Prayer to Mary...but not for intersession?

[kedera]

Lastly, you are obviously humble enough to ask sincere questions. This will take you a long way. God bless you.

I appreciate that Conciliar, thankyou

 

[1ke]

I appreciate that Conciliar, thankyou

Did we answer your questions Kedera?

It’s kind of like when you go to a foreign country and you don’t understand things they do or say. Catholicism is it’s own culture and heritage going back 2000 years. It’s an entire way of life. So, when you don’t have the background then individual things can seem odd. But, taken in the full context of the Faith it’s not at all.

Sort of like looking at the back of a woven tapestry… it looks like a jumbled mess. But, turn it over and a beautiful, coherent picture is presented.

I converted 15 years ago. You do grow in your spirituality and understanding the more you are enveloped in the entire Faith.

 

[djrakowski]

Why are all the “excessive” prayers to Mary not addressed by the magisterium or Pope?

It appears that they do, indeed approve of these "excessive prayers to Mary.

I wasn’t aware that the popes had to answer for every practice of every Catholic. There are, after all, 1 billion people in the Church, and I imagine it would be quite a significant job to watch everything said by every one of them.

Furthermore, I said that it is my opinion that the prayer contains excessive language. And, since it is a private devotion, Catholics aren’t bound to believe in or adhere to the words of that prayer.

 

[water]

John the Baptist, Lu 7:28 - I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

John (disciple whom Jesus loved), David(a man after God’s own heart) Peter, Paul, etc…

You explained to yourself. Where is Virgin Mary right now? She’s in Heaven!!! If the least in Heaven is greater than John, then what do you think of Virgin Mary …comparing to all of those on Earth?

I do not believe anyone can know. Paul WAS there but was not allowed to speak of heaven. Do you have an inside contact in heaven to claim what she can do?

Jesus does not say Barney the purple dinosaur can’t do miracles either. So?

Pagans also believe their “gods” grant intercession and miracles too.

There are the Holy Spirit, the Church, the Faith, the people, the power of prayer, the communion of Saints. For this, we know and believe what we believe.

2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness

Agreed, and for this, you lower the work of the Holy Spirit who can guide the Church. You put the power of Satan over God then.

Again, I repeat myself: there are the Holy Spirit, the Church, the Faith, the people, the power of prayer, the communion of Saints. For this, we know and believe what we believe.

 

[1ke]

Pagans also believe their “gods” grant intercession and miracles too.

What pagans believe is irrelevant. The One, True God is the authentic God and he DOES grant intercession and perform miracles.

Do you deny God performs miracles?

 

[Church_Militant]

2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness

Perhaps all you n-Cs/a-Cs should have considered that before you climbed on that wagon with all those errant post-reformation new winds of doctrine from whence all the other errors of n-C belief seem to cascade.

If you don’t like the prayer, don’t pray it. It is an expression of one person’s devotion and knowing him as well as many of us do I have no doubt of his faith in and love for Christ.

One thing that I see consistently in n-Cs is this fear of anything that might infer that someone other than God is active in our world and lives.

If the saints and angels are so dangerous to God’s glory, then why does God have and use angels for so many missions? Is God incapable? Of course not! Is He lazy? Stupid thought!

Yet the Word of God shows us again and again that God works through angels and even the departed spirits of saints. Consider that God apparently allowed Samuel the prophet to appear to Saul .
Now I’ve seen n-Cs speculate that that was not Samuel but a demon, but that doesn’t hold water because even that spirit spoke a word from the Lord to Saul. What is the scriptural test of any prophecy, it gives glory to God and comes to pass. Both of which occurred in this case, so that seems to blow the idea that the witch of Endor summoned a demon. If one believes that God does not use His angels and saints then somehow one has lost a very important part of the teachings in the Word of God. There is a very long history of the intercession of the saints and their ministry to the Church Militant here on Earth.

Why can’t Mary assist us the way John Paul II infers?

How easily we tend to forget the verse from the Nicene Creed that says…
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I doesn’t seem to ask for intersession, except for the part about Teach, lead and guide me to Jesus…The rest seems to ask for Mary to act on her own. The, Possess my soul. Take over my entire personality and life part, throws me. This isn’t intersession.

You have your own life, don’t you? You make decisions for yourself, don’t you? You act on your own, don’t you? That’s because you are an individual person, isn’t it? Mary is also an individual person. All the Saints are individual persons. The only difference between you and them is that they are in Heaven and you are on Earth. That’s all.

Mary is alive.
The Saints are alive.

 

[kedera]

Did we answer your questions Kedera?

It’s kind of like when you go to a foreign country and you don’t understand things they do or say. Catholicism is it’s own culture and heritage going back 2000 years. It’s an entire way of life. So, when you don’t have the background then individual things can seem odd. But, taken in the full context of the Faith it’s not at all.

Sort of like looking at the back of a woven tapestry… it looks like a jumbled mess. But, turn it over and a beautiful, coherent picture is presented.

I converted 15 years ago. You do grow in your spirituality and understanding the more you are enveloped in the entire Faith.

Yes 1ke, this helps, I guess it just takes some time, and prayer to really understand some things…and it actually helps to hear counter arguements so I can address what my misunderstandings are or where I struggle the most

 

[kedera]

Perhaps all you n-Cs/a-Cs should have considered that before you climbed on that wagon with all those errant post-reformation new winds of doctrine from whence all the other errors of n-C belief seem to cascade.

If you don’t like the prayer, don’t pray it. It is an expression of one person’s devotion and knowing him as well as many of us do I have no doubt of his faith in and love for Christ.

One thing that I see consistently in n-Cs is this fear of anything that might infer that someone other than God is active in our world and lives.

If the saints and angels are so dangerous to God’s glory, then why does God have and use angels for so many missions? Is God incapable? Of course not! Is He lazy? Stupid thought!

Yet the Word of God shows us again and again that God works through angels and even the departed spirits of saints. Consider that God apparently allowed Samuel the prophet to appear to Saul .
Now I’ve seen n-Cs speculate that that was not Samuel but a demon, but that doesn’t hold water because even that spirit spoke a word from the Lord to Saul. What is the scriptural test of any prophecy, it gives glory to God and comes to pass. Both of which occurred in this case, so that seems to blow the idea that the witch of Endor summoned a demon. If one believes that God does not use His angels and saints then somehow one has lost a very important part of the teachings in the Word of God. There is a very long history of the intercession of the saints and their ministry to the Church Militant here on Earth.

Why can’t Mary assist us the way John Paul II infers?

How easily we tend to forget the verse from the Nicene Creed that says…
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

I agree. This is very helpful. I would understand and accept this, explaination, even If I were not considering converting.