Prayer to Saints in the Bible

[dmar198]

A youtube video here quotes this passage in support of prayers to the saints:

"Revelation 18:17-20 - And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, “What city was like the great city?” And they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and mourned, crying out, “Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste. Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!”

It comments: "In this passage, the men of the sea thank God for judging the evil empire of Babylon (probably symbolic for Rome or Jerusalem). They also call upon the saints, apostles, and all of Heaven to join them in their prayer.

This is a fine biblical example of calling upon the saints in Heaven, even some specific ones (e.g. the Apostles). Catholics do the same today, although we often pray supplications in addition to thanksgivings. The Bible supports praying both:

St. Paul says, ‘First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men… This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior…’
(1st Timothy 2:1, 3)
So we ought to pray in both supplication and intercession.

This means the Bible shows us that the saints of Heaven may be called upon to join us in our prayers. So we can call to them, ‘Pray for us!’ just as much as the men of the Bible call to them, ‘Rejoice!’ in Rev. 18:20, for both kinds of prayer are urged in 1st Timothy 2:1."

If this is true, then shouldn’t this passage be used more often to demonstrate our beliefs from the Bible? How many of you have realized that passage before?

 

[NotWorthy]

Personally, I don’t see how there could be very much biblical basis for prayer for the saints, because there really weren’t that many saints in heaven yet. I mean, Stephen is the first person we know of that was martyred and that was 7 or so years after the birth of the Church. James wasn’t martyred til 50AD or so and Mary’s dormancy and Assumption was roughly 56AD. These would have been the three most likely candidates for requests for intercessory prayer but Acts was already almost over by the time of Mary’s death.

 

[dmar198]

Personally, I don’t see how there could be very much biblical basis for prayer for the saints, because there really weren’t that many saints in heaven yet. I mean, Stephen is the first person we know of that was martyred and that was 7 or so years after the birth of the Church. James wasn’t martyred til 50AD or so and Mary’s dormancy and Assumption was roughly 56AD. These would have been the three most likely candidates for requests for intercessory prayer but Acts was already almost over by the time of Mary’s death.

Perhaps there’s not very much evidence for asking specific saints; but here, saints are addressed both specifically and generically. Pretty powerful, huh?

 

[NotWorthy]

Perhaps there’s not very much evidence for asking specific saints; but here, saints are addressed both specifically and generically. Pretty powerful, huh?

I’d like to think so. I’ll take a look at the video later this evening (my work doesn’t allow YouTube). I’ll also look at a couple of other resources on how the Church interprets this.

 

[StevenS]

I can pray intercessory prayers. My issue has always been when we ask something other than intercessory prayers of the saints.

e.g “pray for me” or “pray for us…” v.s. “…glorious St. Joseph, that no one has ever had recourse to Thy protection, or implore Thy assistance without obtaining relief…” -or- “O GLORIOUS St. Joseph, thou who hast power to render possible even things which are considered impossible, come to our aid in our present trouble and distress. Take this important and difficult affair under thy particular protection, that it may end happily. (Name your request.) O dear St. Joseph, all our confidence is in thee. let it not be said that we would invoke thee in vain; and since thou art so powerful with Jesus and Mary. show that thy goodness equals thy power…”

I’m a Catholic and always have been, but it always seems awkward when on the 1st hand we pray for a need and in recognition of God’s sovereignty, include some form of “your will be done”, but on the other hand pray for a saint to DO something other than pray for us. (I would be OK with “pray for me” or “pary this situation”…but does anyone ever think how Joseph (or any of the saints) would react if we were in their presence and said something other than “pray for me”?)

“…And thou, O holy foster father St. Joseph, do not abandon our children! Protect them from the assaults of the wicked enemy and deliver them from all dangers of soul and body…” Now who am I praying to? Who’s help am I invoking? I know St Joseph doesn’t have some power other than that which God could provide. Do I ask Joseph to ask Jesus for His will to be done, or do I ask Joseph to “convince” Jesus my intention should be granted?

St. Anthony, St. Anthony
Please come down
Something is lost
And can’t be found
I know this is just asimple child’s prayer, but who am I asking? I don’t ask for St Anthony’s intercession, just his help, right? On what basis can he hear me or read my heart??

Just some late night ramblings - sorry.

God Bless us all - we certain mean well

 

[MagicKirk]

Tobit 12:12 has the angel Raphael saying to Tobit:
I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead.

The passage provides Biblical support for intercessory prayer.

 

[NotWorthy]

I can pray intercessory prayers. My issue has always been when we ask something other than intercessory prayers of the saints.

Just some late night ramblings - sorry.

God Bless us all - we certain mean well

You know what’s the best things about those prayers you mentioned? If you don’t like them, you don’t have to say them!

 

[StevenS]

Except when I’m in prayer group and I’m the only one not praying. Regardless, it seems anti-biblical and against Jesus own teaching from what I read.

 

[NotWorthy]

Except when I’m in prayer group and I’m the only one not praying. Regardless, it seems anti-biblical and against Jesus own teaching from what I read.

Do you do things for other’s acceptance? Or for God’s.

Stand strong and only pray what you are comfortable praying!!! Anything else is simply vain repetition.

 

[CWBetts]

Personally, I don’t see how there could be very much biblical basis for prayer for the saints, because there really weren’t that many saints in heaven yet. I mean, Stephen is the first person we know of that was martyred and that was 7 or so years after the birth of the Church. James wasn’t martyred til 50AD or so and Mary’s dormancy and Assumption was roughly 56AD. These would have been the three most likely candidates for requests for intercessory prayer but Acts was already almost over by the time of Mary’s death.

Don’t for get about Saint Gabriel and Saint Michael (Angels)
St Anna (Mary’s Mother)
St. Joseph
All the saints in heaven form the Old Testament
All the persecuted Christians from the book of Acts that wer not named
The thief on the cross
All the Old Testament Saints

Just a thought

 

[NotWorthy]

Don’t for get about Saint Gabriel and Saint Michael (Angels)
St Anna (Mary’s Mother)
St. Joseph
All the saints in heaven form the Old Testament
All the persecuted Christians from the book of Acts that wer not named
The thief on the cross
All the Old Testament Saints

Just a thought

I know that. You know that. But the people in Acts wouldn’t have been too aware of this. These are the people of whom Christians wonder about their lack of prayer to saints. They were too busy figuring out this New Covenant Church that was dividing the Jewish Faithful so much.

 

[StevenS]

Do you do things for other’s acceptance? Or for God’s.

Stand strong and only pray what you are comfortable praying!!! Anything else is simply vain repetition.

Thank you NotWorthy. Of course you’re right!

 

[NotWorthy]

Thank you NotWorthy. Of course you’re right!

Before you praise me, please understand that I had a big problem with the Memorare.

This is prayed to Mary, “… To thee we come, before thee we stand, sinful and sorrowful…” What?!? I come to Jesus and not Mary!!! It took me a little while to get into my thick skull that I come to Mary with my petitions and she “pretties them up and packages them” with her prayers to Jesus. They are much more effective than me praying alone!!!

And sadly, I said it with everyone else, even with these doubts. Of course, now I can say it with all sincerity, joy, and confidence!!!

But the reason I can point out that you might be worrying about others is because that is precisely what I was guilty of!!! What do they say, it takes a thief to catch a thief? Well, guilty as charged.

 

[StevenS]

I wouldn’t “praise you” NotWorthy…Your name states it all, besides, my issue in this thread is my difficulty in focusing prayers and praise in the wrong direction! Which is what I sometimes imagine the saints in heaven being very uncomfortable with (if they “hear” our prayers at all).

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.