In the liturgy it is servant in the Slavonic.

which Slavonic. liturgy.

In the US formerly Ruthenian, the English usage at communion was universally “handmaiden” until recently.

And it’s not just the KJV; it’s quite common in catholic English translations of the Bible.

Also, the translation is into English; it should not latch onto the specifics of the Slavonic language.

 

[babochka]

Were I a woman, I’d be more than mildly offended . . .

I choose not to get offended by such a minor detail just before I receive Holy Communion. Just doesn’t seem wise. ( I am likewise not offended by the concept of Christ loving mankind and actively miss hearing it in the liturgy, even though it has been more than a decade since the new translation came out. I know that it includes me.)

 

[dvdjs]

And it’s not just the KJV

Sure. But KJV and DR are the earliest English translations, which injected the word “handmaiden” for servant. Some later translations have kept that word, some haven’t. The Slavonic does not support it.
Neither does the Koine.

 

[dochawk]

But that’s in the “so what?” category.

The English usage has made this distinction as long as the liturgy was in English, and the connotations of the words are different.

The koine matters, but the slavonic translation for the koine is just plain irrelevant for this.

I choose not to get offended by such a minor detail just before I receive Holy Communion.

Oh, that isn’t when I’d be annoyed. It would probably be mid to late afternoon when the pieces came together L)

I am likewise not offended by the concept of Christ loving mankind and actively miss hearing it in the liturgy, even though it has been more than a decade since the new translation came out. I know that it includes me.)

Yes, something got lost there, too . . .

 

[dvdjs]

The English usage has made this distinction as long as the liturgy was in English

Actually it hasn’t. the translation :handmaid" vs “servant” has not been made consistently.

the connotations of the words are different.

They are. That is why you will increasingly see the more accurate word “servant” or even bond-servant in the Magnificat.

 

[dochawk]

Actually it hasn’t. the translation :handmaid" vs “servant” has not been made consistently.

Each church translates for itself. Ask far as I can tell, Ruthenian usage has consistently been “handmaiden”

 

[dvdjs]

Ruthenian usage has consistently been “handmaiden”

In every verse of the Troparion “So duchi pravednyi” the word “raby” is rendred as “servant” as long as we have had English.

"So duchi pravednymi skončavšichsja dušu raba Tvojeho (raby Tvojeja), Spase, upokoj, …
is translated:
With the souls of the just brought to perfection, give rest, O Savior, to the soul of Your servant, …

In any litany, for the deceased or for thanksgiving, in intonations for Many Years or Eternal Memory: consistently servant.

 

[rowlands]

Communion prayer changes to “раба Божия” when it is a woman!

 

[dvdjs]

Communion prayer changes to

See also my post above: dušu raba Tvojeho (raby Tvojeja). Many languages have declensions for gender. English not so much. But “handmaid” for a female bond-servant is not a declension. It is meaning-changing substitution.