Prayer in a state of mortal sin

[CopticChristian]

First of all the sin you commited, was not a mortal sin. You did not take the life of someone, you did not commit adultery or steal from another. Aren’t those the “mortal sins”?

You lied which is a venial sin. And of course like I said in my earlier post, when we go straight to God, with contrite hearts, yes of course He forgives us.

Mortal sin separates us from living eternal life with Him in Heaven if we don’t repent of it before we die on earth even if we think what we did was justified like in abortion.

Romans, chapter 2, verse 4-5
Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance? By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God.

Luke 13:28
And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.

Peace,

If someone believes they commit mortal sin is that sin mortal?

 

[pollynova]

First of all the sin you commited, was not a mortal sin. You did not take the life of someone, you did not commit adultery or steal from another. Aren’t those the “mortal sins”?

You lied which is a venial sin. And of course like I said in my earlier post, when we go straight to God, with contrite hearts, yes of course He forgives us.

Okay, this is kind of getting frustrating. I really appreciate people that are taking the time to respond but I feel like my question is being glossed over in favor of a discussion about what a mortal sin is and isn’t and how confession works. That is NOT what I am concerned about.

I am concerned whether a person’s prayers are effective while that person is in a state of mortal sin. If a person is in a state of mortal sin, and they pray for someone else or pray for themselves, and they have not repented of that sin, does God ignore those prayers? That’s what I really want to know.

 

[J_Peterson]

I am concerned whether a person’s prayers are effective while that person is in a state of mortal sin. If a person is in a state of mortal sin, and they pray for someone else or pray for themselves, and they have not repented of that sin, does God ignore those prayers? That’s what I really want to know.

I’m not a theologian or an expert at anything but I can say from experience that God answers our prayers for ourselves and others even if we are in a state of mortal sin.

How could He not hear us and how can He not take pity on us?

 

[pollynova]

I’m not a theologian or an expert at anything but I can say from experience that God answers our prayers for ourselves and others even if we are in a state of mortal sin.

How could He not hear us and how can He not take pity on us?

That’s what I’m trying to find out, because in the link I posted, Fr. Vincent made it sound like God does not respond to prayers from a person who is in a state of mortal sin.

 

[CopticChristian]

That’s what I’m trying to find out, because in the link I posted, Fr. Vincent made it sound like God does not respond to prayers from a person who is in a state of mortal sin.

Polly,

It has been stated that while in mortal sin there is no sanctifying grace. Examine the Catechism on prayer and what you pray for… notice prayers of Petition…

Asking forgiveness is the prerequisite for both the Eucharistic liturgy and personal prayer.

We know that venial sins are forgiven in the liturgy but not Mortal sins…so after review of prayer…

scborromeo.org/ccc/p4s1c1a3.htm

II. PRAYER OF PETITION

2629 The vocabulary of supplication in the New Testament is rich in shades of meaning: ask, beseech, plead, invoke, entreat, cry out, even "struggle in prayer."102 Its most usual form, because the most spontaneous, is petition: by prayer of petition we express awareness of our relationship with God. We are creatures who are not our own beginning, not the masters of adversity, not our own last end. We are sinners who as Christians know that we have turned away from our Father. Our petition is already a turning back to him.

2630 The New Testament contains scarcely any prayers of lamentation, so frequent in the Old Testament. In the risen Christ the Church’s petition is buoyed by hope, even if we still wait in a state of expectation and must be converted anew every day. Christian petition, what St. Paul calls {“groaning,” arises from another depth, that of creation “in labor pains” and that of ourselves "as we wait for the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved."103 In the end, however, “with sighs too deep for words” the Holy Spirit "helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words."104

2631 The first movement of the prayer of petition is asking forgiveness, like the tax collector in the parable: "God, be merciful to me a sinner!"105 It is a prerequisite for righteous and pure prayer. A trusting humility brings us back into the light of communion between the Father and his Son Jesus Christ and with one another, so that "we receive from him whatever we ask."106 Asking forgiveness is the prerequisite for both the Eucharistic liturgy and personal prayer.

2632 Christian petition is centered on the desire and search for the Kingdom to come, in keeping with the teaching of Christ.107 There is a hierarchy in these petitions: we pray first for the Kingdom, then for what is necessary to welcome it and cooperate with its coming. This collaboration with the mission of Christ and the Holy Spirit, which is now that of the Church, is the object of the prayer of the apostolic community.108 It is the prayer of Paul, the apostle par excellence, which reveals to us how the divine solicitude for all the churches ought to inspire Christian prayer.109 By prayer every baptized person works for the coming of the Kingdom.

2633 When we share in God’s saving love, we understand that every need can become the object of petition. Christ, who assumed all things in order to redeem all things, is glorified by what we ask the Father in his name.110 It is with this confidence that St. James and St. Paul exhort us to pray at all times.111

As Father has declared, while in Mortal sin you need to go to confession so that you can pray as you ought…

 

[pollynova]

Polly,

It has been stated that while in mortal sin there is no sanctifying grace. Examine the Catechism on prayer and what you pray for… notice prayers of Petition…

We know that venial sins are forgiven in the liturgy but not Mortal sins…so after review of prayer…

scborromeo.org/ccc/p4s1c1a3.htm

As Father has declared, while in Mortal sin you need to go to confession so that you can pray as you ought…

So if you’re in a state of mortal sin there is no point in praying until you’ve gone to confession?

 

[michaelmas]

So if you’re in a state of mortal sin there is no point in praying until you’ve gone to confession?

I have been searching for this answer because I as well would like to know…

In the 1962 Missal there are prayers BEFORE confession. if our prayers are worthless until after confession then why pray before?

This quote is from the catechism of trent:

The Second Degree Of Prayer: The Prayer Of Sinners

Another degree of prayer is that of those who are weighed down by the guilt of mortal sin, but who strive, with what is called dead faith, to raise themselves from their condition and to ascend to God. But, in consequence of their languid state and the extreme weakness of their faith, they cannot raise themselves from the earth. Recognising their crimes and stung with remorse of conscience, they bow themselves down with humility, and, far as they are removed from God, implore of Him with penitential sorrow, the pardon of their sins and the peace of reconciliation.
The prayers of such persons are not rejected by God, but are heard by Him. Nay, in His mercy, He generously invites such as these to have recourse to Him, saying: Come to me, all you that labour, and are heavily laden, and I will refresh you, of this class was the publican, who, though he did not dare to raise his eyes towards heaven, left the Temple, as (our Lord) declares, more justified than the Pharisee.

Catechism of the Council of Trent

So far it looks as though even in mortal sin our prayers are heard…

 

[CopticChristian]

So far it looks as though even in mortal sin our prayers are heard…

Michael,

On your own you can do nothing…this is real simple…read through the Canons of the Council of Orange, they were repeated at Trent…

Council of Orange (529 AD)
Canons 4-8

CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, “The will is prepared by the Lord” (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, “For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).

CANON 5. If anyone says that not only the increase of faith but also its beginning and the very desire for faith, by which we believe in Him who justifies the ungodly and comes to the regeneration of holy baptism – if anyone says that this belongs to us by nature and not by a gift of grace, that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit amending our will and turning it from unbelief to faith and from godlessness to godliness, it is proof that he is opposed to the teaching of the Apostles, for blessed Paul says, “And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:6). And again, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). For those who state that the faith by which we believe in God is natural make all who are separated from the Church of Christ by definition in some measure believers.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

CANON 7. If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, as is expedient for us, or that we can be saved, that is, assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who makes all men gladly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray by a heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, “For apart from me you can do nothing” (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, “Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God” (2 Cor. 3:5).

CANON 8. If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him “unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 16:17), and as the Apostle says, “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:3).

What are you praying for while in Mortal Sin…

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

The prodigal son, left the Father and could cry for help and the Father always wants his child to come home…

While in Mortal sin, your prayers move God to move you…to reconcile you to Him…you can’t even with your own will move yourself to be cleansed from sin…so your prayers cause God to move you…

 

[CopticChristian]

I have been searching for this answer because I as well would like to know…

In the 1962 Missal there are prayers BEFORE confession. if our prayers are worthless until after confession then why pray before?

This quote is from the catechism of trent:

The Second Degree Of Prayer: The Prayer Of Sinners

Another degree of prayer is that of those who are weighed down by the guilt of mortal sin, but who strive, with what is called dead faith, to raise themselves from their condition and to ascend to God. But, in consequence of their languid state and the extreme weakness of their faith, they cannot raise themselves from the earth. Recognising their crimes and stung with remorse of conscience, they bow themselves down with humility, and, far as they are removed from God, implore of Him with penitential sorrow, the pardon of their sins and the peace of reconciliation.
The prayers of such persons are not rejected by God, but are heard by Him. Nay, in His mercy, He generously invites such as these to have recourse to Him, saying: Come to me, all you that labour, and are heavily laden, and I will refresh you, of this class was the publican, who, though he did not dare to raise his eyes towards heaven, left the Temple, as (our Lord) declares, more justified than the Pharisee.

Catechism of the Council of Trent

So far it looks as though even in mortal sin our prayers are heard…

CONTINUED…

If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, “The will is prepared by the Lord” (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, “For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).

and that movement is not of your own…so you pray to ask for help to reconcile…

CANON 7. If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, as is expedient for us, or that we can be saved, that is, assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who makes all men gladly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray by a heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, “For apart from me you can do nothing” (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, “Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God” (2 Cor. 3:5).

How much clearer can this be?

Ask yourself this question…

While in the state of Sanctifying Grace…What can I pray for, what do I pray for?

While in the State of Mortal Sin…

What else can you pray for other than the aid to be reconciled? Is there anything else other than you that God wants you to pray for at this moment in time? Is there anything more valuable than you that you can pray for to be of any use to God?

 

[pollynova]

What else can you pray for other than the aid to be reconciled? Is there anything else other than you that God wants you to pray for at this moment in time? Is there anything more valuable than you that you can pray for to be of any use to God?

Like I said, I prayed for the people I love. Everyone always talks about how important prayers for people in Purgatory are. Were my prayers for my loved ones who have died discarded by God?

Or what about the prayers of someone who is say… practicing premarital sex and using birth control. They know the church teaches this is a grave sin, but they continue to do it anyway. But they still pray for their dead loved ones. Are those prayers worthless?

 

[CopticChristian]

Like I said, I prayed for the people I love. Everyone always talks about how important prayers for people in Purgatory are. Were my prayers for my loved ones who have died discarded by God?

Or what about the prayers of someone who is say… practicing premarital sex and using birth control. They know the church teaches this is a grave sin, but they continue to do it anyway. But they still pray for their dead loved ones. Are those prayers worthless?

Polly,

In the same Catechism of Trent it is stated…

How much clearer can this be?

Ask yourself this question…

While in the state of Sanctifying Grace…What can I pray for, what do I pray for?

While in the State of Mortal Sin…

What else can you pray for other than the aid to be reconciled? Is there anything else other than you that God wants you to pray for at this moment in time? Is there anything more valuable than you that you can pray for to be of any use to God?

Prayers are always heard, however, what you pray for may not be delivered as you request, rather what it is you need.

In mortal sin, when you pray, is what you ask for what you need?

I believe you know the answer.

 

[peace2u2]

Peace,

If someone believes they commit mortal sin is that sin mortal?

Coptic,

It is mortal sin if the “act of sin” is of grave matter, if its not mortal sin even if they think it is but falls under the category of “venial”, then its considered venial sin.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic,

It is mortal sin if the “act of sin” is of grave matter, if its not mortal sin even if they think it is but falls under the category of “venial”, then its considered venial sin.

Peace,

Thank you for your insight. I am thinking that if I imagine something to be bad and I believe it is bad, until I know it is not bad then for me it is bad. This implies ongoing Catechsesis to know and understand.

 

[pollynova]

I believe you know the answer.

No, I don’t know the answer. That’s why I am asking.

 

[CopticChristian]

No, I don’t know the answer. That’s why I am asking.

Polly,

God calls, you respond. The response to God is made possible by a call from God…Ok…

When you respond to God you learn about God and find God and hopefully you find His Church and hopefully you get Catechized and know that you are constantly required to form your Conscience. This is an ongiong act.

You learn Revealed Truths
You learn to live the Sacramental Life
You learn Life in Christ and model Christ to be Holy as God is Holy
You learn to pray for help…

When you responded to God, it may have been because of prayer that you wanted to know more…The Call of God is ever present and always there and your response or lack thereof is always possible. Your response to God is because of God, God helps you…and when you turn from God, God still calls you…

Mortal Sin is turning from God…if God always calls you, and to respond to God you cannot do it on your own, and it is God that makes it possible to return to Him…

While in Mortal Sin when you pray, God calls you back and you respond…whatever you pray for, since your prayers are always answered are answered in a way that is what you need not what you want…

If in Mortal sin, you need to repent=Change your mind and you do and you return then ask yourself this…

While in Mortal sin…I pray

While in Mortal sin, I contemplate repentence
While in Mortal sin, I change my mind and return

I, with the help of God, knowing that my prayers are always heard and I am always provided what I need…

What is the greatest need you have in Mortal Sin that would cause you to resume Life in Christ?

Put it another way, if Mortal Sin is spiritual death…then what can you pray for other than life that would do any good?

 

[michaelmas]

So the bottom line is this.

When you are in a state of mortal sin the only thing we should be concerned with is praying for repentance, forgiveness, and the courage to confess?

So to go beyond that like praying for the dead, the brown scapular morning prayer, the rosary as part of the little office, would be a waste? Because in a state of mortal sin our only concern is saving our soul.

If you were to pray other prayers, which i do and had been doing, would those prayers be more for you then the people you were praying for? For instance if I am praying for the poor souls would that prayer be turned into a pray for me to come back to God and seek forgiveness?

If one were to say an act of contrition would prayers be answered and heard? If you say your sorry and repent why wouldn’t they?

Coptic, If i am rehashing this out again I am sorry. I am personally trying to understand this spiritually and to explain such things to my children in a clear concise way.

I know poly is trying to get this answered as well and I am trying to understand. Coptic you are doing a fine job.

Thank you

Mike

 

[CopticChristian]

So the bottom line is this.

When you are in a state of mortal sin the only thing we should be concerned with is praying for repentance, forgiveness, and the courage to confess?

So to go beyond that like praying for the dead, the brown scapular morning prayer, the rosary as part of the little office, would be a waste? Because in a state of mortal sin our only concern is saving our soul.

If you were to pray other prayers, which i do and had been doing, would those prayers be more for you then the people you were praying for? For instance if I am praying for the poor souls would that prayer be turned into a pray for me to come back to God and seek forgiveness?

If one were to say an act of contrition would prayers be answered and heard? If you say your sorry and repent why wouldn’t they?

Coptic, If i am rehashing this out again I am sorry. I am personally trying to understand this spiritually and to explain such things to my children in a clear concise way.

I know poly is trying to get this answered as well and I am trying to understand. Coptic you are doing a fine job.

Thank you

Mike

Mike,

“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

We are to be like children, are we not…and sometimes what we ask for is not necessarily what we think it is we ask for…

In the middle east, poisonous sea snakes look like fish from a child’s perspective and a scorpion looks like a rock…

Daddy…look…fish, fish…and your Father keeps you from it
Daddy…look…rock…rock…and your Father guides you elsewhere

God is a good Father and gives you what you need…

If you ask you will get, but you will get what you need…not what you think you need…

 

[JonathanD05]

Short answer: Prayers in a state of mortal sin are not only not heard, but they’re actually “detestable”. Consider this scripture:

“God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.” - John 9:31

“It’s your sins that have cut you off from God. Because of your sins, he has turned away and will not listen anymore.” - Isaiah 59:2

“God detests the prayers of a person who ignores the law.” - Proverbs 28:9

“The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayers of the righteous.” - Proverbs 15:29

“The eyes of the Lord watch over those who do right, and his ears are open to their prayers. But the Lord turns his face against those who do evil.” - 1 Peter 3:12

 

[lexmil]

No, I don’t know the answer. That’s why I am asking.

Hi, I have been following the discussions here and your simple questions deserve what I would consider a simple answer. As a catholic, i have been raised to believe that without sanctifying grace, your prayers for the intentions of anyone or anything are either not heard or are not acted on by God. If you are in a state of mortal sin, you lose your communion with God. You have deadened yourself and your soul is dead in the eyes and ears of God. That is what mortal sin does. Except for prayers of lamentations and sincere contrition that you have wronged God and now beg for His mercy, no prayer for the dead, for your friends and loved ones, or to avert calamity and misfortune, or the intentions of the Pope and priests, etc, will ever be heard. Without first being remorseful and seeking reconciliation with God, no amount of rosaries, divine chaplets, litanies, or prayers will matter to God. And that is why many people who pray do not receive the answer they pray for. In most likelihood, they are praying in the state of mortal sin.

In a state of mortal sin, you are not even supposed to receive Holy Communion as this would be blasphemy and you would only pile up on your mortal sin when you do. If you cannot receive Holy Communion, then you also cannot pray with any efficacy, other than seeking God’s mercy. In the state of mortal sin, you would be blaspheming God if you even so much as pray the rosary or an Our Father. This is hypocrisy plain and simple. How can you invoke God when by your free will and knowledge, committed mortal sin? Someone told me, you would be violating the 2nd commandment of putting the Lord’s name in vain when you pray in the state of mortal sin. Christ Himself condemned the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, saying: “You serpents and brood of vipers, how can you now escape the judgement of hell?” (Mathew 23:33)

No amount of prayers will ever restore your sanctifying grace, other than a good confession. Hence, the very first thing to do when you know you have committed mortal sin, is to pray for forgiveness and to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation immediately. If you cannot for valid reasons, your sincere prayers of contrition may be heard and because God hears your lamentations, He forgives and only then can your rosaries, divine chaplets, etc will matter. Not before. To be sure, go to confession and do your penance right away to receive the sanctifying grace you lost.

In short, the only prayer that matters when you’re in a state of mortal sin is prayer of contrition. Nothing else, none until you have reconciled with God.

 

[lexmil]

Short answer: Prayers in a state of mortal sin are not only not heard, but they’re actually “detestable”. Consider this scripture:

“God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.” - John 9:31

“It’s your sins that have cut you off from God. Because of your sins, he has turned away and will not listen anymore.” - Isaiah 59:2

“God detests the prayers of a person who ignores the law.” - Proverbs 28:9

“The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayers of the righteous.” - Proverbs 15:29

“The eyes of the Lord watch over those who do right, and his ears are open to their prayers. But the Lord turns his face against those who do evil.” - 1 Peter 3:12

Now that’s even better said. Thanks. Had I seen your post before posting mine, I probably would not have posted my 2 cents worth.