Umm…
Look… Augustine said that those who claim Mary was born in sin demean Christ. I said the same thing, and LittleSoldier called me an embarassment for saying it.
See the connection? Its a direct parallel. It fits the rules of logic and reason.
You said it as if she had read Augustine and disagreed with him. I highly doubt that is the case.
No I didn’t leave out a word. The sentence is pretty clear. Go back and re-read it.
Here is a copy and paste of your exact wording: “because to say should would be born” I find that confusing. “Should would”?
Did you understand the section I quoted from Hahn’s book? It says the same thing.
The Marian doctrines are Christological, and if you deny the Marian doctrines you ultimately detract from Christ. (another way of saying the same thing).
Again, I think you are missing the point.
Calling someone an embarassment for typing isn’t an attempt to silence them?
I think I see the problem. Nowhere did LittleSoldier call you an embarrassment (for typing or for any other reason). If you will re-read the post, you will see she called your *statement, *not *you personally *that.
I am glad you say the opposite. Is your understanding of the issue complete.
I think we may be talking past each other.
This is PURE conjecture. However, it is a valid form of argumentation, and for an apologist or theologian totally within bounds. But asking a question is NOT professing Church teaching.
Which is what I’ve been saying all along. I only said God had options.
Sure. He is making an interesting argument. It is one that he is making. It is an apologetic argument, surely not a theological statement, and it is an argument of his own invention I think (because I haven’t seen it anywhere else). Of course its possible I missed it.
But DO NOT confuse apologetics with Mariology or Church teaching. Apologists make arguments for the faith.
I’m not. I don’t understand why you think I am.
Poor Mr. Akin! You have taken him entirely out of context!
Look. Mr. Akin was making an apologetic argument and asking a theological question at the same time. It is clear from the context of his statement.
He wasn’t professing Marian dogma or Church teaching per se here!
My goodness! I essentially proposed an answer Jimmy Akin’s question and got smashed for it?
Do you really think I’m trying to “smash” you? I’m not, you know.
I didn’t take Akin out of context because I used what he said as an example. He spoke of a hypothetical situation, an option God could have chosen, and gave a reason why God could have chosen it—exactly what I (and I believe LittleSoldier too) have said. Nowhere did either of us say it is church teaching that God actually did other than what He chose to do (for some strange reason, you seem to think we have). God can choose to do whatever He pleases, and it could have pleased Him to bring Christ into the world in some other way.
This all boils down to the definition of “necessary.”
We’re saying it wasn’t necessary for God to bring Christ into the world the way He did* because nothing is impossible for God. He is therefore capable of bringing a person into the world in many different ways*. Look at it this way: The Father didn’t necessarily have to have Jesus even be born because He could have brought him into the world as an immediate adult. It is something God has the power and ability to do. Because God has the power and ability, it was an option. If He had had no options,
then it would have been absolutely necessary for Him to do it the way He did because it would have been impossible for Him to do otherwise. That’s all.
You seem to be saying it was necessary because God would choose only the best way to do something, and since that is the way He chose, it was therefore necessary. (Again, correct me if I’m wrong). While what you’re saying is true (if, in fact, that’s what you mean) that’s a different definition of the word.
My definition: “necessary” means no other options were available
Your definition: “necessary” because God chooses best option (again, please correct me if I’m wrong)
I hope we’re okay with each other now.
