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umamibella
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Why? Serious question. Do you not believe the science or in the reality of Covid or is it something to do with authority telling you to wear a mask.
Prayer request that police actions be held to accountability and transparency
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RuthAnne
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No, I do not.
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umamibella
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You dont believe in the reality of Covid?
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RuthAnne
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I don’t believe it’s a serious threat.
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umamibella
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What would you classify as serious?
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RuthAnne
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Certainly not Covid.
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Lee3
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Ok…fine. Then I guess that’s my agenda. I think it’s it’s a pretty fine agenda to not want totalitarian responses.Lee3:
There is your agenda.
Sydney. I’m not from a wealthy area and not from a poor area. There’s definitely no “senior citizens on ice” here though. Perhaps there is out at Campbelltown or Redfern, but these are exclusively limited to very poor socioeconomic areas.
Why else would he snatch her phone off her the minute she went to start filming if not for this reason?
I am glad that today’s it’s gained media traction and that there are other prominent people who also see sense and see how awful and unacceptable this is:
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umamibella
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You are welcome down here anytime the borders open but I have to say it is pretty prevalent in certain areas in Sydney, drug and alcohol addiction in senior and juniors. Cocaine use and alcohol abuse doesnt discriminate on wealth based metrics, nor does ice.
So that is no proof, just a guesstimation based on the popular conversation. Thanks.
Keep searching for prominent and normal people who say do the crime, do the time.
These wonen were at an illegal protest swarming with people and police. People who chose to protest illegally at the Shrine of Remembtance. A Shrine dedicated to our war dead. Age is no barrier to self before group. As far as covid is concerned, group should come first.
NSW is strugggling with its own outbreaks of covid.
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Lee3
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I don’t believe they should have protested at the Shrine of Rememberance.
This was disrespectful.
However, it’s not black and white.
It’s not the police having a word with the elderly women that people find an issue - it’s the heavy handed, disproportionate actions.
Especially when one considers the “under response” Vic police have displayed in some other circumstances.
No, it’s actually really relevant. I mention it definitely not to create ”distractions” but to make the point that if a person is going to agree with these actions, they need to be consistent and agree to them whether it is Australia or China or otherwise.
Otherwise people will just write them off as a hypocrite.
Of course. It happens all around the world. Look at the USA for example. It doesn’t make it right though.
This was sarcasm…
No, I was referring to the Sudanese crime gangs and the polices “underwhelming” response in this matter.
You know, I actually hope that you are right. However there’s the saying “if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck…etc”. The speed with which he snatched her phone, right at the moment when she started filming sure looks like what it looks like.
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Lee3
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quote=“umamibella, post:29, topic:624585”]
Cocaine use and alcohol abuse doesnt discriminate on wealth based metrics, nor does ice.
[/quote]
This is off topic but while general drug use itself doesn’t discriminate, the type of drug use does.
Cocaine is generally used by wealthy people as a recreational drug -it’s a expensive drug (Sydney’s wealthy eastern Suburbs Bondi + surrounding areas has the highest recorded drug offences in Sydney).
It is used by bankers, lawyers, real estate agents, models etc…generally the types of occupations that people who live in Bondi have.
The reality is poor people can not afford Cocaine.
Ice is the “drug of choice” (these days) of poor people because it is cheap. Along with it comes all the anti-social problems, violent crimes like you mentioned, and these are more prevalent in poor areas.
Sure there are exceptions, and sure there are some old people addicted to ice or heroin from “way back when”, but generally, statistically, overall most people when they think about elderly they are not associating it with drug users.
Maybe things are different in Melbourne but I can’t imagine why it would be…
It sounds like you are happy for your Premier to give police unlimited unchecked powers, even act without measure or rationality as long as it gets Covid under control.
For me though, this is scary and not a world view that I can support.
Leaders need to lead not through fear and hysteria.
The focus needs to be not just on the physical exclusively. To be just a case of we focus on keeping the elderly physically alive as long as possible but ignore their emotional needs, rights to dignity, respect, kind and fair treatment etc then what sort of a society have we become?
Cocaine use and alcohol abuse doesnt discriminate on wealth based metrics, nor does ice.
[/quote]
This is off topic but while general drug use itself doesn’t discriminate, the type of drug use does.
Cocaine is generally used by wealthy people as a recreational drug -it’s a expensive drug (Sydney’s wealthy eastern Suburbs Bondi + surrounding areas has the highest recorded drug offences in Sydney).
It is used by bankers, lawyers, real estate agents, models etc…generally the types of occupations that people who live in Bondi have.
The reality is poor people can not afford Cocaine.
Ice is the “drug of choice” (these days) of poor people because it is cheap. Along with it comes all the anti-social problems, violent crimes like you mentioned, and these are more prevalent in poor areas.
Sure there are exceptions, and sure there are some old people addicted to ice or heroin from “way back when”, but generally, statistically, overall most people when they think about elderly they are not associating it with drug users.
Maybe things are different in Melbourne but I can’t imagine why it would be…
It sounds like you are happy for your Premier to give police unlimited unchecked powers, even act without measure or rationality as long as it gets Covid under control.
For me though, this is scary and not a world view that I can support.
Leaders need to lead not through fear and hysteria.
The focus needs to be not just on the physical exclusively. To be just a case of we focus on keeping the elderly physically alive as long as possible but ignore their emotional needs, rights to dignity, respect, kind and fair treatment etc then what sort of a society have we become?
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umamibella
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Why do you, a sydneysider , kerp badhing Vic police? What do you think should have a bigger response?
I hope you are not calling me a hypocrite. I have worked closely with Vic police on different issues. Their powers are limited. Its also very frustrating when the courts system gives leniency to cases.
Australia is very different to other countries and should not be compared.
I am sick of , as are a lot of young adults, my kids friends, those not taking this seriously and doing stupid things like protesting and gathering on bondi beach and other beaches and causing this situation to go on and on and on, because that behaviour increases numbers, it does not bring them down.
Yeah , I forgot you are an Aussie.
What do you know of that situation apart from what you read in the media?
Watch some docos on the cocaine trade. Gordon Ramsey did a good one.
That is part of the problem, not associating drug and alcohol abuse with retirees.
Melbourne has a higher crime rate per capita then NYC. You are more likely to be attacked here, then there. What causes that?
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umamibella
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Onto my Premier.
This man has worked tirelessly since this began. Watch his press conferences daily. Dan Andrews is exhausted but not dropping the ball.
Dan is not interested in what other politicians in other states have to say. Dan is interested in stamping out the situation in Victoria and ensuring there is not a third wave here.
To say this is an issue with just the elderly is wrong. Young people are the biggest reservoir of Covid.Young people are getting sick and dying and dealing with its longer term issues too.
Does breaking the law give anyone dignity?
Also what age group are you referring to as elderly?
I will also remind you one of the readons that we went into a state of emergency because when police and contact tracers door knock covid positive people 80 of them were not home. Thats 80 covid positives out in the community infecting at least 2 others. Dan Andrews had to put a stop to irresponsible people with covid spreading it through aged care homes , hospitals and the general community.
You have an issue in one of your best hospitals at the moment. Concord.This hospital has some of the toughest disease procedures nationally because of its burns and burns icu wards, where the worst bushfire burns victims are sent. Yet Concord had to close for cleaning, has lots of staff in iso and still doesnt have all its wards back up.
Your premier needs to step up to the plate and start limiting the spread.
You guys also got problems like the Unity Hall Hotel and breaching rules. Do you think the pub should be shut down for 7 days because it breached the rules? That issue has sparked a NSW conversation about following the rules.
This man has worked tirelessly since this began. Watch his press conferences daily. Dan Andrews is exhausted but not dropping the ball.
Dan is not interested in what other politicians in other states have to say. Dan is interested in stamping out the situation in Victoria and ensuring there is not a third wave here.
Dan is doing the exact opposite. There is no fear or hysteria here. We all want the confidence to have Christmas with our families, see our young people, see our old people, and have a covid normal 2021. Life is not going to be like it was pre covid. But it can be normal so we can visit aged care residents, hospital (name removed by moderator)atients, our favourite breakfast places, and have the footy.
To say this is an issue with just the elderly is wrong. Young people are the biggest reservoir of Covid.Young people are getting sick and dying and dealing with its longer term issues too.
Emotional needs dont mean retirees should be law breakers. Is it ok for an old person to break the law and steal your car? Is it ok for an old person to vandalise your home?
Does breaking the law give anyone dignity?
Also what age group are you referring to as elderly?
I will also remind you one of the readons that we went into a state of emergency because when police and contact tracers door knock covid positive people 80 of them were not home. Thats 80 covid positives out in the community infecting at least 2 others. Dan Andrews had to put a stop to irresponsible people with covid spreading it through aged care homes , hospitals and the general community.
You have an issue in one of your best hospitals at the moment. Concord.This hospital has some of the toughest disease procedures nationally because of its burns and burns icu wards, where the worst bushfire burns victims are sent. Yet Concord had to close for cleaning, has lots of staff in iso and still doesnt have all its wards back up.
Your premier needs to step up to the plate and start limiting the spread.
You guys also got problems like the Unity Hall Hotel and breaching rules. Do you think the pub should be shut down for 7 days because it breached the rules? That issue has sparked a NSW conversation about following the rules.
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Lee3
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It’s not about some ”childish” Sydney vs Melbourne thing or a “ones better than the other” nonsense.
The public are already disillusioned enough seeing politicians-grown adults- acting that immature way… IOW, if Nsw police acted the same way (and believe me they have at times in different circumstances) I would say the same thing.
It can come across that way tbh.
I say anyone that agrees to an action being ok for one country but not another is a hypocrite.
Well, I agree with you there.
The Chinese say the same thing. As do many countries. Everyone believes this from their ”own wordview”.
Everyone believes they are justified in their own actions.
That’s why injustices are universal. They are still injustices whether police in Australia, or police in China, whether towards Uyghurs, or towards refugees on offshore detention…
It’s always unjust to cover things up/prevent transparency.
To say ”but Australias different, we are in Covid times”, any country could say this exact same reasoning for anything; ”but xyz country is different, we are dealing with…”
I’ve seen this. Apparently there’s a cocaine problem in the hospitality industry. It’s sad about Ramsay’s brother. Still, it’s no secret that Cocaine is generally a richer people’s drug, & ice poor people’s. I’m sure some police would say that same thing & if they want to deal with drug issues effective they need to start making those distinctions. This is a different topic though.
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Lee3
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It’s in the media that we hear the feelings of the victims of this crimes. Of course media has biases, but when you read those same things happening over & over again, and victims repetitively stating they feel let down by police because they are taking a “soft approach” as they are more concerned to be PC and not appear to be racist rather then protecting the public, what would you make of it?
If that truly is the case then doesn’t that concern you that there is some huge failing -whether with the police or as a social issue?
That’s not to be critical of Vic police but you have deal with reality. If one just blindly defends police and isn’t open to criticism + change, then issues go unaddressed and crime rates don’t go down.
If those attacks are due to drug affected individuals, then obviously the current police approach is not working.
And maybe it’s not even the police, because police can only take into affect what their government tells them to do.
Young people are affected by Covid but most of the deaths are elderly people, which is sad.
I consider elderly from about 65 years upwards.
Ultimately, it’s not an either/or situation.
It’s possible to believe in people being selfless and wearing masks & sticking to lockdown, while at the same time denouncing police overreactions.
Especially any attempts to intimidate persons under arrest or the witnesses to not film so to cover up/hide interactions.
USA is having huge protests against police brutality.
Police need to be receptive to change to build better relationships with the public.
Anyway I give up - it’s getting exhausting now.:hugs:
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umamibella
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Yes and just look at how biased the media is here. Its the courts taking a soft approach, the same excuses over and over again. The crook gets off. The police get to go out and chase the punk again after he has stolen and torched his 10th car.
I am not being critical of nsw, but whats with the gang war shootings going on?
65 yo dont consider themselves elderly. My kids would agree with you though!
Nice to chat with another Aussie on CAF anyways.
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Lee3
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It’s just as bad. There is a lot of scary stuff happening.
Clearly the police haven’t been able to contain the bikie gangs effectively, and now there are all the middle eastern gangs either forming their own gangs or mixed in with the old bikie gangs.
There are middle eastern officers involved in arresting the criminals, but the criminals aren’t about to give up easily as they are the ones at the top of the ”ice supply chain” - shamefully living it up on the proceeds of others addictions.
A huge part of it is the lenient sentences from courts that you mentioned, but at the same time there also needs to be cultural change, because another one always springs up.
There needs to be a shift in the mentality that teaches these guys that they are tough and powerful by being thugs. Deglorify thuggery…
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umamibella
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It is scary if it erupts, it will impact Melbourne too, but give Underbelly writers new seasons.
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upant
Guest
for the intentions of @Lee3
HAIL MARY, full of grace, the Lord is
with thee. Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us
sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
HAIL MARY, full of grace, the Lord is
with thee. Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us
sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
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upant
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is that what sitting on a park bench is now called? not many protesters in sight.
not per the article, they can remove items hindering an arrest. this was obviously not the case. we don’t even know if the women were arrested.
sneaking up on someone sitting calmly on a bench is nice? good cop bad cop, I guess
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umamibella
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Upant what is missed in that cropped photo is the protest going on behind them. There are other photos of this incident which show the protest. Yes, it is illegal at the moment because of our lockdown laws due to covid.
Lockdown has been a long extended process here and we are almost out of it.
The article is not a legal article, it is an emotive piece. Police have the powers to seize items linked to illegal activities. That includes technology linked to participating in or arranging these illegal mass gatherings.
There was no sneaking up, she knew they were there. That is pretty obvious. They were not calmly sitting on a park bench, they were breaking the law in several different ways. We cannot have one law for some and another for others. Resisting arrest is a pretty serious offence here.
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