Prayers for Judas?

  • Thread starter Thread starter papaspicy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

papaspicy

Guest
In a conversation about All Souls’ Day and the Catholic practice of praying for the dead I was asked a somewhat shocking question: since our prayers reach God in his place outside of time and can be beneficial to people from the past, and if we can pray for all the dead, then shouldn’t we pray for the soul of Judas Iscariot? I feel pretty certain that I know the right answer, but I hadn’t ever thought about it before. Any comments?
 
papaspicy said:
In a conversation about All Souls’ Day and the Catholic practice of praying for the dead I was asked a somewhat shocking question: since our prayers reach God in his place outside of time and can be beneficial to people from the past, and if we can pray for all the dead, then shouldn’t we pray for the soul of Judas Iscariot? I feel pretty certain that I know the right answer, but I hadn’t ever thought about it before. Any comments?
Click to expand...
One of the great Catholic Church Fathers, Saint John Chrysostom, says that Judas is not in hell. He says that Judas hung himself in sorrow and shame in order to be able to meet with our Lord in the next world and beg His forgiveness.

Saint John may or may not be correct but it is a very generous thought and one we can share.

PS: I am not Roman Catholic but Orthodox and just happened to see your question. I have learnt in the Eastern Christianity section that the Catholic Church will not say that anybody in particular is in hell.
 
We should pray for all the dead instead of assuming they are either in heaven or hell. So many suffer in Purgatory because no one is praying for them, possibly believing them to be one place or the other.
 
Fr_Ambrose said:
One of the great Catholic Church Fathers, Saint John Chrysostom, says that Judas is not in hell. He says that Judas hung himself in sorrow and shame in order to be able to meet with our Lord in the next world and beg His forgiveness.

Saint John may or may not be correct but it is a very generous thought and one we can share.

PS: I am not Roman Catholic but Orthodox and just happened to see your question. I have learnt in the Eastern Christianity section that the Catholic Church will not say that anybody in particular is in hell.
Click to expand...
I would agree that nobody can know God’s judgments as per:

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

It is certainly made clear that we should remain non-judgmental, particularly perhaps as regards God’s disposition of persons. But by saying that Judas is not in Hell, isn’t one still declaring to know God’s judgments?

But if God tells us of someone’s fate, can’t we then know it? Or does the verse below not pertain to Judas, or does the word “lost” not mean what it indicates, particularly in context, as perhaps the opposite of the fate of the rest of the Apostles?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It would seem to me that Saint John is erring on the less-than-safe side of this equation, isn’t he? Can this type of what you characterized as “generosity” displace or interfere with a good healthy fear of God?
 
No one, but God really knows if Judas is in Hell or not. You are only to pray for the souls in Purgatory. If Judas killed himself with full knowledge, full consent of will, and with grave matter of commiting suicide to which it seems so abundantly clear in the Bible then Judas is in Hell. I personaly believe that he is because in my view the Bible makes it clear that he qualified for all three things. God speed.
 
In all probability Judas is in Hell as sad as that may be. The Bible says that it would have been better for Judas to not have been born than be where he is at now. Of course translations get mixed up and the exact words of what went on and what was said might mean something different than that. I hope Judas is in Purgatory.
 
JohnWilliams said:
I would agree that nobody can know God’s judgments as per:

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

It is certainly made clear that we should remain non-judgmental, particularly perhaps as regards God’s disposition of persons. But by saying that Judas is not in Hell, isn’t one still declaring to know God’s judgments?
Click to expand...
Hello John,

Are you saying that Church cannonized saints might not really be in heaven?

Hello all,

I agree with the poster who stated that if Jesus says that it would have been better had Judas never been born then I cannot see how Satan could ever be in heaven. It is certianly a good thing that a saint is born of the flesh if they eventually end up in heaven.

I do not know where all this modern Church talk that the Church, who has the power to know who is in heaven (saints), has no capacity to know who is in hell. Obviously Catholic Church leaders, back in the day, did not have a problem knowing Judas is in hell.

Anathema
In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: “Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment.”

He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions.

Quoted from New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm
 
I have a question…If Judas had not done what he had done would Jesus still have been crucified and died for everyones sins? Was someone bound to turn him over if it was not Judas? I dunno, personally I think he played an extremely important role in this earthly life. Would any of us exist today if Judas had not done what he had done?

Peace Be with you all,

Regis University Student
 
Oh and about prayers for Judas… I do wonder if he is in purgatory or smtg till the end of time. God is the ultimate judge and knows our hearts and our sincerity. If Judas killed himself so that he may see the light once again, who are we to judge of where he is? Is suicide a sure ticket to hell? Or does our merciful Lord make exceptions… Honestly tho, I dont know…just wanted to give my two cents!😃

Peace be with you all,

Regis University Student
 
perez639 said:
I have a question…If Judas had not done what he had done would Jesus still have been crucified and died for everyones sins?
Click to expand...
Scripture indicates that Judas did it specifically so “that scripture might be fulfilled”.

Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
perez639 said:
Was someone bound to turn him over if it was not Judas? I dunno, personally I think he played an extremely important role in this earthly life. Would any of us exist today if Judas had not done what he had done?

Peace Be with you all,

Regis University Student
Click to expand...
But was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
JohnWilliams,

Wow, great question! I dont know…do you have any ideas? Oh and thank you for the verses, they helped!

Peace be w/ you all,

Regis University Student
 
From the “Ask an Apologist” section…

Peter denied Jesus three times—which was certainly a personal betrayal. He then repented and asked forgiveness. But Judas betrayed Jesus into the hands of people who persecuted Him and put Him to death. What could be more evil? Judas then despaired and took his own life. That’s a big difference.

But even here, it is possible that at the last moment of his life, Judas could have repented and asked forgiveness. If he did, he could be in heaven, waiting for us. All things are possible in our Lord, Jesus Christ!

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=13026

AND…

Jesus said, “woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born" (Mt 26:24). While this statement seems to imply that Judas’s final destination was hell, we don’t know for certain that he did not repent of his sins before his death so we cannot say with certainty that he is in hell.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=82131
 
perez639 said:
If Judas had not done what he had done would Jesus still have been crucified and died for everyones sins? Was someone bound to turn him over if it was not Judas?
Click to expand...
I think most certainly someone was bound to betray Jesus, be it Judas or someone else. Who among us can truly say we haven’t betrayed Jesus ourselves at one time or another? It is a humbling reminder of our own failings…
 
That’s also a great point! What Judas did may even show that no matter how evil a deed we have done in our life God will still be merciful to us…
 
perez639 said:
That’s also a great point! What Judas did may even show that no matter how evil a deed we have done in our life God will still be merciful to us…
Click to expand...
Hello perez,

I do not understand your point. There is no proof or even any good arguments from scripture that Judas is not in hell.

Also, Jesus tells us that He will not forgive those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Jesus tells us that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or in heaven. There are also other scriptures where Jesus tells us who He will not forgive. WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All

What scripture are you using to make the statement, “no matter how evil a deed we have done in our life God will still be merciful to us”?
**NAB MAT 12:31 **

"Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven;** but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. **
**NAB MAR 3:29 **

But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is **guilty of an everlasting sin." **
 
perez639 said:
I have a question…If Judas had not done what he had done would Jesus still have been crucified and died for everyones sins? Was someone bound to turn him over if it was not Judas? I dunno, personally I think he played an extremely important role in this earthly life. Would any of us exist today if Judas had not done what he had done?

Peace Be with you all,

Regis University Student
Click to expand...
Hello perez,

When you read through the new testament I think it is clear that from the miricle at the wedding feast at Cana, the race was on. How long could Jesus preach and teach before He was murdered. Through out the New Testament the religious leaders were trying to kill Him. The religious leaders wanted Jesus dead. This would have happened with or without Judas’ help. It was quite handy for the religious leaders, however, to have one of Christ’s chosen twelve to help them to murder Him.
 
I never understood the hatred of Judas. He was misguided like many, thinking the changes would be on earth and not in heaven (or maybe like many of us, he wanted it to be that way) Jesus knew he’d do it, he told him to do it “quickly”, anyone in that mind set would think, “hey maybe this will work out”. Obviously the man was deeply remoursed, In “Matthew” chapter 27, it says he regret his action deeply.He said he did wrong to deliver up an innocent man. When they rebuffed him, he threw the money and left. Then he hanged himself. Does that sound like the awful man so many make him out to be? I know people that in deep despair killed themselves and did less than Judas…remourse without the faith is terrible. I can’t imagine that if he saw Jesus face to face, he wouldn’t of said he was sorry…of course I will never know on earth, but I hope so. Even the Great John Paul ll (in Crossing the Threshold of Hope)held out hope and didn’t demonize him the way others have.
 
Steven_Merten said:
Anathema
In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: “Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment.”

He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions.

Quoted from New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm
Click to expand...
From the same article:

**Still the anathema maranatha is a censure from which the criminal may be absolved; although he is delivered to Satan and his angels, the Church, in virtue of the Power of the Keys, can receive him once more into the communion of the faithful. **
 
OK, I remember hearing from somewhere that Judas was the “son of perdition” and that this designation marked him as incapable of salvation. Has anyone else heard this?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top