Prayer Warriors please help and others! Kids going on visitation

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Thanks for all your prayers and Mass intentions for the kids need it and so does Norma.

One of things that I wish Norma would consider is taking Luis out of Karate. The lady at church I talked with, who wants to help using Tennis, says that Karate is a violent sport and the wrong sport for a kids with anger issues. I agree and told Norma and reminded her that Luis has used his moves on Marissa many times. She corrected me and said it is Kung Fu not Karate and that he is not learning to hit anyone yet, but just the moves. Well, Luis uses those moves on Marissa and therefore dangerous, but she told me that the school counselor and the kids counselor say that it is a great sport for him. Everyone in our family disagrees for Luis gets away with murder with Norma and poor Marissa suffers the hits. She is getting aggressive too in defense. By the way, Norma is a stubborn person and I disagree, as all sisters I am sure, on some of her way of parenting. I think she listens way to much on counselors that are not even Catholic or Christian. She has been doing this for two years now and obviously it is not working for Luis still has his problems, but she won’t listen to her family for now. Pray for her, unless you think I am wrong.

I did have a discussion with her today on something Luis did yesterday to Marissa that left a mark on her body. I asked how she punished Luis and she said she took TV away after school. But Luis gets home about 5 pm and than does homework and goes to bed, so he really doesn’t watch that much TV. All I told her was that he needed more of a punishment for using his Kung Fu again on his sister and to tell her son that his behavior was bad. She disagrees and says that she must be positive with her son and not negative. She is angry at my parents who have to put up with Luis bad behavior and are not allow to spank him or punish him. My mom was so upset yesterday for Marissa and Luis did this arguing and fighting as my dad was driving them to the doctors. My mom just told Luis that his anger and fighting could make his grandfather nervous and they can get into an accident and be killed. Norma said that remark was too negative. I don’t know, I know I am not the best parent, but when my dd does something wrong, I let her know and tell her that it was bad behavior and than she gets punish and I stick to it.

Marissa came up to me on Saturday, for her and Luis spent the day with me, and said that her mom never punishes her brother when he hits her. She has learned to hit back and I can’t blame her. I told her that he mom said she would take TV away and she laughed and said, “She won’t!” If the other child is noticing this, so does the child that does the bad behavior and he will keep doing it.

Sorry to ramble on, but it is all upseting for Luis will never get better if Norma doesn’t swallow her pride and take advice from family who sees what is going on and how this child behaves.

If you are interested in how difficult Norma has it raising this child and the rest of us to deal with him, look up Oppositional Deficiant Disorder for that is what he has. She needs a lot of patiences and boy does she need prayers for this for she has a temper herself.

By the way, on Saturday, Luis and Marissa were with my dh and I all day and Luis was a angel all day. He did have some times where he lost his temper, but he knew what to do and walked it off. I told him how proud I was of him, but he just kept saying he is a monster. This is part of the Oppositional Deficiant Disorder. I can see why Norma doesn’t want to use the word “bad”, but I told her that his behavior is bad not him and she can tell him that, but she won’t.
 
my dear lady, I don’t know what to say. You have shared your heart with us. My heart breaks with yours over the plight of the children. I will pray for the children and your family. I will pray for strength and direction. I will pray for God to intervene in an act of protection for the children. I will pray for you as well, what a specially strong person you are to be their for your family.

God Bless

Hail Mary full of grace blessed aren’t thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the time of our death.
 
rebusrms said:
my dear lady, I don’t know what to say. You have shared your heart with us. My heart breaks with yours over the plight of the children. I will pray for the children and your family. I will pray for strength and direction. I will pray for God to intervene in an act of protection for the children. I will pray for you as well, what a specially strong person you are to be their for your family.

God Bless

Hail Mary full of grace blessed aren’t thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the time of our death.
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Thank you so much for your kind words. Luis again today lost his temper on my parents and called them bad names. He was terrible and at their age (71), they don’t need it. My dad suffers from post traumatic syndrome for the Vietnam War. He also has depression.

I did something today and I feel bad, but think I made the right decision. Luis had his Christmas program tonight and he just sings with the rest of the boys from grades 1-3, while the girls sing on the other side and the 4th grades do the performing on stage. Due to his bad behavior, no one on my side of the family wanted to go see him in the program. My mom told Norma that she should punish him by not taking him to the program, but as I know it is part of his music grade, but the school would have understood for they know of Luis’ behavior. I talked with Norma for I was the only one going until I talked with her. I told her that she should stay home and punish Luis and not reward him by going. She disagreed and basically told him that I and all my sisters and parents do not know what we are talking about. She yelled at me and told me if I go fine and if not fine and hung up. I did not go.

Luis disobeyed my parents and put his cousin who is 18 months old in danger by his behavior. He made a karate kick on Marissa yet again to her stomach. He called my parents, “idiots” and other names. All this is common for oppositional kids, but what are we all do to do punish him and stop this behavior before he becomes a criminal and society will punish him. I think Norma is suffering from depression and thank God, she has made an appointment with a psychiatrist for herself. She is not agreeing that her son may need a mild antidepressant. She is stubborn and still believes the psychologist in all they say. They say Luis should stay in Karate and we don’t. I wonder if Norma is telling them that he is using what he learns on people, mostly Marissa.

I hope what I did tonight in not going to the play was correct. What do you all think? I just feel bad for I don’t like to displease people at all, but I just thought she should have punished the boy.
 
I don’t know about the play thing; perhaps it would have been an appropriate punishment, I don’t know.

As far as the karate: I would speak to the karate teachers. If they are anything like mine, they will want to know if one of their students is using their techniques in a dishonorable manner. I know one of our dojo rules was to never use karate on anyone unless they attacked us first. I’m pretty sure this is a rule in all martial arts: never use it on innocents. Perhaps his teachers would speak to him about it.

Still praying for all of them.
 
pumpkinbeast said:
I don’t know about the play thing; perhaps it would have been an appropriate punishment, I don’t know.

As far as the karate: I would speak to the karate teachers. If they are anything like mine, they will want to know if one of their students is using their techniques in a dishonorable manner. I know one of our dojo rules was to never use karate on anyone unless they attacked us first. I’m pretty sure this is a rule in all martial arts: never use it on innocents. Perhaps his teachers would speak to him about it.

Still praying for all of them.
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My sister has mentioned this to his instructor and he has talked with Luis not to use what he learns on anyone at all, but he continues to use it on his sister when he loses his control.
 
My grandson i think i have already told you all this has A.D.H.D i bit like nana nephew is going through, i don’t know if it is a country thing (i live in Scotland) but they strongly recommend that there is no contact sports such as any type of Karate, any sport in this line, as it learns the child that violence is a good thing even if it is controlled, so i agree with you nana, he shouldn’t be doing this type of activity
 
Lord look after these children. Fill their hearts with your love. Amen.
 
I think I would suggest a different sport. Karate is good for self-defence but it doesn’t really give the kind of work-out that will tire him out and get rid of his aggression. (I watched my niece at her Karate class one evening so I know it didn’t get very energetic. Not once did they break a sweat.) Look for something that involves a lot of running like athletics, soccer, or basketball. Soccer would be better because it is a team sport and he would have to co-operate with his teammates. The point is to expend all that anger in the running. It will also generate the production of natural endorphins which will make him feel better without the use of anti-depressants. The thing they are discovering about anti-depressants in children is that they can cause the child to suicide.

I think Norma did the right thing in going to his music program. It wasn’t so much a reward as a necessity. He needs the support in this correct activity (besides it was a school function and part of his grades) and I do believe he is too young to understand the point the family wanted to make about his behaviour. I think he might be too young to connect the two. ie - bad behaviour = family not supporting him. In fact, I think it would be counter-productive. He might start to think that he has no one and it will alienate him and isolate him further from everyone. Remember, he is just a little boy who has not reached the age of reason and he is a big bundle of conflicting emotions.

I’m sure that when he swears at his grandpa or hits his sister, it is only because he is hurting inside and he wants to feel better. He has learned from his dad to make others feel bad to make himself feel better. He needs to learn a better way to feel good about himself that doesn’t involve hurting someone else.

Does Norma have a dog and if she doesn’t, can she have one where they are living? A dog would love him unconditionally. Psychologists are now learning that dogs are very useful in behaviour modification in a positive way.
 
Linda_Marie said:
Does Norma have a dog and if she doesn’t, can she have one where they are living? A dog would love him unconditionally. Psychologists are now learning that dogs are very useful in behaviour modification in a positive way.
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Yes, my sister has three dogs and has for many years, as before Luis was born, at least two of them. He also has a dog at his dads when he visits there too. Luis has been this way before the divorce. I know that was one of the arguements between Norma and her ex. He would want to punish and she made excuses for his behavior. I remember one time when he was about three years old, I took him from my parents house to his parents and I don’t know what set him off in the car for I was driving and listening to music, he started to hit and kick in the car. When I got to his parents, I told his dad to come and take him out for he was not. He hit his dad and his dad would hit him. How his dad handled it, I agreed with, but not the way he handled it once he got into the house for he kept hitting him over and over again. That was abuse and I told him so, but he told me to shut up. So Luis problem if it is ODD has been with him before the divorce ever happened. One area in which the dad is correct is that this boy has seen now a total of four counselors and none of them have been able to help. One counselor told my sister that she is not consistent in the punishments and until she does get consistent, he will continue to be angry and out of control.

Our family has put up with this now from the time he was three to now, he will be 8 this month. That is six years of anger and he is not better. Something is wrong. Is it the counselors, there have been four of them? Or is it the parents? From my research on the internet on ODD, it tells you that consistency is vital in helping the child with ODD. I think Norma feels sorry for him and just won’t punish him. Marissa, his sister, has told me that Norma will set a punishment for Luis, but he goes to her and hugs her and tells her he is sorry and he won’t do it again. At that point, she takes back the punishment, which is usually TV and he gets his way. It happens with us too, that is the rest of the family. He became angry at the dentist office when I took him and hit Marissa and twisted her arm until she screamed. They were fighting over a game machine that was there. I told him that he lost his rights to playing it and tried to sit him down, but his anger was outrageous and he didn’t listen to what I told him to do and locked himself up in the bathroom. Everyone in the office heard him. I was so embarrassed that as adult, I had no control of this kid. I got him open the door and when I got in he pushed me up against the door of the bathroom. When he got out just to get him to calm down, I had no choice but to allow him to play the game. He won!! This is what is happening also with my parents. We can’t control him or punish him for he won’t listen to the punishment that he gets away with whatever he wants to do.

The sad thing is that the counselor agreed that Norma did the correct thing in bringing him to the play for as she says a lot it is his “job.” Well, when he hit his teacher, he was punished and sent him. HIs job is to stay in school. See how Luis gets confused. He already dictates if he goes to school or not. I can’t tell you how many times already, Norma has taken him to school and he refuses to stay and she has to take him home to my parents. This should not happen. His job is to go to school and he dictates when he goes.

I may be wrong in doing what I am going to do, but I am tired of all this. My sister won’t talk to me now and was hurt by no one going to the play. She says it bothered her son, but I talked to him and he didn’t even know who was there. He said his mother was not there for he didn’t see her. I told him she was. She was the one hurt. Luis knows what he did wrong. He even told me that his mother wants everyone to stay out of her life. That is what we are going to do. She has already called her ex-husband and has arranged for him to pick up the kids from school everyday until she gets out of work at 5 pm. Personally, I would not have done this and he will use it in court if they go back. I will not ask her anymore for the bills to mail to her ex or keep the records for her lawyer to submit to the judge. She doesn’t care, it is my parents money. They are the ones paying for the kids medical bills that the dad has not. I don’t understand my sister. I would not allow my ex, who I knew would not feed them right and abuse them to care for them. His wife is a psycho and even the counselors have said that, so why after he backed off, bring him back in?
 
continued:

My parents and I have been there for my sister and we are tired of being told we don’t know what we are talking about. The counselor told her yesterday to keep Luis in karate and that if he uses his moves on his sister again, she would talk to him. He has been using his moves on her for three years now. Why wait anymore? Yes, I am angry. I am angry that she has closed the door to all of us and now it is the man who abused the kids and not paid child support in over a year, who will care for the children. The dad has a temper himself and Luis follows his example. In all I read in ODD, the parent or adult can’t lose his temper with the child when they are angry. He does.

I am tired and I give up. Please continue to pray for them all as I will too. Thanks to all of you for your love and support throughout all this. I appreciate it all and love each one of you. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for all your words of kindness and encouragement and all your prayers!! May the Lord bless you all.

Yes, I agree he needs a sport to make him run. He was in soccer for some time also. I hope my sister will give tennis a try with the lady who said she has helped many like Luis, but I have told her when and where, it is up to her. She told my mom yesterday that she wants us all to stay out of her kids’ discipline and the counselors and her will work things out.
 
nana3 said:
She told my mom yesterday that she wants us all to stay out of her kids’ discipline and the counselors and her will work things out.
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You will have to exercise some tough love here. If she wants you to help by looking after Marissa and Luis, you have to be able to discipline them while they are with you. If you are not allowed to discipline them, you have to tell her that you can no longer look after them.

She’s asked you all to keep out of it - do just that. Refuse her calls, refuse to look after the kids, refuse to help her in any way whatsoever, especially with your parent’s money. She’s on her own. That’s what she wants - give it to her. I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes that’s what it takes to get through to people. She’s made her bed, you have to let her lie in it and take responsibility for her own actions.

Continuing prayers.
 
Linda_Marie said:
You will have to exercise some tough love here. If she wants you to help by looking after Marissa and Luis, you have to be able to discipline them while they are with you. If you are not allowed to discipline them, you have to tell her that you can no longer look after them.

She’s asked you all to keep out of it - do just that. Refuse her calls, refuse to look after the kids, refuse to help her in any way whatsoever, especially with your parent’s money. She’s on her own. That’s what she wants - give it to her. I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes that’s what it takes to get through to people. She’s made her bed, you have to let her lie in it and take responsibility for her own actions.

Continuing prayers.
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You sound like me. I already told my parents that I am out until she ask for help again from me. I use to do everything on the legal side, plus keep a journal for her because she has no time. I will not do that anymore. I talked with my mom today and she said that she has told my sister that if they take care of her children and Luis acts up, she has no problem in spanking him. What can she say, but agree since she needs them. I found out that she has not yet called her ex, thank God, for one of my sister told her she would be a fool to do that. We don’t know if she is having my dad pick up the kids after school or if they are going to aftercare. She can’t afford aftercare but my dad said he would pay if needed. I talked with him and told him that if she said keep out, to keep out financially as well. My dad is a softy and won’t. My mom has tried to talk to him and he refuses.

I do have to confess of something I did that I thought was the reason Norma was not talking to me, but found out it is that she was hurt that no one showed up for her son’s program. She had asked me and the family to contact the school counselor about what is going on and to make an appointment. I emailed the counselor and told her about Luis using his karate moves on his sister and the fact that Norma is not consistent in punishing Luis. We all see this, but she does not see it at all. She was hurt that I wrote such a letter. The counselor called her and told her that if Luis should use his moves again that she would talk to him, but that she should consider taking him out. She was angry I told her this part. She also told my mom that she always punishes her son and we just don’t see it. Anyway, without my knowledge, dh called Norma today and she is so angry at me that she told my dh that we will not be going on any RV vacation. She had wanted to go somewhere on the kids second week of Christmas Vacation, but I really didn’t want to, but as it turned out the RV battery and other things went bad and it is going into the shop this Wednesday. They usually keep it for weeks so vacationing in it was out, but she told dh that she would not go on vacation. My dh and I pay for everything when we go on vacation. You pay according to the number of people in the RV at a campground and we just paid without her knowledge. We paid for it all even sites we saw. I don’t understand how she could be so angry at me. She said she is hurt, I am hurt by her reaction. I had two other people read what I wrote to the counselor, there is no lies or exaggeration, but the truth.

Thanks for your thoughts. I just wish my dad would be strong like this and give her some of what she is asking for. She can’t make it financially without our help. She is working two jobs and is not receiving child support and can’t make it. She is very stubborn. I know now where Luis gets a little of that anger, from her. Of course her ex is three times as bad, but having both parents with anger issues, will make an angry child as well.

Norma thinks I am saying that she is a horrible mother. I never said that, nor would I. She has made it through three tough years of hell. Luis’ behavior is enough to test the patience of a saint and he is much better than three years ago also, but continues to have everyone walk on eggshell around him including his mother.

I know my sister is stubborn and is now angry, but I do ask all of you to pray for her conversion. She needs a change of heart. That anger and resentment in her is not good for her. I have told my mother that I will not call her since she is the one angry at me and won’t speak to me. She will call when she is ready. I hope it is before Christmas for our children’s sake. My dd considers Norma family as part of ours. She drew a drawing of her family about a week ago in art class and it was us three and Norma and her two cousins. They have been around each other since birth. Luis and my dd are only 6 months apart.

Thanks for your prayers. I could use some as well.
 
One thing I thought of later was that Marissa should get Karate lessons too. Then she can defend herself from Luis trying out the moves on her.

When I was around 7, there was an older boy (around 9) in the neighbourhood who used to try out his judo moves on me so I really sympathise with Marissa. She needs to be able to defend herself. When Luis gets older, he could really hurt her.
 
Hello everyone,

Thanks Linda for your prayers and comments. Marissa has never had an interest in Karate. She loves soccer and other sports, but not that one. She is a tomboy.

Some good news: My sister and I are talking again. 👍 It is not like it use to be, but we are talking. We have not talked about what has upset her for she starts to cry over everything. I am waiting until she can get on some antidepressants. Luis has been sick all week with fever and we found out today he has bronchitis.

Marissa’s 11th birthday is tomorrow and is going out with her dad for a birthday dinner. She told me that her dad told her that he will not force her anymore to come with him or spend the night at his house. She said that was a great birthday gift, but wonders if he will keep his word for he has lied so many times to her.

Everything is fine. Norma is afraid to take her ex into the courtroom again, for he has yet to pay child support, for fear that he would force the kids again to spend the night at his house. But I think she will have to take him in for he needs to take responsibility for his kids.
 
The ex did it again. Marissa’s birthday was yesterday. Her dad wanted to take her out to dinner and than return her back home to my sister. Marissa agreed. He picked her up from school yesterday and took her to his new two story house in a gated community. (Yet, he can’t pay child support.) Anyway, he told her that he had to go to work later that night. She asked if she could call her mom to come pick her up and she did, but he went and talked with his wife and came back and told her that she will be staying the night and to call her mom, not on the cell phone for he knew she was out, but to leave a message on the answering machine at home. Marissa said she overheard her dad and Gayle talking and they said this would anger Norma. They are playing sick games again. So Marissa left a sad message on the machine that she will be staying the night.

Marissa came back home and said that she will never trust her dad again. She is so over his lyings and games against her mother.

Luis is now seeing another therapist, a behavioral therapist, and he clicked immediately with this man. We hope he can help with his anger. The therapist asked him what brings him there and Luis with all his therapy said, “I have some anger issues to work on.” Norma laughed for she was allowed to stay in the session. She said it went well.
 
I need your opinions and what you would do if you were in this situation.

Okay, the dad agreed to stay away and not force the kids to go over every other weekend or vacations. He has not paid any child support for months and owes from the past child support and was ordered to pay $50.00 a week on top of the regular child support.

Should Norma take him to court, taking the risk that this will anger him and he will want to see the kids again on a regular basis. She said Luis is showing some improvement and if he has to go to that dysfunctional family again, he will get worse.

What to do? If she goes back to court, he will get angry and she takes the risk of him seeing the kids again. What would you do?
 
nana3 said:
I need your opinions and what you would do if you were in this situation.

Okay, the dad agreed to stay away and not force the kids to go over every other weekend or vacations. He has not paid any child support for months and owes from the past child support and was ordered to pay $50.00 a week on top of the regular child support.

Should Norma take him to court, taking the risk that this will anger him and he will want to see the kids again on a regular basis. She said Luis is showing some improvement and if he has to go to that dysfunctional family again, he will get worse.

What to do? If she goes back to court, he will get angry and she takes the risk of him seeing the kids again. What would you do?
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Nana it looks as though it doesn’t matter what your sister does her ex causes problems whether she takes him to court or not, i would go for the money, she needs it for the children,your sister didn’t do anything about the money and the ex still did sneaky stuff, so i think regardless what she does he will do it anyway, it sounds to me as if he thinks (or knows he has the upper hand)
 
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